Why do we need priests?

[marksman]

Nope - 2 wrongs NEVER make a right.

Just showing you the hypocrisy of your post that even though the sex abuse problem is rampant in your OWN back yard - you still have the nerve to point fingers in everybody else's direction.
Jesus spoke well of YOU when he said:

Matt. 7:3
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your OWN eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your OWN eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your OWN eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Good luck with that . . .

As I said, you are right and always everyone else is wrong. Tell me, why would I address what is happening in my back yard which it is not by the way, to you if you are a catholic? It doesn't make sense but then common sense is not one of your strong points.

You do not realize how silly you look justifying a popes indiscretion and the machinations of homosexual priests by telling us that we do the same which at no stage justifies what a Pope and wayward priests do. However, your words seem to give the impression that it does.

In a court of law, if a baptist murders someone, they don't say well we can dismiss the charge because a Catholic murdered someone.

 

[marksman]

Oh, and that "NEVER" happens in your Protestant circles - does it . . .

Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors

U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse

So, it is OK for the priest in Ballarat to molest 76 kids because that is what evangelicals do. You one sick person.

 

[marksman]

Your statement above in RED again proves my point that you're an angry anti-Catholic. If you weren't - you wouldn't have posted such an asinine statement without admitting the SAME problem exists in your own dirty little backyard . . .

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

You are typical of priests that think they are God and can do no wrong. And as I am autistic, I don't get angry because I can't because of the neurological disorder in my brain.

I have been involved in the evangelical church for 66 years and have only come across ONE CASE OF CHILD MOLESTATION on the three continents that I have lived in, therefore a minister abusing 76 boys is a catholic phenomenon so in pointing your finger at the evangelicals there are three pointing back at you. .

 

[marksman]

Hi dodgeball......You failed to answer my question AGAIN.

You said that you have read 60 books....can you at least name me the top 5 books (and their authors) that impressed you the most? Books that cover the history or writings of 1st and 2nd century Christians?

Please and Thank you....

They all impressed me as they were adding to my body of knowledge, even the ones written by Catholics.

 

[Pearl]

After reading the historical account of a demonised Roman Catholic Bishop throwing a new born baby into the flames, I have absolutely no respect for the RCC, and there is no way that I would ever consider that it could be anything other than a demonic fraud.

Paul, this is unfair as you can't hold today's Catholic believers responsible for something that happened so many centuries ago. It's like holding all modern day Germans responsible for the atrocities that happened in WW2. I believe that most Catholics are misguided and deceived but that isn't necessarily their fault as they lay such high regard on those who have taught them.

Some Catholics do eventually see the truth like a couple I knew at my church. They had been brought up Catholic but the Holy Spirit led them to see the truth. When they went to their priest and told him they were leaving the Catholic church to follow Jesus he wished them well and said he wished he go with them. But he couldn't because he was steeped in the traditions and teachings.

Just keep praying that the Holy Spirit will enlighten Catholic people and lead them to the truth.

 

[Illuminator]

The real evidence of the true nature of the RCC are the tens of thousands of graves in the South of France of innocent Christians who were slaughtered by the pope-appointed crusaders.

"In July 1209, the crusaders captured the small village of Servian and headed for Béziers, arriving on July 21. They surrounded the city, called the Catholics within to come out, and demanded that the Cathars surrender.[12] Both groups refused to comply. The city fell the following day when an abortive sortie by the defenders was pursued back through the open city gates.[13] The entire population, regardless of faith, was slaughtered, and the city was burned to the ground. Contemporary sources give estimates of the number of dead ranging between 7,000 to 20,000. The latter figure appears in the papal legate Arnaud-Amaury's own report to the pope, in which he admits that no one was spared.

According to the Cistercian writer, Caesar of Heisterbach, one of the leaders of the crusader army, Arnaud-Amaury, when asked by a crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius"—"Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his." On the other hand, the legate's own statement, in a letter to the Pope in August 1209 (col.139), states:

While discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons, of low degree and unarmed, attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!" within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, sex, or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt."
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Albigensian_Crusade

Dr. Warren H. Carroll covered the Albigensian Crusade in one of his History of Christendom
I highly recommend his research on this because it exposes the Cathars for what they were - not just an extra-Christian religion but a dangerous source of anti-life perversity. Since bringing new life into the world was deemed wicked (as the flesh was believed to be inherently evil), heterosexual intercourse was forbidden, and homosexuality, bestiality, and suicide were considered preferable. (is this what you are defending???) The Cathars, though perhaps meaning well, promoted a seriously deranged and socially dangerous cult that threatened the social order that the Church worked for centuries to build and maintain. If that order were toppled, civilization itself would follow it. They were spreading and the stakes were high. If allowed to spread, civilization would have come to an end. Is that what you are defending???

One must to learn to view history not with modernist, humanistic eyes but with eyes of truth, as cold and seemingly unfair as the truth oftentimes is. The facts are that not every religion is peaceful and nice and the Church is just a bunch of mean old men looking to make everyone serve them. One has to be willing to think outside the box, question modernist authority, and dare to be different if he wants to understand history, most especially that of the Church.

 

[Illuminator]

I am not either Catholic or Protestant. I am merely a Bible-believing Christian. And I agree with you about the unfair dealings of some militant Calvinists. But I don't identify with them nor do I support their actions.

You completely miss the point. The atrocities committed by the so called "reformers" were also Bible believing Christians, and they were not all Calvinists. If bad behavior of Catholics centuries ago disproves Catholicism, then the atrocities committed by "Bible believing" reformists disproves "Bible believing Christians" as well. Catholics today don't hold "Bible believing Christians" accountable for the sins of the past, but anti-Catholics like you can't stop. It's a stupid nowhere argument.

The condemnation of idols in Exodus deals solely with the worship of false gods, which exposes you spin on Exodus.

As I keep saying, I stand against Idolatry and pagan worship. I agree with what the Bible says about it, not what you or the Catholic church say to put a spin on what is clearly stated in Exodus. Anyhow the statues are of an Italian "mary". But there was no such person as an Italian Mary. So all the statues and pictures of Mary the Italian is figments of the artists' imagination. So when people bow or worship the statues, they are not worshiping a true image of Mary at all. They might as well locate where the real Mary is buried, dig up her bones and worship them, because that is about as close as they are going to get to the real person. Oh yes! They have a container of her breast milk as a relic in the Vatican! I wonder how they got that, possibly when one of her other children was born?

The "idolatry and pagan worship" charge is also a stupid canard, refuted on this forum 1000 times. Your mockery of Marian devotion, based on misrepresentations and lies, parallels the mockery committed by Satanists.

Show me one verse in the Bible that forbids Scripture in art form.
Show me one verse in the Bible that command places of worship have bare white walls. I challenge you to defend these man made traditions.

Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism “pagan” fail. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other, and that there is something wrong with the non-Christian item.

In the final analysis, nobody has been able to prove these things regarding a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or even its officially authorized practices.​

Is Catholicism Pagan?

One final note. The Vatican has no relic of Mary's breast milk. It's another anti-Catholic lie born out of middle age legend propagated by "Bible believing Christians". A vision by St. Bernard is not a relic.

 

[marksman]

You completely miss the point. The atrocities committed by the so called "reformers" were also Bible believing Christians, and they were not all Calvinists. If bad behavior of Catholics centuries ago disproves Catholicism, then the atrocities committed by "Bible believing" reformists disproves "Bible believing" Christians as well. Catholics today don't hold "Bible believing Christians" accountable for the sins of the past, but anti-Catholics like you can't stop. It's a stupid nowhere argument.

The "idolatry and pagan worship" charge is also a stupid canard, refuted on this forum 1000 times. Your mockery of Marian devotion, based on misrepresentations and lies, parallels the mockery committed by Satanists.
Show me one verse in the Bible that forbids Scripture in art form.
Show me one verse in the Bible that command places of worship have bare white walls. I challenge you to defend these man made traditions.

Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism “pagan” fail. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other, and that there is something wrong with the non-Christian item.

In the final analysis, nobody has been able to prove these things regarding a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or even its officially authorized practices.
Is Catholicism Pagan?

Show me in scripture where it says there were such things as places of worship other than homes.

 

[Pearl]

Show me in scripture where it says there were such things as places of worship other than homes.

There weren't. It was the Romans who changed things and built places of 'worship' in the image of their pagan meeting places.

 

[marksman]

You completely miss the point. The atrocities committed by the so called "reformers" were also Bible believing Christians, and they were not all Calvinists. If bad behavior of Catholics centuries ago disproves Catholicism, then the atrocities committed by "Bible believing" reformists disproves "Bible believing" Christians as well. Catholics today don't hold "Bible believing Christians" accountable for the sins of the past, but anti-Catholics like you can't stop. It's a stupid nowhere argument.

The "idolatry and pagan worship" charge is also a stupid canard, refuted on this forum 1000 times. Your mockery of Marian devotion, based on misrepresentations and lies, parallels the mockery committed by Satanists.
Show me one verse in the Bible that forbids Scripture in art form.
Show me one verse in the Bible that command places of worship have bare white walls. I challenge you to defend these man made traditions.

Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism “pagan” fail. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other, and that there is something wrong with the non-Christian item.

In the final analysis, nobody has been able to prove these things regarding a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or even its officially authorized practices.
Is Catholicism Pagan?

Plain as day. Christmas was a pagan festival taken on by the apostate church and used to make it what it was not. And Easter has nothing at all to do with Jesus death and resurrection and there were certainly no such things like easter eggs outside of the pagan beliefs and which represented fertility.

I do not see anywhere where Jesus death represented fertility.

 

[Mungo]

Plain as day. Christmas was a pagan festival taken on by the apostate church and used to make it what it was not. And Easter has nothing at all to do with Jesus death and resurrection and there were certainly no such things like easter eggs outside of the pagan beliefs and which represented fertility.

I do not see anywhere where Jesus death represented fertility.

Rubbish.
But as usual no evidence is provided for such claims.

 

[marksman]

Rubbish.
But as usual no evidence is provided for such claims.

Rubbish. As is usual you have given no evidence that I am wrong.

 

[Joseph77]

Rubbish. As is usual you have given no evidence that I am wrong.

""Honesty" lyrics
Billy Joel Lyrics
"Honesty"

If you search for tenderness
It isn't hard to find
You can have the love you need to live
But if you look for truthfulness
You might just as well be blind
It always seems to be so hard to give

Honesty is such a lonely word
Everyone is so untrue
Honesty is hardly ever heard
And mostly what I need from you"

 

[Mungo]

Rubbish. As is usual you have given no evidence that I am wrong.

The principles of debate are that if you make a proposition then you provide evidence to support it.
It would seem that you have no evidence to back up your claims that:
Christmas was a pagan festival taken on by the apostate church and used to make it what it was not.
and
Easter has nothing at all to do with Jesus death and resurrection

 

[Joseph77]

Christmas was a pagan festival

and
Easter has nothing at all to do with Jesus death and resurrection

... or at least is quite different from the practice of the believers in the first century, second century, third century, forth century, ...... twentieth century, .....

True, true. What more need be said?

oh, EVIDENCE: keep posting - the more posts, the more evidence there is, THANKS !

 

[Mungo]

... or at least is quite different from the practice of the believers in the first century, second century, third century, forth century, ...... twentieth century, .....

True, true. What more need be said?

oh, EVIDENCE: keep posting - the more posts, the more evidence there is, THANKS !

Idiot.
I was quoting marksman's claim.
Can't you read?

 

[BreadOfLife]

But you dont you follow your religion, you know this bit

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

And if you claim to know Christ - YOU should know this bit . . .

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

It's not Christ "OR" His Church. They are INDIVISIBLE.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am not either Catholic or Protestant. I am merely a Bible-believing Christian. And I agree with you about the unfair dealings of some militant Calvinists. But I don't identify with them nor do I support their actions.

As I keep saying, I stand against Idolatry and pagan worship. I agree with what the Bible says about it, not what you or the Catholic church say to put a spin on what is clearly stated in Exodus. Anyhow the statues are of an Italian "mary". But there was no such person as an Italian Mary. So all the statues and pictures of Mary the Italian is figments of the artists' imagination. So when people bow or worship the statues, they are not worshiping a true image of Mary at all. They might as well locate where the real Mary is buried, dig up her bones and worship them, because that is about as close as they are going to get to the real person. Oh yes! They have a container of her breast milk as a relic in the Vatican! I wonder how they got that, possibly when one of her other children was born?

Make NO mistake - if you're a Christian and you're NOT Catholic or Orthodox - you ARE a Protestant by definition.

You adhere to the 16th century Protestant inventions of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide - which are NOT supported by Scripture.
Your ecclesial roots only go back as far as the 16th century.

As for your moronic comment in RED - this is perhaps your most stupid claim yet.
Please provide evidence for this claim - or admit that you simply lied.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, your great English Roman Catholic Queen Mary showed the true face of her Church to the world, and furthered the cause of English Protestantism like nothing else could have. And God did the English a great favour by cutting off the life of that evil, demonised waste of space at the age of 42 because she could murder even more innocent Christians.

As I educated you before - Queen Mary was responsible for the deaths of about 150-175 Protestants.

Her Protestant half-sister Elizabeth killed an estimated 40,000 Catholics.
Their Protestant daddy, Henry VIII is responsible for having killed an additional 55-72 THOUSAND.

Finally - for you to celebrate ANYBODY's death by referring to a creation of God as a "waste of space" speaks VOLUMES about your hatred.

 

[BreadOfLife]

As I said, you are right and always everyone else is wrong. Tell me, why would I address what is happening in my back yard which it is not by the way, to you if you are a catholic? It doesn't make sense but then common sense is not one of your strong points.

You do not realize how silly you look justifying a popes indiscretion and the machinations of homosexual priests by telling us that we do the same which at no stage justifies what a Pope and wayward priests do. However, your words seem to give the impression that it does.

In a court of law, if a baptist murders someone, they don't say well we can dismiss the charge because a Catholic murdered someone.

So, it is OK for the priest in Ballarat to molest 76 kids because that is what evangelicals do. You one sick person.ey don't say well we can dismiss the charge because a Catholic murdered someone.

This isn't a case of 2 wrongs making a right.
This is a case of YOUR incredible hypocrisy at pointing out the sins of some priests - while YOUR Protestant clergy are guilty of the SAME things.

This is textbook hypocrisy - and the reason I said that Jesus spoke well of you in Matt. 7:3 when He admonished hypocrites . . .