Why do we blame God?

[gregg]

I don't see me as having limited information because I believe the fullness of the revelation of our Father is in Christ and that revelation is what always makes me side with Him... so yeah.. you're kind of right in what you said about me...

Blessing to you as well buddy....

robbie good job again GOD is never at fault ,why-he's the creator. everything that i have went through in this life or my life good or bad was by my choosing, and the things God allowed, the whole time he was saying don't do it. to except personel failure either brings repentence or strife :huh:

 

[Robbie]

Yeah Aspen... see every one of those questions is answered in my mind based on the simple revelation of who my Father is in Christ Jesus... and sometimes that answer is as simple as not trying to know God through a veil but to throw out the old and just know my Father through Jesus. If there's one thing I've experienced my whole life it's been both atheists and religious people telling me that's not enough or that I'm naive to make it so simple ... but the thing is... for me it is that simple. Because for me it's all really as simple as knowing my Father so I'm not really interested in becoming an expert in or defending some sort of theology or man made religion... for me it's simply to know my Father and it's knowing Him that makes me want to stand up for my Dad when I believe someone is blaming Him for evil... because that's not who I personally know Him to be... the revelation I've had is that He's only good even to the point that we've rebelled against Him and caused self destruction and He's done everything in His power to save us from ourselves... even sending His Son to pay the price for our salvation. Simple I know... but that's how I roll... haha

Blessings buddy...

Yeah Gregg... Good Word... He's Good... Good News...

 

[aspen]

Here's the bottomline: Despite the fact that

1. The ethics of the OT appear to teach that 'the ends justify the means'
2. Christian culture seems to promote that God doesn't have to follow His own rules and can still remain Good - might = right
3. God appears culpable in the problem of pain and evil in the world

I choose to believe that our understanding is limited, rather than God's character; however, I refuse to deny the fact that I am willfully choosing to suspend my disbelief when a nonbeliever points out these ideas.

Yeah Aspen... see every one of those questions is answered in my mind based on the simple revelation of who my Father is in Christ Jesus... and sometimes that answer is as simple as not trying to know God through a veil but to throw out the old and just know my Father through Jesus. If there's one thing I've experienced my whole life it's been both atheists and religious people telling me that's not enough or that I'm naive to make it so simple ... but the thing is... for me it is that simple. Because for me it's all really as simple as knowing my Father so I'm not really interested in becoming an expert in or defending some sort of theology or man made religion... for me it's simply to know my Father and it's knowing Him that makes me want to stand up for my Dad when I believe someone is blaming Him for evil... because that's not who I personally know Him to be... the revelation I've had is that He's only good even to the point that we've rebelled against Him and caused self destruction and He's done everything in His power to save us from ourselves... even sending His Son to pay the price for our salvation. Simple I know... but that's how I roll... haha

Blessings buddy...

Yeah Gregg... Good Word... He's Good... Good News...

Nothing wrong with holding a simple view of God! Absolutely nothing wrong with it. However, it gets confusing for me when you claim that you cannot understand how other people can blame God - I think it is a valid conclusion when you really choose to think about it in an unbiased fashion.

In any case, love trumps doctrine.

 

[Robbie]

I wouldn't call it a simple view of God... that sounds kind of shallow... I prefer it's as simple as knowing my Father and based on my relationship with Him... knowing He doesn't give evil... He delivers me from evil... I've had a lot of religious people try and make condescending remarks about that belief in a backhanded compliment kind of way, "Oh it's really nice Robbie that you're so simple about God but go ahead and be quite now why we really smart people figure God out" haha... whatever... to know my Father in the simplicity of His infant... to see Him and feel no fear but only a desire to be held in His arms by the instinct of recognizing Him as my loving Father because in the simplest way I see Him as my protector, provider and deliverer and the One who loves me. To me that's the faith I need to overcome the world. To become like a child... and most importantly His child.

 

[[email protected]]

Okay, Here's some more thoughts after some prayer and research, this is what I think.


I don't blame God for anything. I do believe that God "allows" things to happen.

I couldn't help but answer this one, after I stopped laughing !

You wrote a lot of pious baloney after your "prayer and research".
The funniest part is that you seriously believe the tripe you wrote.

The reason you don't blame God for anything is because you haven't been struck to the nerve by life.

It has to do with security and disaster and nothing at all to do with prayer and research.

You sit comfortably in your computer chair and write dribble based upon an academic process.
All of that melts away very quickly when life goes to hell.
WHEN LIFE GOES TO HELL.

Strike a man hard enough and he WILL get mad at God.

What happens then?

That's the land any real discussion will explore.

Only when blood and sweat and tears are spilled can a man get a real grasp of the subject.

Everything else is rubbish and naive fantasy from the mouth of school children.

 

[aspen]

I wouldn't call it a simple view of God... that sounds kind of shallow... I prefer it's as simple as knowing my Father and based on my relationship with Him... knowing He doesn't give evil... He delivers me from evil... I've had a lot of religious people try and make condescending remarks about that belief in a backhanded compliment kind of way, "Oh it's really nice Robbie that you're so simple about God but go ahead and be quite now why we really smart people figure God out" haha... whatever... to know my Father in the simplicity of His infant... to see Him and feel no fear but only a desire to be held in His arms by the instinct of recognizing Him as my loving Father because in the simplest way I see Him as my protector, provider and deliverer and the One who loves me. To me that's the faith I need to overcome the world. To become like a child... and most importantly His child.

Nah, I would of said shallow if I meant it. I said simple because Christ calls us to a simple expression of our faith - nothing shallow about it. Like I said, I do not question your heart or commitment - I just happen to disagree with you on this issue.

I couldn't help but answer this one, after I stopped laughing !

You wrote a lot of pious baloney after your "prayer and research".
The funniest part is that you seriously believe the tripe you wrote.

The reason you don't blame God for anything is because you haven't been struck to the nerve by life.

It has to do with security and disaster and nothing at all to do with prayer and research.

You sit comfortably in your computer chair and write dribble based upon an academic process.
All of that melts away very quickly when life goes to hell.
WHEN LIFE GOES TO HELL.

Strike a man hard enough and he WILL get mad at God.

What happens then?

That's the land any real discussion will explore.

Only when blood and sweat and tears are spilled can a man get a real grasp of the subject.

Everything else is rubbish and naive fantasy from the mouth of school children.

oh brother.....

nobody knows the trouble I've seeeeeeen......nobody knows the sorrow......right, RJ?

Yet, you have no idea who WK is or the circumstances of his life......nor is there a chance you would open your mouth like you did in your post if you were in person. Talk about 'sitting behind a computer'!

Please! Unless you know a person's story.....save it for Foxes' Book of Martyrs volume II

The level of rudeness just flies off the charts with a small amount of members here - sometimes I just cannot take it!

 

[Robbie]

For sure Aspen... sorry if it came off that was directed at you... I know you weren't trying to bash me... I was actually talking about my past experiences with other christians on this topic... you've been nothing but cool to me and I appreciate you buddy... know that = )

and yeah... that RJP thing was pretty weak... whiteknuckle seems pretty cool to me even if we don't agree on everything... that was really harsh and uncalled for to make all those judgments RJP... you could have just said when bad stuff happens to us we tend to get mad at God and I'm sure everyone here would relate for the most part... I know I would... but all those harsh judgments were worthless and pretty much did nothing to add to your point...

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I couldn't help but answer this one, after I stopped laughing !

You wrote a lot of pious baloney after your "prayer and research".
The funniest part is that you seriously believe the tripe you wrote.

The reason you don't blame God for anything is because you haven't been struck to the nerve by life.

It has to do with security and disaster and nothing at all to do with prayer and research.

You sit comfortably in your computer chair and write dribble based upon an academic process.
All of that melts away very quickly when life goes to hell.
WHEN LIFE GOES TO HELL.

Strike a man hard enough and he WILL get mad at God.

What happens then?

That's the land any real discussion will explore.

Only when blood and sweat and tears are spilled can a man get a real grasp of the subject.

Everything else is rubbish and naive fantasy from the mouth of school children.

I don't have to explain anything or go into any detail about my life. So, I'm leaving you with this.

 

[[email protected]]

For sure Aspen... sorry if it came off that was directed at you... I know you weren't trying to bash me... I was actually talking about my past experiences with other christians on this topic... you've been nothing but cool to me and I appreciate you buddy... know that = )

and yeah... that RJP thing was pretty weak... whiteknuckle seems pretty cool to me even if we don't agree on everything... that was really harsh and uncalled for to make all those judgments RJP... you could have just said when bad stuff happens to us we tend to get mad at God and I'm sure everyone here would relate for the most part... I know I would... but all those harsh judgments were worthless and pretty much did nothing to add to your point...

MY POINT is to try to get readers to focus on the real issue, which is real pain and suffering and not academic smoke and mirrors. Respondants seem to indicate that they prefer pretentious ideas to the realities of life.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

My purpose was to get ANYONE on track with a discussion about real factors which arise when a man gets hit to the nerve. When that happens artifical attitudes disappear like smoke in the wind.

Did anyone "get it"? Nope.

Looks like people are hung up on phoney words rather than the harsh realities of how to deal with really really tough situations. Was my post too harsh? Possibly, but so is life sometimes. No one has responded to that. If a few 'harsh' words cause people to trip up, what happens when things really go south?

I mean, after all, that is the topic of the thread is it not?

 

[Foreigner]

Wow, even your 'explanation' is accusatory.

I am sorry we do not measure up to your expectations.




.

 

[Robbie]

Hey RJP... if you lose the attitude you'll gain a lot...

But on a another note you reminded me of this crazy church story... it was around 8 years ago and my friends wanted me to come check their pastor so I cruised. So I'm sitting there in the audience and all of a sudden the pastor points at me and starts yelling directly at me, "I know where you've been, I know what you've been doing" and then went into some crazy judgments and basically telling me I was going to hell and I needed to be saved and stuff. I just started laughing at the guy and shook my head which made him look really confused... haha... afterwards I went up to him and introduced myself and let him know that I knew the Lord and that I worked at a church and the guy looked so embarrassed. The guy must have been used to my friends bringing in derelicts and assumed he could really lay into me and I would just crumble... haha... the ending result was the guy just made himself look like an ass in front of all my friends and wouldn't you know around a year after the guy got busted for cheating on his wife and lost his church which was pretty sad... I've met a lot of people that come at people all judgmental and stuff like that and for some reason it always seems they're the ones with the most skeleton's in the closet. Not saying that's like you RJP... but just being totally honest your harshness and judgmental attitude totally reminded me of his. It's like some people might fall for the, "He sounds angry so he must be right" but a lot of people will just walk away thinking, "That guys a jerk"

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

MY POINT is to try to get readers to focus on the real issue, which is real pain and suffering and not academic smoke and mirrors. Respondants seem to indicate that they prefer pretentious ideas to the realities of life.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

My purpose was to get ANYONE on track with a discussion about real factors which arise when a man gets hit to the nerve. When that happens artifical attitudes disappear like smoke in the wind.

Did anyone "get it"? Nope.

Looks like people are hung up on phoney words rather than the harsh realities of how to deal with really really tough situations. Was my post too harsh? Possibly, but so is life sometimes. No one has responded to that. If a few 'harsh' words cause people to trip up, what happens when things really go south?I mean, after all, that is the topic of the thread is it not?

:unsure: I love the, "I'm just trying to get people to think." attitude. As if any of us hasn't done it.

If an intellectual reasoning seems phoney to you, I don't know what to say. As many others have pointed out, you don't know our lives and what any of us has gone through.

As a matter of fact, the amount of suffering a person has gone through doesn't dictate their view on God at all.

If anything, someone that has experienced something painfull will try to reason it out, or reason out why they have a view they have. A reasonable person will try to find cause and affect.

My Grandpa was a great man. He was a true believer and follower of Jesus Christ. His life started out on a difficult path during the depression and with the death of both of his parents within months of eachother when he was 6.

Never once did I hear him blaspheme or blame God for anything bad happening to anyone. Never once did I hear him ask, "Why did God let this happen?". He survived WWII. As a matter of fact, he begged to go to church for months. His CO finally let him. That day, his entire team was blown up and killed.

He enjoyed life, and loved everyone. He never spoke an unkind word that I've ever known of. After he grew up he lead a good life. Good job, good money, good family and good friends.

So, tell me more about suffering and blaming God and getting angry.

My Lead hand at work just had his house burn down and has had many difficulties in his life, and lately has had a hard time with lots of things in life. But, he told me,

"I can get angry and blame God. But, that's not fair. How can I thank him for the good things and then curse him when something bad happens? So, I thank the Lord even now!"

RJP, you can get off your virtual high horse. Get out and talk to people. I'm certain if you could hear what anyone is saying over how awesome you are and how holy and all knowing you are, you just might learn something from your fellow man.

 

[Robbie]

I've honestly gotten mad at God when I was going through bad stuff in my life to the point to where I was telling Him to F off... but every time I've ended up getting humbled and realizing that He was the One delivering me from the problem and not the one causing it... then it's like, "Sorry Dad for doubting you again... and again... and again"

 

[aspen]

I can understand how people can get to a point of blaming God, but I think the purpose of life is to love and forgive and you cannot do that effectively if you are pissed off and looking outside yourself for others to blame (whether the blame is justified or not), so isn't it better to learn how to let go? If you need an example of forgiveness, look towards God.

 

[[email protected]]

If an intellectual reasoning seems phoney to you, I don't know what to say.
As many others have pointed out, you don't know our lives and what any of us has gone through.

You used a phrase I'd not thought of using; phoney intellectual reasoning. That is probably the phrase I should have used in the first place. As to whether I 'know' anyone's lives, I don't. That wasn't the point despite you're trying to make it so.

What I do respond to is honest, to the point rhetoric.
Dodgeball is not my favorite sport, but it seems to be played here a lot.
Case in point is the continued reaction to my statement, instead of addressing the point.
You're the only one that's come close to 'getting it' so far.

My Grandpa was a great man. He was a true believer and follower of Jesus Christ. His life started out on a difficult path during the depression and with the death of both of his parents within months of eachother when he was 6.
Never once did I hear him ask, "Why did God let this happen?". He survived WWII. As a matter of fact, he begged to go to church for months. His CO finally let him. That day, his entire team was blown up and killed.

RJP, you can get off your virtual high horse. Get out and talk to people. I'm certain if you could hear what anyone is saying over how awesome you are and how holy and all knowing you are, you just might learn something from your fellow man.

I highlighted a section of your post above; "Why did God let this happen?"
Now I know all about parents of a young kid dying. Been there did that and didn't get the damn T-shirt. So what?
Your Grandpa wasn't the only person to suffer such a loss.

I also know about WWII veterans. They came home to a stream of parties and parades that lasted ten years. I know because I attended most of them. They were treated like heros, but if you ask them they just say that they were doing their duty. When I came home at the end of 'Nam, you know what I got? People on the street saying, "F*** You".

Why did God let this happen? The WHY is a bogus question. The WHY will not change anything. Even knowing 'why' won't make any difference. There is no purpose and there is no reason. Things just happen. It doesn't make your Grandpa a hero any more than it made me one.

Losing a loved one doesn't make you a saint either. It just creates a hole that can't be filled, little kid or 'high horse' man it's the same.

Holy and all knowing? Jesus was that and they killed Him for it.
I don't pretend to be either, but I'm not surprised when objections are raised at efforts to address real issues.

If seeking truth is reason to be accused of climbing onto a high horse then somebody get me a ladder because I need to get up there.

 

[[email protected]]

Let me approach the subject differently.

Job was really angry with his situation.
Jonah got angry at God.
Jesus Christ hung on the cross, bleeding out his life and asked 'why'.

These were real men with real issues.

If any man ANY MAN, gets hit hard enough and deep enough HE WILL get angry at God.
In his frustration and agony he may even ask why.

Pious statements from anyone who claims to have never been angry at God are either false or are uttered by someone who's never been there.
Never been hit hard enough or deep enough;
like Job,
like Jonah
like Jesus.

Not to worry though. The day is coming.

My question; what happens then?

Are there any takers on this or will everyone persist in the illusion that it can't happen to them?

 

[aspen]

Let me approach the subject differently.

Job was really angry with his situation.
Jonah got angry at God.
Jesus Christ hung on the cross, bleeding out his life and asked 'why'.

These were real men with real issues.

If any man ANY MAN, gets hit hard enough and deep enough HE WILL get angry at God.
In his frustration and agony he may even ask why.

Pious statements from anyone who claims to have never been angry at God are either false or are uttered by someone who's never been there.
Never been hit hard enough or deep enough;
like Job,
like Jonah
like Jesus.

Not to worry though. The day is coming.

My question; what happens then?

Are there any takers on this or will everyone persist in the illusion that it can't happen to them?

I thought Jonah was simply afraid and tried to run away - I didn't see anything about him being angry at God

I think the entire point of Job was that Job remained faithful - he questioned God, but I don't remember reading he was angry or blamed God.

As far Christ.....he asked if there was any other way to avoid the Cross - there was not so He went.

Like I've said many times....I do not blame others for blaming God and I think He can take it.

blessings

 

[Foreigner]

My understanding was that Jonah was angry with God AFTER he didn't take the lives of the people of Ninevah. (Jonah 4: 1 -->)

 

[[email protected]]

My understanding was that Jonah was angry with God AFTER he didn't take the lives of the people of Ninevah. (Jonah 4: 1 -->)

That is the section of the story I was alluding to. After everything Jonah went through.....anger.

For the other questions......

And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry even unto death.
Jon 4:9

and more....

Examine the entire book of Job, especially the last several chapters.
There's a LOT of whining going on there, and for very good reasons.

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, WHY hast thou forsaken me?
Mar 15:34

Aspen said that he thinks God can take it, meaning all the human whining I suppose. That's a good observation of the process, but what if anything does God DO about it all? How does anger affect the human condition?

....and the big question.........is faith in God a prerequisite for anger against God?

Does an atheist hate God? Theoretically such a man cannot be angry at something he doesn't believe exists (then why use God's name in vain anyway.....and they do you know?)

If there is no faith in God, then is there no anger when things get rocky?
Wouldn't a man be better off never believing?
Job and Jonah were so angry they said they'd be better off dead.
Jesus was literally in the throes of death and had enough strength left to ask why. (He didn't know?)
Is it a natural thing to rail against divinity, be it the mythical gods of Greece or the One God of Judeo-Christianity?

After all, we really need to have something to blame besides ourselves, don't we?
When things go wrong for no reason, doesn't reason declare that someone or something is to blame?

Why not blame the Ultimate scape goat? Does it really matter if we do or not?
As Aspen said, God can take it. If so, then why not blame Him for all the crap in the world. He doesn't care anyway does He?

Or does He? hmmmm

Here's another question for the humanists who think that we are all part god or gods.
If we are part god, then why do we get angry AT SOMETHING ELSE (meaning God)?

....and a real bag of worms....
If we are predestined to live a certain life, then why do we get angry when God is perceived to screw up our idea of things?

Is anger sin?

 

[Foreigner]

.
There's a LOT of whining going on there.

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mar 15:34

-- Even if Jesus wasn't the Son of God, making an empassioned please to understand why His Father wasn't looking at Him, I think that any man who had been innocently tortured, been nailed to a tree, had his side lanced, and was being mocked by those who crucified him deserves a little slack.

I don't think Jesus was mad so much as confused and desperate.