Why do so many stumble over imputed righteousness?

[heartwashed]

heartwashed

Because prior to Justification by Faith they were Justified the Blood of Christ and the Grace of God freely Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

In fact Justification by Faith is merely receiving and resting in Justification by the Blood and Grace of God.

We are justified through faith in His blood (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1-2, Romans 5:9).

So, faith is the avenue by which we are justified by grace and the blood of Jesus.

heartwashed

Exactly ! Christ shed His Blood for me before I had Faith.

However, the effect of His shed blood justifying you did not occur until after you placed your faith in the shed blood of Christ.

You appropriated His shed blood when you placed your faith in what He did for you on the Cross.

His shed blood did not apply to your sins before you placed your faith in Him and what He did for you; and you were not forgiven until you placed your faith in His shed blood.

No it doesnt, it teaches the very opposite

Scripture teaches that we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

And therefore faith is the avenue by which we enter into the state of being justified.

Therefore faith comes before we are justified.

Think of it in terms of cause and effect.

An effect generally does not occur before its cause.

Since faith is the cause and grace is the effect (we have access into grace because of our faith), I say that it is the teaching of scripture that faith comes before grace as a cause; as faith is the avenue by which we enter into grace.

Absolutely wrong, Faith sees spiritually Justification, Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, Justification isn't physically seen, its received by Faith which is a fruit of the Spirit.

This is a common argument to say that grace comes before faith.

However, scripture is clear that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2). Therefore, faith is the avenue by which we enter into grace; and therefore faith comes before grace.

Therefore initial faith is not the fruit of regeneration while it does come about as the result of being drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit (and therefore I can agree that it is a fruit of the Spirit); which (being drawn to Christ) is not regeneration.

Yes in that sense the Elect are Justified from eternity since Grace was given them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Indeed. Thanks for agreeing.

Thats error, men believe/have Faith because of Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace

That verse is from the perspective of eternity as I explained.

From time's perspective, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; faith is the avenue by which grace is obtained. And therefore faith must come before grace.

Thats error and works merit salvation

I gave you the scriptures on it...so, you are teaching that the scriptures teach error and works merit salvation?

Shame on you.

Yes but it has nothing to do with mans freewill. Man is spiritually dead until Gods quicken him by the new birth. Only the new creature believes in Christ.

Man is quickened in being drawn to Christ but not regenerated until he makes a decision to receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwash

We are justified through faith in His blood (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:1-2, Romans 5:9).

We are Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This Justification occurred before a person is born !

Now if you dont believe this, its impossible for you to be Justified by Faith.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

So, faith is the avenue by which we are justified by grace and the blood of Jesus.

Thats false teaching friend. Thats conditional Justification based on the sinners act !

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

However, the effect of His shed blood justifying you did not occur until after you placed your faith in the shed blood of Christ.

This is advocating Justification by your works, it denies Justification by the Blood alone while yet ungodly.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

You appropriated His shed blood when you placed your faith in what He did for you on the Cross.

His shed blood did not apply to your sins before you placed your faith in Him and what He did for you; and you were not forgiven until you placed your faith in His shed blood.

Again you condition Justification on your action ! Thats works

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

Scripture teaches that we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

Right and I took time to explain that to you. We are Justified by Faith because we were Justified by Christs Blood, Faith is given to see it, embrace it, rest in it.

Faith sees the object that Justified His People, the Blood and Grace of God in Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

And therefore faith is the avenue by which we enter into the state of being justified.

Therefore faith comes before we are justified.

False, one is Justified first by the blood of Christ, then later they are given Faith, thats why its written, The Just/Justified shall live by Faith Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Being made just/justified comes before and is followed by living by Faith, you have reversed it. Thats work, merit Justification !

 

[heartwashed]

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2);

We are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

That word "by" indicates that faith is the avenue by which we are justified.

That we have access "by" faith into this grace wherein we stand indicates that, like a car accessing a driveway by a road, we access grace by faith.

The road is the avenue by which we enter into the driveway.

You do not get into the driveway except you enter in by taking the road to the driveway.

You have access to the driveway by the road.

You have access to grace by faith.

You have to go down the road of faith in order to reach the driveway; which is grace (since you are now parked and ready to enter into your mansion which is at the end of the driveway).

 

[heartwashed]

faith and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to salvation according to Ephesians 2:8-9.

Therefore, in placing my faith in Jesus Christ, I am not performing any kind of work.

Of course Jesus makes an exception to this for those who insist that salvation is by works; in John 6:28-29.

For them, He says, if you are going to insist on being saved by works, the only work that will save you is faith in me.

But we are saved by grace through faith and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9);

Which indicates to me that if I am saved through faith I am not saved by works.

In John 6:28-29, the Lord is simply trying to reach certain people on their own level.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

That word "by" indicates that faith is the avenue by which we are justified.

Not before God. Thats works, merit Justification. The elect were Justified by Christs Blood alone, apart from faith/believing Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. What does by mean here ?

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

Therefore, in placing my faith in Jesus Christ, I am not performing any kind of work.

Yes you are when you think by doing that, it results in your Justification before God, thats a misuse of Faith.

 

[marks]

faith and works are mutually exclusive when it comes to salvation according to Ephesians 2:8-9.

Therefore, in placing my faith in Jesus Christ, I am not performing any kind of work.

Of course Jesus makes an exception to this for those who insist that salvation is by works; in John 6:28-29.

For them, He says, if you are going to insist on being saved by works, the only work that will save you is faith in me.

But we are saved by grace through faith and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9);

Which indicates to me that if I am saved through faith I am not saved by works.

In John 6:28-29, the Lord is simply trying to reach certain people on their own level.

Do you mean in the sense of "redefining" for them what "required work" is? Using their wording, but to point a different direction?

Much love!

 

[heartwashed]

Hi @brightfame52,

I suppose that we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I think that you are in denial of the plain meaning of some of the scriptures that I have presented to you.

I will pray that the Lord my be able to illuminate them to you so that you might see them in the light of the Holy Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Hi @brightfame52,

I suppose that we are going to have to agree to disagree here.

I think that you are in denial of the plain meaning of some of the scriptures that I have presented to you.

I will pray that the Lord my be able to illuminate them to you so that you might see them in the light of the Holy Spirit.

Hi, I dont think you understand Justification nor faith, but most people dont, you not alone. May God be pleased to open up your understanding !

 

[heartwashed]

Hi, I dont think you understand Justification nor faith, but most people dont, you not alone. May God be pleased to open up your understanding !

It would seem that understanding the Bible might get in the way of my coming into your understanding of justification by faith.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm not sure it's worth getting into chicken/egg type arguments. That seems to me to come under "striving about words." I think it's enough to know that faith, grace, justification, repentance all go hand in hand and are all given as a free gift to whosoever receives it when the Lord comes calling.

It's such an unspeakable gift and such wonderful gracious truth that we are justified/exonerated in the sight of God and that His righteousness is imputed to us, even though, as John wrote, we have sin and if anyone says otherwise the truth is not in him. "Blessed is the man whose sins are not imputed to him." The more I go along the more I realize how much I need it, because "in me is no good thing."

I think some just haven't really been taught or considered those scriptures before. There was a time when I hadn't, back in the day. (We grow and learn over time, and in some ways pay a price to do so...."Buy the truth..." "Count the cost...".) Hopefully there aren't many who would argue against the wonderful truth of what Jesus has accomplished for us, the clemency He bought for us wretched sinners. It can be a hard thing to get our head around....we deserve hell yet He has freely and unconditionally forgiven us and set us free!

This doesn't mean we are to use grace as a license to sin.....the bible says if we keep on wilfully sinning there remains no more sacrifice for sin....it is possible to be in danger of one's soul and fall from grace. It also explicitly says that if you go back under the Law you are fallen from grace. So it is possible to fall from our wonderful state of grace if we were to treat His sacrifice as a common thing and trample on His blood. But hopefully that is not the situation with most of us...because He's given us a new heart and conscience (as long as we let it become hardened by the deceitfulness of sin).

 

[brightfame52]

lizbeth

I'm not sure it's worth getting into chicken/egg type arguments. That seems to me to come under "striving about words." I think it's enough to know that faith, grace, justification, repentance all go hand in hand and are all given as a free gift to whosoever receives it when the Lord comes calling.

It seems you are minimizing something that is very vital, making the difference of one being saved by grace and or by works.

 

[heartwashed]

lizbeth



It seems you are minimizing something that is very vital, making the difference of one being saved by grace and or by works.

Again, being saved through faith means that I am not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[brightfame52]

Again, being saved through faith means that I am not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Not if you condition your salvation on your faith, you have defaulted to salvation by works.

Also Eph 2:8 doesnt say anything about being saved through Faith, but by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourselves, its the Gift of God. You even quote the verse wrong !

 

[heartwashed]

Not if you condition your salvation on your faith, you have defaulted to salvation by works.

Also Eph 2:8 doesnt say anything about being saved through Faith, but by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourselves, its the Gift of God. You even quote the verse wrong !

If I am saved (by grace) through faith I am not saved by works.

That is the bottom line.