Why do we need priests?

[Marymog]

I have yet to find a radical catholic that is willing to learn. So you have read four books and I have read 60 plus. Nuf said.

Hi dodgeball......You failed to answer my question AGAIN.

You said that you have read 60 books....can you at least name me the top 5 books (and their authors) that impressed you the most? Books that cover the history or writings of 1st and 2nd century Christians?

Please and Thank you....

 

[BreadOfLife]

The only thing we have failed at was convincing you of the truth, which by all means Christ has failed too, if He could. But it is written,

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

More empty accusations with ZERO evidence.

That's what I thought . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have just proved what I said. There are no angry anti-Catholics here. Just people who are not blinded to reality. Like all the priests who are molesting boys.

Your statement above in RED again proves my point that you're an angry anti-Catholic. If you weren't - you wouldn't have posted such an asinine statement without admitting the SAME problem exists in your own dirty little backyard . . .

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

 

[BreadOfLife]

We ALL know that this is false. That is what you said. We ALL and in my dictionary all MEANS ALL, not some subset of ALL.

I think you got your arguments mixed up.

I was defending my statement that NOT every student learns what a teacher WANTS them to learn - no matter HOW good the teacher is.
Some students are just bad students.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"Stop me if you've heard this before: A deeply religious man, beloved by his church/community, targets and grooms a young child for sexual abuse. The child tells an adult and they report it to the elders of the church. The church investigates the abuse and then sweeps it all under the rug. The deeply religious man is never reported to the police, the victim is blamed for seducing the man, and the man goes on to molest many other children, leaving a trail of scarred families in his wake."
That is a perfect description of the catholic church and catholic priests. How many did that priest in Ballarat molest? Was it 76?
The fact is you don't solve the problem of clergy abuse in the catholic church by pointing your finger at another church and that is the truth.
And it shows us what a sick man you are in trying to do that. In other words, you are as guilty as the priests that molested the boys because, in fact, you are making excuses for them by saying we will worry about clergy abuse in the catholic church when you have cleaned up your own back yard.
Sorry to say, but we don't put justice on hold for one group of victims until we have solved another crime.

Oh, and that "NEVER" happens in your Protestant circles - does it . . .

Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors

U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse

 

[BreadOfLife]

To do a PhD one has to read every book and every published article, and unpublished articles if they are available, written by all Catholic and Protestant authors. It can take up to 5 years or more to successfully complete a PhD because the bulk of the time is in locating, reading, and compiling research notes, mapping out the first draft of the thesis. One has to examine the topic from all the different points of view, do a survey of the literature, making sure that any conclusions have not been made in any other PhD on the same topic, because then the conclusions reached would not be new, and the thesis could be downgraded to a Masters. So, this means that every other PhD thesis on the topic must be read carefully as part of the literature survey to ensure that the premise for the PhD is totally new. This is very difficult for a person doing a PhD in theology, because most ideas have already been raked over in previous ones. Therefore, because the conferring of a PhD by a institution worth anything, is saying that the person is a world expert on the topic, having an intimate knowledge of what every other person has written on it, and has come up with a complete new and justifiable premise that adds valuable knowledge and insight into the theological knowledge of the academic Christian community.

Also, evaluation of a PhD thesis is made by a team of academics who have PhDs in theology themselves and are world experts in their own area of research. Then, their evaluation is submitted to a "sister" institution for moderation by another team of PhD experts to ensure that the first team have done their evaluation correctly.

What this happens in practice in New Zealand, is that a PhD submitted at Otago University in Dunedin, is evaluated, and then sent to Auckland University for moderation. If both university teams agree that this is a thesis that can have a PhD awarded, then the person can have the confidence that their PhD is sound and that they are a recognised world expert in their area of expertise.

There are people who have completed PhDs in Biblical archaeology, for example, who have had to actually travel to the Middle East to visit the ruins for themselves, plus all the museums, and then have their PhD, although studied at Auckland University for example, moderated through a university like Oxford or Cambridge to really make sure that their PhD is world standard.

So, I have the greatest respect for anyone who is doing or has completed a PhD. For me it is like climbing Mount Everest, where it is the tough who start it, and the fittest survive to the end.

Now that I know that my friend is in the process of doing a PhD, I would be very reluctant to dismiss his posts without carefully considering them in the light of Scripture.

That's funny.

The Catholic theologian and apologist, Dr. Scott Hahn, has a PhD - and I can name a DOZEN others
Do you have same "respect" for HIS doctorate and HIS findings as you do everyone else's??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Typical catholic response. I don't have to worry about Catholics that are guilty because the evangelicals are guilty as well. In other words, two wrongs make a right. it seems to me that every time you open your mouth you put your foot in it.

Nope - 2 wrongs NEVER make a right.

Just showing you the hypocrisy of your post that even though the sex abuse problem is rampant in your OWN back yard - you still have the nerve to point fingers in everybody else's direction.
Jesus spoke well of YOU when he said:

Matt. 7:3
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your OWN eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your OWN eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your OWN eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

More empty accusations with ZERO evidence.

That's what I thought . . .

Not empty, but you just dont want to see, for a man who thinks a lot, you still have not learned anything.

Blind leading the blind

 

[Paul Christensen]

That's funny.

The Catholic theologian and apologist, Dr. Scott Hahn, has a PhD - and I can name a DOZEN others
Do you have same "respect" for HIS doctorate and HIS findings as you do everyone else's??

After reading the historical account of a demonised Roman Catholic Bishop throwing a new born baby into the flames, I have absolutely no respect for the RCC, and there is no way that I would ever consider that it could be anything other than a demonic fraud.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not empty, but you just dont want to see, for a man who thinks a lot, you still have not learned anything.

Blind leading the blind

Thanks.
Let me know when you're ready to provide some evidence so I can take you seriously . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Thanks.
Let me know when you're ready to provide some evidence so I can take you seriously . . .

Seriously???
No evidence in this world could convince a blind man that there is light.

 

[BreadOfLife]

After reading the historical account of a demonised Roman Catholic Bishop throwing a new born baby into the flames, I have absolutely no respect for the RCC, and there is no way that I would ever consider that it could be anything other than a demonic fraud.

So, I have the greatest respect for anyone who is doing or has completed a PhD.

Wow - another documented LIE.

Soooooo, after making the above statement in RED - you NOW change your tune to say that you ONLY have respect for Protestant PhD's??

Nothin' like good, old-fashioned anti-Catholic hypocrisy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Seriously???
No evidence in this world could convince a blind man that there is light.

Seriously??
As a supposed follower of Christ - You're ALWAYS supposed to provide evidence (1 Pet. 3:15).

If you can't - then you need to admit that you lied . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

After reading the historical account of a demonised Roman Catholic Bishop throwing a new born baby into the flames, I have absolutely no respect for the RCC, and there is no way that I would ever consider that it could be anything other than a demonic fraud.

Gee - NONE of that went on among your Protestant Fathers - or DID it??

History shows us that . . .
- Protestant “Reformer” Philip Melanchthon accepted the chairmanship of the secular inquisition that suppressed the Anabaptists in Germany with imprisonment or death. . . . he was convinced that “God had destined all Anabaptists to hell.” (Durant , 423)

- A regular inquisition was set up in Saxony, with Philip Melanchthon on the bench, and under it many persons were punished, some with death, some with life imprisonment, and some with exile. (Smith , 177)

- During Protestant “Reformer” John Calvin’s reign in Geneva, between 1542 and 1546] “58 persons were put to death for heresy.” (Durant , 473)

- In his Dialogues of 1535, Protestant “Reformer” Martin Bucer called on governments to exterminate by fire and sword all professing a false religion, and even their wives, children and cattle. (Armstrong; Janssen, V, 367-368, 290-291)

- Philip Melanchthon, in a letter to John Calvin and Heinrich Bullinger, gave “thanks to the Son of God” . . . and called the burning of Michael Servetus a “pious and memorable example to all posterity.”

- Martin Bucer declared from his pulpit in Strasbourg that Servetus had deserved to be disemboweled and torn to pieces. Bullinger, generally humane, agreed that civil magistrates must punish blasphemy with death. (Durant , 484)

- The Martyrs of Gorkum were 19 Dutch Catholic clerics, secular & religious, who were hanged on 9 July 1572 in the town of Brielle by militant Dutch Calvinists for the “crime” of being Catholic. (Martyrs of Gorkum - Wikipedia)

And YOU have the audacity to judge the entire Catholic church over the actions of ONE Bishop.
Look at the murderous mess in your OWN back yard . . .



And YOU have the audacity to judge the entire Catholic church over the actions of ONE Bishop.
Look at the murderous mess in your OWN back yard . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Seriously??
As a supposed follower of Christ - You're ALWAYS supposed to provide evidence (1 Pet. 3:15).

If you can't - then you need to admit that you lied . .

But you dont you follow your religion, you know this bit

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Gee - NONE of that went on among your Protestant Fathers - or DID it??

History shows us that . . .
- Protestant “Reformer” Philip Melanchthon accepted the chairmanship of the secular inquisition that suppressed the Anabaptists in Germany with imprisonment or death. . . . he was convinced that “God had destined all Anabaptists to hell.” (Durant , 423)

- A regular inquisition was set up in Saxony, with Philip Melanchthon on the bench, and under it many persons were punished, some with death, some with life imprisonment, and some with exile. (Smith , 177)

- During Protestant “Reformer” John Calvin’s reign in Geneva, between 1542 and 1546] “58 persons were put to death for heresy.” (Durant , 473)

- In his Dialogues of 1535, Protestant “Reformer” Martin Bucer called on governments to exterminate by fire and sword all professing a false religion, and even their wives, children and cattle. (Armstrong; Janssen, V, 367-368, 290-291)

- Philip Melanchthon, in a letter to John Calvin and Heinrich Bullinger, gave “thanks to the Son of God” . . . and called the burning of Michael Servetus a “pious and memorable example to all posterity.”

- Martin Bucer declared from his pulpit in Strasbourg that Servetus had deserved to be disemboweled and torn to pieces. Bullinger, generally humane, agreed that civil magistrates must punish blasphemy with death. (Durant , 484)

- The Martyrs of Gorkum were 19 Dutch Catholic clerics, secular & religious, who were hanged on 9 July 1572 in the town of Brielle by militant Dutch Calvinists for the “crime” of being Catholic. (Martyrs of Gorkum - Wikipedia)

And YOU have the audacity to judge the entire Catholic church over the actions of ONE Bishop.
Look at the murderous mess in your OWN back yard . . .



And YOU have the audacity to judge the entire Catholic church over the actions of ONE Bishop.
Look at the murderous mess in your OWN back yard . . .

I am not either Catholic or Protestant. I am merely a Bible-believing Christian. And I agree with you about the unfair dealings of some militant Calvinists. But I don't identify with them nor do I support their actions.

As I keep saying, I stand against Idolatry and pagan worship. I agree with what the Bible says about it, not what you or the Catholic church say to put a spin on what is clearly stated in Exodus. Anyhow the statues are of an Italian "mary". But there was no such person as an Italian Mary. So all the statues and pictures of Mary the Italian is figments of the artists' imagination. So when people bow or worship the statues, they are not worshiping a true image of Mary at all. They might as well locate where the real Mary is buried, dig up her bones and worship them, because that is about as close as they are going to get to the real person. Oh yes! They have a container of her breast milk as a relic in the Vatican! I wonder how they got that, possibly when one of her other children was born?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Gee - NONE of that went on among your Protestant Fathers - or DID it??

History shows us that . . .
- Protestant “Reformer” Philip Melanchthon accepted the chairmanship of the secular inquisition that suppressed the Anabaptists in Germany with imprisonment or death. . . . he was convinced that “God had destined all Anabaptists to hell.” (Durant , 423)

- A regular inquisition was set up in Saxony, with Philip Melanchthon on the bench, and under it many persons were punished, some with death, some with life imprisonment, and some with exile. (Smith , 177)

- During Protestant “Reformer” John Calvin’s reign in Geneva, between 1542 and 1546] “58 persons were put to death for heresy.” (Durant , 473)

- In his Dialogues of 1535, Protestant “Reformer” Martin Bucer called on governments to exterminate by fire and sword all professing a false religion, and even their wives, children and cattle. (Armstrong; Janssen, V, 367-368, 290-291)

- Philip Melanchthon, in a letter to John Calvin and Heinrich Bullinger, gave “thanks to the Son of God” . . . and called the burning of Michael Servetus a “pious and memorable example to all posterity.”

- Martin Bucer declared from his pulpit in Strasbourg that Servetus had deserved to be disemboweled and torn to pieces. Bullinger, generally humane, agreed that civil magistrates must punish blasphemy with death. (Durant , 484)

- The Martyrs of Gorkum were 19 Dutch Catholic clerics, secular & religious, who were hanged on 9 July 1572 in the town of Brielle by militant Dutch Calvinists for the “crime” of being Catholic. (Martyrs of Gorkum - Wikipedia)

And YOU have the audacity to judge the entire Catholic church over the actions of ONE Bishop.
Look at the murderous mess in your OWN back yard . . .



And YOU have the audacity to judge the entire Catholic church over the actions of ONE Bishop.
Look at the murderous mess in your OWN back yard . . .

Well, your great English Roman Catholic Queen Mary showed the true face of her Church to the world, and furthered the cause of English Protestantism like nothing else could have. And God did the English a great favour by cutting off the life of that evil, demonised waste of space at the age of 42 because she could murder even more innocent Christians.

 

[Paul Christensen]

But you dont you follow your religion, you know this bit

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

The real evidence of the true nature of the RCC are the tens of thousands of graves in the South of France of innocent Christians who were slaughtered by the pope-appointed crusaders.

"In July 1209, the crusaders captured the small village of Servian and headed for Béziers, arriving on July 21. They surrounded the city, called the Catholics within to come out, and demanded that the Cathars surrender.[12] Both groups refused to comply. The city fell the following day when an abortive sortie by the defenders was pursued back through the open city gates.[13] The entire population, regardless of faith, was slaughtered, and the city was burned to the ground. Contemporary sources give estimates of the number of dead ranging between 7,000 to 20,000. The latter figure appears in the papal legate Arnaud-Amaury's own report to the pope, in which he admits that no one was spared.

According to the Cistercian writer, Caesar of Heisterbach, one of the leaders of the crusader army, Arnaud-Amaury, when asked by a crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius"—"Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his." On the other hand, the legate's own statement, in a letter to the Pope in August 1209 (col.139), states:

While discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons, of low degree and unarmed, attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!" within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, sex, or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt."
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Albigensian_Crusade

 

[mjrhealth]

The real evidence of the true nature of the RCC are the tens of thousands of graves in the South of France of innocent Christians who were slaughtered by the pope-appointed crusaders.

"In July 1209, the crusaders captured the small village of Servian and headed for Béziers, arriving on July 21. They surrounded the city, called the Catholics within to come out, and demanded that the Cathars surrender.[12] Both groups refused to comply. The city fell the following day when an abortive sortie by the defenders was pursued back through the open city gates.[13] The entire population, regardless of faith, was slaughtered, and the city was burned to the ground. Contemporary sources give estimates of the number of dead ranging between 7,000 to 20,000. The latter figure appears in the papal legate Arnaud-Amaury's own report to the pope, in which he admits that no one was spared.

According to the Cistercian writer, Caesar of Heisterbach, one of the leaders of the crusader army, Arnaud-Amaury, when asked by a crusader how to distinguish the Cathars from the Catholics, answered: "Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius"—"Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his." On the other hand, the legate's own statement, in a letter to the Pope in August 1209 (col.139), states:

While discussions were still going on with the barons about the release of those in the city who were deemed to be Catholics, the servants and other persons, of low degree and unarmed, attacked the city without waiting for orders from their leaders. To our amazement, crying "to arms, to arms!" within the space of two or three hours they crossed the ditches and the walls and Béziers was taken. Our men spared no one, irrespective of rank, sex, or age, and put to the sword almost 20,000 people. After this great slaughter the whole city was despoiled and burnt."
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Albigensian_Crusade

Dont have to tell me, but in the end all the religions of this world will be held accountable, all daughters of the harlot.

 

[Paul Christensen]

There have been images of Madonna and child; Mary seated in a chair with the child on her lap. Some of these images look very similar to images that we know about from some of the pagan goddesses at the time.

Isis and Horus, from a statue in the Berlin Museum ©

Madonna Enthroned by Fra Filippo Lippi, mid 1400s ©
Isis, for example, was seated in such a chair with the infant Horus on her lap in the same way.

When Christianity was spreading across the Empire, it's clear that it deliberately took images from the pagan world in which it lived and into which it spread and used those images. Old holy wells and shrines were turned into Christian shrines. In Egypt a shrine of Isis was deliberately and self-consciously re-created as a shrine of Mary.

One of the important cities for Mary was Ephesus, where the goddess Diana was worshipped. It's not surprising that Mary drew upon the imagery associated with the goddesses, because that was the imagery the people knew.

BBC - Religions - Christianity: Mary