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Featured Why do we need priests?

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by Pearl, Aug 31, 2019.

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  1. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Paul was no Gnostic, but gnostics have indeed abused the things he wrote and taught.

    Peace!
     
  2. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't actually sound biblical. More like a theory.
     
  3. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Thanks for posting this PJ - Enoch likes to misrepresent Catholic doctrine. I love his flip too - his distortion of history, as if it was the Catholic Church Is a crazy heresy that is trying to usurp Protestantism - it’s a pure case of naked projection

    Yeah, I do understand BoL a bit more when I read intellectual dishonesty by people who know better, but choose to misrepresent Catholic teachings that they could easily disagree with, without distortion.

    I am not LDS because, after reading the BOM, I received the burning in the bosom (at the time I wanted to join the church) however, my heart did not agree with my brain. I could not reconcile the BOM with history. It is an honest answer, without distorting the teachings of the LDS.

    I believe this is being intellectually honest. It would be refreshing to see posts like this about the Catholic Church - rather than all the National Enquirer submissions masquerading as love
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Since I quote from the Catechism, how can I misrepresent Catholic doctrine? Which means that Catholics deliberately and dishonestly misrepresent what their church teaches. Check out all the quotations and examine them for yourself. Catholic priests are literally RE-SACRIFICING CHRIST at the Mass, and that is exactly what the CCC says.

    To further confirm this I have also quoted from the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, which I will quote again below:

    Sacrifice of the Mass

    The nature of the Mass
    ...[It is] Christ, who commanded that His bloody sacrifice on the Cross should be daily renewed by an unbloody sacrifice of His Body and Blood in the Mass under the simple elements of bread and wine...

    The physical character of the Mass
    ...But here unfortunately Catholics and Protestants part company. The latter can see in the Mass only a "denial of the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ"...The Council of Trent (Sess. XXII, can. iv) therefore rightly protested against the reproach that "the Mass is a blasphemy against or a derogation from the Sacrifice on the Cross" (cf. Denzinger, "Enchir.", 951).


    The metaphysical character of the Sacrifice of the Mass
    If the Mass is to be something more than an Ober-Ammergau Passion Play, then not only must Christ appear in His real personality on the altar, but He must also be in some manner really sacrificed on that very altar.

    I could quote even more extensively, but these quotes should be more than enough. So are the Catholics going to continue accusing me of misrepresenting their blasphemous Mass, or are they going to honestly admit that that is exactly what the RCC teaches -- AN ACTUAL LITERAL SACRIFICE OF CHRIST BY AN UNAUTHORIZED HUMAN PRIEST AT AN ALTAR?
     
  5. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    What you miss, is that it is not a re-sacrifce, but one and the same sacrifice represented and recelebrated.

    It is the living Christ on the altar, the Living One slain before the foundation of the world,

    And neither is it a man who offers but Christ Himself who is both High Priest and victim.

    But you refuse to see ..

    Peace be with you!
     
  6. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Ask yourself what the OT priests did.
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Now you are playing semantic games. How can it be THE SAME SACRIFICE as what occurred historically on Passover in AD 30?

    There can never be another sacrifice such as that of Christ on that 14th of Nisan,
    when the day became unnaturally (and supernaturally) dark for three hours, and the veil in the temple was torn supernaturally from top to bottom.

    The Lord's Supper was meant to be a Memorial Feast, with bread and wine SYMBOLICALLY REPRESENTING the body and blood of Christ. But the Catholic Church rejected that truth altogether and branded those who believed it with the curse of "Anathema". And then they actually made their Mass mean far more than that. Read your Catechism IN FULL regarding this matter. Let's hope you fully understand the significance of what is quoted below (WHICH IS TOTALLY UNSCRIPTURAL).

    THE COUNCIL OF TRENT
    ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS
    DOCTRINE
    Being the sixth under the Sovereign Pontiff, Pius IV., celebrated on the seventeenth day of September, MDLXII.

    CHAPTER II.

    That the Sacrifice of the Mass is propitiatory both for the living and the dead.

    And forasmuch as, in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the mass, that same Christ is contained and immolated in an unbloody manner, who once offered Himself in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross; the holy Synod teaches, that this sacrifice is truly propritiatory and that by means thereof this is effected, that we obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid, if we draw nigh unto God, contrite and penitent, with a sincere heart and upright faith, with fear and reverence. For the Lord, appeased by the oblation thereof, and granting the grace and gift of penitence, forgives even heinous crimes and sins. For the victim is one and the same, the same now offering by the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross, the manner alone of offering being different. The fruits indeed of which oblation, of that bloody one to wit, are received most plentifully through this unbloody one; so far is this (latter) from derogating in any way from that (former oblation). Wherefore, not only for the sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities of the faithful who are living, but also for those who are departed in Christ, and who are not as yet fully purified, is it rightly offered, agreebly to a tradition of the apostles.
     
  8. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I really don't care to debate the above because I do respect the beliefs of the Catholic church.

    But have you ever stopped to consider the problem Mary's innosense creates with the idea of free will?

    If she was born without O.S......WHEN was the O.S. taken away?
    This is discussed by Catholic theology. Was it from the beginning of time? At conceptions? Immediately after conception? At birth?

    How does the above reconcile with her free will choice to say yes to Gabriel?
     
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  9. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Before or after the creation of the Levicital priesthood?
     
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  10. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hello Enoch,
    Because it is the One loaf that Jesus broke and gave to His apostles. It is the One cup that Jesus blessed, 'when the hour had come'.
    ' you are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizadek'

    I dont know how else I can explain it to you, but I will pray for your understanding.

    Peace be with you!
     
  11. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    She had the same freewill choice as Eve. To obey, or not to obey. God did not force Himself on her.

    Peace!
     
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  12. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    It's not the same PJ.
    But, I don't think this should be debated.
     
  13. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    What was the bread and wine Melchizedek gave Abraham?

    Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
    19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
     
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  14. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi Pearl,

    The English term “priest” is a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.”

    Priest have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments (laying on of hands) in a given congregation. A FEW examples of what they do and are responsible for are in 1 Timothy 5:17, 4:14; James 5:14–15.

    Ignatius of Antioch, a student of the Apostle John, spoke of presbyters in 110AD and referred to them as being "in the place of the council of the apostles". That means approximately 80 years after the crucifixion of Christ the priest's were considered successors to the Apostles.

    Hope that helps.....Mary
     
  15. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi Willie,

    The English term “priest” is a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.”

    Mary
     
  16. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    1 John 2:27 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
     
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  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Amen Pearl, We can now go boldly before His throne, we need no human being to be the intercessor because we now have direct access through Jesus.
     
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  18. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Sooooooo your theory is if you quote a ex-communicated priest who alleged bizarre conspiracy theories and misrepresented the CC then that is evidence that the CC is evil? Wrong?

    I like your theory........Can I start quoting current Priest's who used to be Protestant as my evidence against you and your ilk???

    Keeping it real.....Mary
     
  19. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi Nancy,

    From whom did you get the table of contents for your bible? Man or direct revelation?

    James 5:14-16 is rife with intercessor's.

    When I pray for you I am an intercessor.

    Soooo I am trying to figure out what you mean when you say "we need no human being to be the intercessor".



    Mary
     
  20. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    "First and foremost: 1 John 2:27 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

    The Holy Spirit is our teacher...why would I go to a fallible man when I can now approach His throne directly? Yes, we are to confess our sins to ONE ANOTHER...not some guy behind a curtain...really?? My prayers are pretty much ALL intercessory, and funny thing, they get ANSWERED...sooooo...what am I doing wrong here Mary? Just because the "Catholic" Church says I must go through a person to have my sins forgiven?? Say 5 hail Mary's, an our Father , act of contrition...is this some kind of magic formula? Mmmnah, I'll stick with what I know for sure as He manifests as He say's He will. I do not much care for the so called forefathers as they had error the second Jesus ascended to heaven...all manner of heresy entered...ya know, back when the "forefathers" were on the scene...God and only God instructs me, not YOU and certainly not the CC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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