Why do we just tell the natural Jews that God is going to spare them instead of ....

[afaithfulone4u]

giving them the Truth?
Rom 11:25
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
KJV

If they did not have to be born again.... like Jesus said, then what will be revealed when their blindness is taken away??

Keep in mind, saved to live again is not the same as inheriting the kingdom of God. And while Paul says he suffers and mourns for his natural Jewish brothers and wanted to reach as many as he could... so why would he be worrying if they are all automatically saved with out receiving Christ?


There are only 7,000 OT saints being DEVOUT Jews who will be saved by grace, all others MUST agree to receive Christ!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Keep in mind, saved to live again is not the same as inheriting the kingdom of God....

There are only 7,000 OT saints being DEVOUT Jews who will be saved by grace, all others MUST agree to receive Christ!

More BS.

 

[meshak]

giving them the Truth?
Rom 11:25
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
KJV

If they did not have to be born again.... like Jesus said, then what will be revealed when their blindness is taken away??

Keep in mind, saved to live again is not the same as inheriting the kingdom of God. And while Paul says he suffers and mourns for his natural Jewish brothers and wanted to reach as many as he could... so why would he be worrying if they are all automatically saved with out receiving Christ?


There are only 7,000 OT saints being DEVOUT Jews who will be saved by grace, all others MUST agree to receive Christ!

There are many, many believe that Jews will be saved in the end no matter what. It is not biblical. Jesus says we have to accept Jesus as who He is and ask for forgiveness of our sins and follow Him.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

More BS.

And more foul mouth,
Abraham's seed are all those in Christ. Why would God have the Jews in the body of Christ if they were to stay separated?
Why did Jesus say to Nicodemus you MUST be born again? Why does the Word say that it is not those who are of the carnal man that are the children of God being Israel and heirs but in Christ are the heirs?

See, you are wanting to keep the scriptures out of the picture so that you can hang on to YOUR own belief, you are doing yourself a miss-justice, for you are the kind that can be deceived because you do not know your Word, you oppose the Word to come to your ears. Do you know what the anti-Christ spirit is? It is one who can not accept the Word of truth.

Matt 21:42-46
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
KJV
John 3:3-7
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
KJV

 

[justaname]

Along with CRFTD I do not agree with the 7,000 statement. Also I do not know of any Christian who holds a high view of scripture that believes the Jews will be saved without accepting Christ. With that said I do not believe God is finished with the nation people of Israel (Romans 11:25) but I believe that portion of God's plan to be lived out during the last week of Daniel's prophesy.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Along with CRFTD I do not agree with the 7,000 statement. Also I do not know of any Christian who holds a high view of scripture that believes the Jews will be saved without accepting Christ. With that said I do not believe God is finished with the nation people of Israel (Romans 11:25) but I believe that portion of God's plan to be lived out during the last week of Daniel's prophesy.

Do you believe scripture?
1 Kings 19:18
18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KJV
Rom 11:1-8
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
KJV
Matt 21:42-46
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
KJV


Please do not misunderstand me to be against the Jews, for I love them and want them to hear the truth so they are not destroyed by those telling them "Peace, Peace don't worry God is going to save you" when we are not to fear what man can do to us but we must fear God, and we must be born again.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you believe scripture?

Do you not have any sense? It's really hard for me to believe that somebody can be so obtuse regarding something so obvious.

 

[justaname]

The Kings verse is about 7,000 people in that time.
The Romans passage is about the Jews in Paul's day that decided to follow the Messiah, in Paul's time.
The Matthew passage is speaking about the Gentiles coming into the faith.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

There are only 7,000 OT saints being DEVOUT Jews who will be saved by grace, all others MUST agree to receive Christ!

I have never seen anyone twist scriptures in such a convoluted fashion as you do.

You didn't even know about 1Kings 19:18 until the other day I posted it ...... and now you are trying to teach that the 7000 are some future people in some future event or something

i dont think your intention is to be a false teacher ...... I think what is happening is that every time some weird interpretation comes to your mind you think it is true.

Whatever the reason..... you are losing credibility at the speed of light.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I hope that things go well for them.

 

[Polt]

There are only 7,000 OT saints being DEVOUT Jews who will be saved by grace, all others MUST agree to receive Christ!

All who die apart from Christ will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. All who die in Christ are saved by grace. Everyone in the future you call a "devout Jew" will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

I have never seen anyone twist scriptures in such a convoluted fashion as you do.

You didn't even know about 1Kings 19:18 until the other day I posted it ...... and now you are trying to teach that the 7000 are some future people in some future event or something

i dont think your intention is to be a false teacher ...... I think what is happening is that every time some weird interpretation comes to your mind you think it is true.

Whatever the reason..... you are losing credibility at the speed of light.

Oh what pride of the flesh we are displaying here!!
I have taught on the 1kings for YEARS for God teaches me and I certainly have not ever read anything from you on it. So please do not be so prideful false pride that is to think that I learn anything or need to from you.
Do you know what it means to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

If it seems that the verses and things I say are hard for you to swallow, this may be the reason....
1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
KJV

All who die apart from Christ will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. All who die in Christ are saved by grace. Everyone in the future you call a "devout Jew" will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The 7,000 who came out of their graves as Jesus resurrection after the sin debt was paid to release them from death are alive unto this day as the Bible says they are and THEY are devout Jews in Jerusalem who will be saved by grace not becoming part of the body of Christ, but having the written Word of the Letter. They are the first fruits. And if they had already died and then came out of their graves and given new FLESH, then they did not enter into heaven with Jesus, nor would they go back down into the grave after God put His spirit in them as Ez 37 said He would. These will die in the earthquake in Rev 11:13 just after the two witnesses go up and just before the body of Christ is birthed and caught up. God has not rejected the natural Jews from coming unto Christ, but they must receive Christ since Jesus' ministry absolutely Correct. Please read CAREFULLY this:
1 Kings 19:18
18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.
KJV
Rom 11:1-7
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.{THESE ARE THE SAME 7,000 SOULS }
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
KJV

Here they are just after the two witnesses go up the 7,000 die to their bodies in the earthquake just as they came out of their graves in an earthquake at Christ's resurrection:

Rev 11:11-15
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

The birth of the son's of God come next and you will notice that after they see the mighty works of God being the EARTHQUAKE, they that are left in Jerusalem being called a remnant will not recognize their Messiah however they will go with the rest of the offspring VIRGINS who were not ready to make the heavenly hope and will go through the GT as they are learning to shed that flesh man being fed the Word.

Do you not have any sense? It's really hard for me to believe that somebody can be so obtuse regarding something so obvious.

Way to much flesh showing!! Get rid of it and ask God to open your ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the true church.

The Kings verse is about 7,000 people in that time.
The Romans passage is about the Jews in Paul's day that decided to follow the Messiah, in Paul's time.
The Matthew passage is speaking about the Gentiles coming into the faith.

Please read that it is the same 7,000 souls for He prepares our spirits to be worthy, not our flesh.
Rom 11:1-5
11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
KJV

This is saying that even NOW the same 7,000 of OT saints which must be devout Jews for all the rest are in disobedience are the remnant of Old Israel and are alive to this day! For we do know that all since Christ MUST be born again, with the exception of the 7,000 remnant of OT.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

.

Do you know what it means to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

YES .... it means you had to be right there with Jesus and attribute His miracles to the power of Beelzebub

Now you know too.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

YES .... it means you had to be right there with Jesus and attribute His miracles to the power of Beelzebub

Now you know too.

I think you better reread your scripture and include the whole of it:
Mark 3:28-30
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
KJV

You constantly tell me that I am a false teacher as in of an unclean spirit, YOU among others on here as well.

I have never seen anyone twist scriptures in such a convoluted fashion as you do.

You didn't even know about 1Kings 19:18 until the other day I posted it ...... and now you are trying to teach that the 7000 are some future people in some future event or something

i dont think your intention is to be a false teacher ...... I think what is happening is that every time some weird interpretation comes to your mind you think it is true.

Whatever the reason..... you are losing credibility at the speed of light.

Perhaps it sounds twisted because of your old traditions of men teaching before the book in the angels hand was opened up for our full understanding??
That weird interpretation is called REVELATION from God as to what HIS WORD means, not what YOU think it means.

 

[Polt]

The 7,000 who came out of their graves as Jesus resurrection after the sin debt was paid to release them from death are alive unto this day as the Bible says they are and THEY are devout Jews in Jerusalem who will be saved by grace not becoming part of the body of Christ, but having the written Word of the Letter.

Your religion isn't Christianity. Christianity teaches that Christ is the only path to God.

What is your religion, or church?

 

[veteran]

Apostle Paul did not define the Rom.11:5 "remnant according to the election of grace" to be 7,000 Jews. He only USED the 7,000 number God said He preserved unto Himself back in Elijah's days as an example.

Rom 11:5
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(KJV)

The remnant of Israel according to the election of grace that Paul spoke for his day, and thereafter, is an undefined number, it could be milliions for all anyone knows. And it definitely is not about Jews only, for they only represented 3 tribes of Israel per God's Word and history. Revelation 7 gave us a definite number for the very end of this world, 144,000 Israelites, and anyone who can read can easily see per that Scripture those are not all Jews of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. There are OTHER Israelite tribes mentioned there also, pointing to the lost ten tribes of Israel.

Per Matthew 27:52-53, it says many of the saints arose at Christ's crucifixion, and went into Jerusalem and appeared to many, and that is all. It does not say they continued on earth living in flesh bodies in order to die again. That event was obviously to show Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, and that His Resurrection happened right then...

Matt 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(KJV)

 

[Polt]

Rom 11:5
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(KJV)

The remnant of Israel according to the election of grace that Paul spoke for his day, and thereafter, is an undefined number, it could be milliions for all anyone knows.

Paul said at the present time of his day. These would be the righteous Jews alive when Paul spoke. Some had already accepted Christ, the others would soon accept Christ. You're right that Paul didn't mean 7000 just because his example consisted of 7000, but that is probably the ballpark. Paul didn't say anything about "thereafter", nor does the "thereafter" have any meaning in this context.

 

[veteran]

Paul said at the present time of his day. These would be the righteous Jews alive when Paul spoke. Some had already accepted Christ, the others would soon accept Christ. You're right that Paul didn't mean 7000 just because his example consisted of 7000, but that is probably the ballpark. Paul didn't say anything about "thereafter", nor does the "thereafter" have any meaning in this context.

Apostle Paul made no such limitation of that reserved 'remnant' being only Jews. The Scripture in question if you paid attention was addressed to Christ's Church among the Romans. The greater body of Jews in Jerusalem and even in Rome at that time rejected Jesus Christ, so the Rom.11:5 remnant according to the election of grace never applied to those unbelieving Jews (likewise as it is today also).

The greater body of Israelites were made up of the ten tribes. The Jews made up only 3 tribes (Judah, Benjamin, Levi), as the name Jew originated from the sole tribe of Judah, and was applied to the returning remnant of Judah, Benjamin and Levi from the 70 years Babylon captivity (per Josephus, the Jewish historian of 100 A.D.). Josephus said the greater part of Israel, the ten tribes, were still scattered abroad in his day, and were a great number of people, too many to be numbered. The Jews like to pleasantly omit the ten tribes scattered abroad, but God does not in His Word (Amos 9:9), and nor did the Apostles (see James 1:1).

As a matter of fact, when Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of the prophet Hosea to believing Gentiles, that Hosea Scripture is directly addressed to Ephraim and the ten tribed house of Israel. The scattered ten tribes were among the Gentiles in the west when The Gospel was preached and received there, which has very much to do with where Christ's Apostles went and preached to, including Apostle Paul in Rome.

But since most of the Churches today have been dumbed down by false Jew's teachings, I wouldn't expect many here to understand about all this.

The 144,000 remnant of Rev.7 is about a combination of Israelites of both the "house of Judah" (Jews) and the "house of Israel" (ten scattered tribes). It is for the final days prior to Christ's return, about God's sealing of His servants for the tribulation. Those represent a portion of the Israelite 'remnant' which Paul addressed in Rom.11:1-5.