Why do we need priests?

[achristian1985]

The clergy-laity system is a Satanically motivated division within each assembly. Further: "An elder should be the husband of one wife". Celibacy of priests is unscriptural and comes from paganism.
Amazon.com : 9781641407922

Truth Seekers: A Correlation Between Science and Spiritual Reality

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are typical of priests that think they are God and can do no wrong. And as I am autistic, I don't get angry because I can't because of the neurological disorder in my brain.
I have been involved in the evangelical church for 66 years and have only come across ONE CASE OF CHILD MOLESTATION on the three continents that I have lived in, therefore a minister abusing 76 boys is a catholic phenomenon so in pointing your finger at the evangelicals there are three pointing back at you. .

NOT according to your OWN sources . . .

Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy


Nice TRY . . .

 

[Marymog]

They all impressed me as they were adding to my body of knowledge, even the ones written by Catholics.

Soooo you won’t name your top 5?

I am sincerely interested in learning

 

[Mungo]

The clergy-laity system is a Satanically motivated division within each assembly.

Do you have any evidence to back up that claim or are we expected to take your word for it?

Further: "An elder should be the husband of one wife". Celibacy of priests is unscriptural and comes from paganism.

Do you have any evidence to back up that claim or are we expected to take your word for it?

 

[Pearl]

Plain as day. Christmas was a pagan festival taken on by the apostate church and used to make it what it was not. And Easter has nothing at all to do with Jesus death and resurrection and there were certainly no such things like easter eggs outside of the pagan beliefs and which represented fertility.

I do not see anywhere where Jesus death represented fertility.

We all know THAT. But if you can tell us the correct dates perhaps we could use those instead. What really happens is that we REMEMBER. And does it really MATTER if it isn't on the absolutely correct day. It is the REMEMBERING that matters

 

[mjrhealth]

And if you claim to know Christ - YOU should know this bit . . .

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).
- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

It's not Christ "OR" His Church. They are INDIVISIBLE.

100% agree BOL, good thing you didnt mention "your church" we wouldnt want to compare His Bride with a harlot would we, this bit,

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit

 

[BreadOfLife]

100% agree BOL, good thing you didnt mention "your church" we wouldnt want to compare His Bride with a harlot would we, this bit,

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit

I belong to the ONLY Church built by Christ himself.
ALL of the others that came about in the 16th century and afterward were built by MEN.

As we've established - YOUR paramilitary cul "aggressivechristianity.net" with its "Generals" now behind bars, only goes back as far as 1980.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Dr. Warren H. Carroll covered the Albigensian Crusade in one of his History of Christendom
I highly recommend his research on this because it exposes the Cathars for what they were - not just an extra-Christian religion but a dangerous source of anti-life perversity. Since bringing new life into the world was deemed wicked (as the flesh was believed to be inherently evil), heterosexual intercourse was forbidden, and homosexuality, bestiality, and suicide were considered preferable. (is this what you are defending???) The Cathars, though perhaps meaning well, promoted a seriously deranged and socially dangerous cult that threatened the social order that the Church worked for centuries to build and maintain. If that order were toppled, civilization itself would follow it. They were spreading and the stakes were high. If allowed to spread, civilization would have come to an end. Is that what you are defending???

One must to learn to view history not with modernist, humanistic eyes but with eyes of truth, as cold and seemingly unfair as the truth oftentimes is. The facts are that not every religion is peaceful and nice and the Church is just a bunch of mean old men looking to make everyone serve them. One has to be willing to think outside the box, question modernist authority, and dare to be different if he wants to understand history, most especially that of the Church.

Dr Warren H Carroll was a leading RCC historian. His history would be biased because he would be following the party line with his analysis of the Albigensian Crusade. Secular, non-religious historians paint quite a different picture because they are not influenced by any religious persuasion.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Plain as day. Christmas was a pagan festival taken on by the apostate church and used to make it what it was not. And Easter has nothing at all to do with Jesus death and resurrection and there were certainly no such things like easter eggs outside of the pagan beliefs and which represented fertility.

I do not see anywhere where Jesus death represented fertility.

Your ignorance of Scripture is ALMOST matched by your utter ignorance of History.
Time for a History lesson . . .

Easter eggs are a CHRISTIAN tradition dating back to the ancient Church during Lent. Christians would give up ALL DAIRY products, including milk, cheese and eggs for the duration of Lent. On Easter, they would paint eggs RED, which is the Liturgical color of Easter and the Holy Spirit. They would exchange them with the greeting, "Christos Anesti"(Christ is Risen!). The response was, "Alithos anesti" (He is truly risen!).
This is STILL a tradition in the Eastern Churches. Next time you watch "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", you can see this exchange during the scene where the family meets the boyfriend.

As for Christmas - YOURS is the usual ignorant explanation I hear from those who simply don't know theiur history. Here is the REAL reason it is celebrated on December 25th . . .
First of all - the pagan celebration of Sol Invictus goes from December 17th and ends on 23rd. It wasn’t even adopted until the Roman Emperor Aurelian made it official in 274 AD.

PRIOR to that, the Christian historian, Hippolytus of Rome, explains in his Commentary on the book of Daniel (c. A.D. 204) that the birth of Jesus was believed to have taken place on December 25th:

“For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.”

Hippolytus’ reference to Adam is from another one of his writings, the Chronicon, where he explains that Jesus was born nine months to the day of March 25th. According to his calculations, the world was created on the vernal equinox, March 25. It was also believed that the Crucifixion took place on the anniversary of that date, some 5500 years later. This means that the Early Church believed that the Annunciation took place on March 25th on the anniversary of the Creation. The consensus was that Jesus was born exactly nine months later on December 25th.

MY advice to you:
Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Paul Christensen]

You completely miss the point. The atrocities committed by the so called "reformers" were also Bible believing Christians, and they were not all Calvinists. If bad behavior of Catholics centuries ago disproves Catholicism, then the atrocities committed by "Bible believing" reformists disproves "Bible believing Christians" as well. Catholics today don't hold "Bible believing Christians" accountable for the sins of the past, but anti-Catholics like you can't stop. It's a stupid nowhere argument.

The condemnation of idols in Exodus deals solely with the worship of false gods, which exposes you spin on Exodus.

The "idolatry and pagan worship" charge is also a stupid canard, refuted on this forum 1000 times. Your mockery of Marian devotion, based on misrepresentations and lies, parallels the mockery committed by Satanists.

Show me one verse in the Bible that forbids Scripture in art form.
Show me one verse in the Bible that command places of worship have bare white walls. I challenge you to defend these man made traditions.

Ultimately, all attempts to prove Catholicism “pagan” fail. To make a charge of paganism stick, one must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Church and something in the non-Christian world. One must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other, and that there is something wrong with the non-Christian item.

In the final analysis, nobody has been able to prove these things regarding a doctrine of the Catholic faith, or even its officially authorized practices.​

Is Catholicism Pagan?

One final note. The Vatican has no relic of Mary's breast milk. It's another anti-Catholic lie born out of middle age legend propagated by "Bible believing Christians". A vision by St. Bernard is not a relic.

All I am doing is reading material compiled by unbiased historians and commentators. The RCC is in denial about the atrocities it did to innocent people. Anyhow, I know that I am not going to convince you, but there are many other readers of this forum who will read these posts and will judge for themselves. All I need to do is to tell people that God took the life of Queen Murdering Mary of England at the age of 42 because He decided that He did not want another Roman Catholic on the throne of England, and He made sure that the law was changed to prevent it permanently. I guess He heard the screams of the new born baby thrown into the flames along with its mother by an honourable Roman Catholic official.

A parallel. At the Nuremberg trial a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust gave testimony of the agonising screams of little children when they were thrown alive into the concentration camp ovens. Adolf Hitler was a devout Roman Catholic, and this type of atrocity was done on his orders. Interesting parallel, don't you think?

 

[mjrhealth]

I belong to the ONLY Church built by Christ himself.
ALL of the others that came about in the 16th century and afterward were built by MEN.

As we've established - YOUR paramilitary cul "aggressivechristianity.net" with its "Generals" now behind bars, only goes back as far as 1980.

No catholics built your church that is why it is called teh "catholic " church, are you so foolish. A man and his idol never part.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Make NO mistake - if you're a Christian and you're NOT Catholic or Orthodox - you ARE a Protestant by definition.

You adhere to the 16th century Protestant inventions of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide - which are NOT supported by Scripture.
Your ecclesial roots only go back as far as the 16th century.

As for your moronic comment in RED - this is perhaps your most stupid claim yet.
Please provide evidence for this claim - or admit that you simply lied.

The silent majority of members who read these posts will read mine, and then yours and will decide which are the most credible. Your constant, repeated abuse and accusations tell the story of which posts are most credible. I think you'd be shocked and dismayed at how your abusive manner is putting off members even thinking about having any fellowship or unity with the RCC, because they see how RCCs on this forum conduct themselves when challenged about their doctrine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

A parallel. At the Nuremberg trial a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust gave testimony of the agonising screams of little children when they were thrown alive into the concentration camp ovens. Adolf Hitler was a devout Roman Catholic, and this type of atrocity was done on his orders. Interesting parallel, don't you think?

Another one of your filthy, historically bankrupt LIES.

Hitler was no more a "devout Cathoolic" than YOU are a space alien. (although that would explain a LOT)
He renounced ALL Christian beliefs in favor of his later occultism.

If you know anything about Hitler - and it's obvious that you don't - you would know this.
There is not a single serious student of history that would ever make the idiotic claim YOU just made . . .

 

[Paul Christensen]

As I educated you before - Queen Mary was responsible for the deaths of about 150-175 Protestants.

Her Protestant half-sister Elizabeth killed an estimated 40,000 Catholics.
Their Protestant daddy, Henry VIII is responsible for having killed an additional 55-72 THOUSAND.

Finally - for you to celebrate ANYBODY's death by referring to a creation of God as a "waste of space" speaks VOLUMES about your hatred.

I don't need to defend myself against your abuse and accusations. By being abusive the way you are on this forum, you are digging your own hole in which you are falling. You are showing by your own words the best advertisement against the RCC. There is nothing I can say that would be more convincing to other members of the forum who read the posts on this thread.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No catholics built your church that is why it is called teh "catholic " church, are you so foolish. A man and his idol never part.

Yup - the very SAME Catholic Church that FIRST CENTURY Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius wrote about:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).


Yup - "Guilty" as charged . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't need to defend myself against your abuse and accusations. By being abusive the way you are on this forum, you are digging your own hole in which you are falling. You are showing by your own words the best advertisement against the RCC. There is nothing I can say that would be more convincing to other members of the forum who read the posts on this thread.

If, by "abuse and accusations", you're referring to my holding you accountable for the horrific things you said regarding one of God's creations - then maybe you shouldn't rejoice when people die by calling them "evil" and "demonic".

You're just suffering from an intense bout of hypocrisy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The silent majority of members who read these posts will read mine, and then yours and will decide which are the most credible. Your constant, repeated abuse and accusations tell the story of which posts are most credible. I think you'd be shocked and dismayed at how your abusive manner is putting off members even thinking about having any fellowship or unity with the RCC, because they see how RCCs on this forum conduct themselves when challenged about their doctrine.

Actually - if everybody reads BOTH of our posts - they will agree with me that YOUR claim IS idiotic.
Here is what YOU said about Mary:
"Oh yes! They have a container of her breast milk as a relic in the Vatican!"

You made this asinine claim without offering a SHRED of evidence - probably because you know it is a flat-out LIE.

Here's a little advice:
No matter HOW angry you become - don't say things that you CAN'T substantiate.
It's embarrassing to watch . . .

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yup - the very SAME Catholic Church that FIRST CENTURY Bishop of Antioch, Ignatius wrote about:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).


Yup - "Guilty" as charged . . .

If Ignatius came back to life, he would cry out, "No! No! Don't quote me to support your pagan fraud!"

 

[Paul Christensen]

If, by "abuse and accusations", you're referring to my holding you accountable for the horrific things you said regarding one of God's creations - then maybe you shouldn't rejoice when people die by calling them "evil" and "demonic".

You're just suffering from an intense bout of hypocrisy . . .

Let the members discern the spirit behind your abuse and accusations and judge for themselves what is the spirit behind Roman Catholicism.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If Ignatius came back to life, he would cry out, "No! No! Don't quote me to support your pagan fraud!"

No - he would tell YOU to come home to Christ's Church.

Here's an exercise -
Ignatius is describing the 1st century Church. Tell me WHICH Church this sounds like to YOU . . .
Ignatius of Antioch
On the Church . . .
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a Church. I am confident that you accept this, for I have received the exemplar of your love and have it with me in the person of your bishop. His very demeanor is a great lesson and his meekness is his strength. I believe that even the godless do respect him (Letter to the Trallians 3:1-2 [A. D. 110]).

On the Eucharist . . .
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).

. . . and are now ready to obey your bishop and clergy with undivided minds and to share in the one common breaking of bread – the medicine of immortality, and the sovereign remedy by which we escape death and live in Jesus Christ for evermore (Letter to the Ephesians 20 [A.D. 110]).

On the Mass . . .
Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 110]).

On Confession/Reconciliation . . .
For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).

For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop (ibid. 8).

On Salvation outside the Church . . .
Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism, he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine, he has no part in the Passion of Christ. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3-4:1 [A.D. 110]).