And please dont say say it never happened
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion
Why do they hate being called Christians
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Hate propaganda is readily available on the internet. I think the word of a professor of history who specializes in the medieval era has more weight than a myth making web site with an axe to grind. No author is named and no credentials either. Again:mjrhealth said:
Myth #5
No pope ever called a Crusade against Jews. During the First Crusade a large band of riffraff, not associated with the main army, descended on the towns of the Rhineland and decided to rob and kill the Jews they found there. In part this was pure greed. In part it also stemmed from the incorrect belief that the Jews, as the crucifiers of Christ, were legitimate targets of the war. Pope Urban II and subsequent popes strongly condemned these attacks on Jews. Local bishops and other clergy and laity attempted to defend the Jews, although with limited success. Similarly, during the opening phase of the Second Crusade a group of renegades killed many Jews in Germany before St. Bernard was able to catch up to them and put a stop to it. These misfires of the movement were an unfortunate byproduct of Crusade enthusiasm. But they were not the purpose of the Crusades. To use a modern analogy, during the Second World War some American soldiers committed crimes while overseas. They were arrested and punished for those crimes. But the purpose of the Second World War was not to commit crimes.
Open your eyes. Bad things did happen, no one denies this. But they were bad things done by criminals and not sanctioned by the Church. You demonize the Church at every turn, derail the thread, and everyone wonders why we have to defend the Church against your pointless assaults. I notice you run from scholarly documentation in favor of comic book history.
If it's a war you seem to begging for, I'll give you one.
Pope says sorry for sins of church, notice it's for sins actually committed, not for sins invented by psychotic anti-Catholic bigots from where you get your information. The Pope is humble enough to admit real sins, and seek forgiveness, but when was the last time a Protestant leader did the same?mjrhealth said:
THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION
Disclaimer and statement of intent: Unfortunately, the religious "scandal score" needs to be evened up now and then, and the lesser-known "skeletons in the closet" need to be rescued from obscurity, surveyed, and exposed. I take no pleasure in "dredging up" these unsavory occurrences, but it is necessary for honest, fair historical appraisal. This does not mean that I have forsaken ecumenism, or that I wish to bash Protestants, or that I deny corresponding Catholic shortcomings.
Historical facts are what they are, and most Protestants (and Catholics) are unaware of the following historical events and beliefs (while, on the other hand, one always hears about the embarrassing and scandalous Catholic stuff -- and not often very accurately or fairly at that). If (as I suspect might often be the case) readers are shocked or surprised by the very title of this paper, this would be a case in point, and justification enough for my purposes of education. With that end and stated outlook in mind, I offer this copiously-researched treatise, with all due respect to my Protestant brethren, yet not without some remaining trepidation.
C O N T E N T S
I. PROTESTANT INTOLERANCE: AN INTRODUCTION AND OVERVIEW
II. PROTESTANT DIVISIONS AND MUTUAL ANIMOSITIES
III. PLUNDER AS AN AGENT OF RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION
IV. SYSTEMATIC SUPPRESSION OF CATHOLICISM
V. VIOLENT RADICALISM AND THE PROTESTANT REVOLUTION
VI. DEATH AND TORTURE FOR CATHOLICS, PROTESTANT DISSIDENTS, AND JEWS
VII. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
BIBLIOGRAPHY
THE PROTESTANT INQUISITION
All citations are from Protestant and secular scholars, so any charges of bias cannot be levied.
I know you won't read it because it's too long. It requires an attention span.
Just as it is unfair to hold Protestants accountable for sins committed 1000 years ago, it is just as unfair to hold the sins committed by Catholics 1000 years ago. But you think you get moral higher ground by stepping on our necks. You end up discrediting yourself.
BreadOfLife
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THANK YOU for posting this link because it encapsulates the historical lies about the Church that we're talking about.mjrhealth said:
in the article you lined, it says the following:
The Holocaust
Pope Pius XII never publicly condemned the Nazis' persecution of Jews, even when they were being rounded up and deported from Rome. His silence is partly blamed for the failure of Germany's Catholics to resist Hitler. Anti-Jewish Catholic doctrines such as the claim that the Jews murdered Christ were said to have ideologically underpinned nazism. Vatican officials allegedly helped Nazis escape Europe after the war.
This is laughable - even to a third grader reading a history book.
Not only did Pius XII save more Jews than Oskar Schindler - he was hailed by post war Israel as a HERO of the Jews for his tireless efforts in decrying Nazism and for rescuing endangered Jews. In fact, after the war - the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli converted to the Catholic Church and took Pius XII's birth name as his Baptismal name, "Eugenio" (Pacelli).
He would have been disgusted in your ignorant attack.
What an unmitigated crock . . .
Hmm,
now that we have determined that none of mens religions / churches are from God, whether they be JW, protestant. SDA. Mormons, Adventist, catholics or any other because they are all didvided by there "doctrines" and have all "sinned" against God and mankind, can we now get back to what Christianity is about, Jesus Christ....
now that we have determined that none of mens religions / churches are from God, whether they be JW, protestant. SDA. Mormons, Adventist, catholics or any other because they are all didvided by there "doctrines" and have all "sinned" against God and mankind, can we now get back to what Christianity is about, Jesus Christ....
BreadOfLife
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And that's precisely what the Catholic Church has been teaching for 2000 years, my angry, ignorant friend . . .mjrhealth said:
Please tell me explicitly what the Church has done to you personally that would cause you to hate her so much.mjrhealth said:
Were you abandoned by your father? That might explain your issues with authority.
Hmm, whether protestant or Catholic or neither, there must be a lot of Christians with logs in their eyes.
Me nothing , Its Jesus that she has being persecuting.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
And what has tyhis tyo do with it all
Saul,,,,
You remember Saul killing teh christians.
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Mens churches of all denomionation have being persecuting Jesus, for what they do to teh least they do to Him, from molesting children to killling Jews.
My Authority is God not men, He is my father whom,
Gal_4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
You talk about authority, why have you placed so many men between you and God, what do you fear He might do.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Dont need religon we have Christ.
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Not much truth in church its all in Jesus.
As another stated, I dont belong to any "mans" denomination protestant catholic or otherwise.
Yes, I know. Paul was always subject to the Church you despise. Then you quote from her book that was preserved and discerned by Catholic bishops. The Church is Jesus on earth and then you accuse them of persecuting Jesus when you don't know where He is.
BreadOfLife
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IF you were a Catholic - you were an extremely ignorant one - and THAT'S why you left. You've certainly shown your ignorance on this forum.mjrhealth said:
That is always the case with ex-Catholics . . .
No He was not He was subject to Christ and His church that you have replaced with your one than get mad at all teh others who copied you,
Yes I was ignorant than Christ saved me. Now I know better. Thanks for reminding me.
Paul was not subject to The Church that was the pillar and foundation of truth? (1 Timothy 3:15)mjrhealth said:
Paul was not subject to The Church that we are to go to when we have a disagreement? (Matthew 18:17)
Which church, in your EXPERT opinion is the pillar and foundation of truth?
Which Church should we go to when we have a disagreement?
Why do you always incorrectly spell the word "the" as "teh"?
What church did you allegedly attend as a Catholic and who was the priest when you attended?
BreadOfLife
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Actually - you walked away from Christ and His Church because you didn't understand it and was too lazy to learn about it.mjrhealth said:
Instead, you joined the heresy of the little "Generals" over at "aggressivechristianioty.net" . . .
What church did you allegedly attend as a Catholic and who was the priest when you attended?mjrhealth said:
It is incorrect to regard St. Paul as some kind of spiritual “lone ranger,” on his own with no particular ecclesiastical allegiance, since he was commissioned by Jesus Himself as an Apostle.mjrhealth said:
- In his very conversion experience, Jesus informed Paul that he would be told what to do (Acts 9:6; cf.9:17). (who told him to do what?)
- He went to see St. Peter in Jerusalem for fifteen days in order to be confirmed in his calling (Galatians 1:18),
- and fourteen years later was commissioned by Peter, James, and John (Galatians 2:1-2,9).
- He was also sent out by the Church at Antioch (Acts 13:1-4),
- which was in contact with the Church at Jerusalem (Acts 11:19-27).
- Later on, Paul reported back to Antioch (Acts 14:26-28).
- Acts 15:2 states: “. . . Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.”
- The next verse refers to Paul and Barnabas “being sent on their way by the church.”
- Paul did what he was told to do by the Jerusalem Council (where he played no huge role),
-- and Paul and Barnabas were sent off, or commissioned by the council (15:22-27), and shared its binding teachings in their missionary journeys: “. . . delivered to them for observance the decisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem” (Acts 16:4).
The Jerusalem Council certainly regarded its teachings as infallible, and guided by the Holy Spirit Himself. The records we have of it don’t even record much discussion about biblical prooftexts, and the main issue was circumcision (where there is a lot of Scripture to draw from).
- Paul accepted its authority and proclaimed its teachings (Acts 16:4).
Furthermore, Paul appears to be passing on his office to Timothy (1 Tim 6:20; 2 Tim 1:6, 13-14; 2 Tim 4:1-6), and tells him to pass his office along, in turn (2 Tim 2:1-2) which would be another indication of apostolic succession in the Bible.
The attempt to pretend that St. Paul was somehow on his own, disconnected from the institutional Church, has always failed, as unbiblical. Protestant frown upon institutions, but we Catholics rather like the Church that Jesus Christ set up, initially led by St. Peter.
Jesus just as I said
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
and His church, this one
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
So next time you want to see His church, just look out your window you will see its members al laround you.
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