Sabertooth
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- Sep 17, 2019
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Why does God give faith to some but not everyone? (Ephesians 2:8)
- Thread starter Patrick1966
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Your verse isn't saying that faith is the Gift.
Its teaching that GRACE is the Gift.
"The Gift of Salvation"
"The Gift of Righteousness".
Its teaching that Salvation is not man earned, ......that God gives it as a GIFT, (The GRACE of God)..... so that no person can BOAST that they did it for themselves.
Thank you.
There is also this: John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father".
So, again, why does God grant it to only some? Is it because he's only granting it to those who are his, so to speak?
Behold
Well-Known Member
God does not choose some to Be saved, and refuses to "grant" the Cross of Christ to others.
So, what you are teaching is CALVINISM.
And he is one of the Devil's finest Theologians.
Try not to be His disciple for the rest of your life.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Its interesting that Calvinist's think and believe that Calvin's twisted idea of "predestined elect" is Christianity.
So, you are sharing Calvin's Theology, using verses He twisted.
So, at least realize yourself so that you can choose to continue or you can choose to stop.
You get to decide.
Use your FREE WILL, carefully., Patrick1966
Don't you remember arguing against my belief that, in the end, ALL people will be with God?
I may be a Universalist. I'm probably even a jerk but I'm definitely NOT a Calvinist.
Anyway, do you wish to return to the topic of the thread and explain why God grants some to come to Jesus and not EVERYBODY?
Behold
Well-Known Member
If you preach Buddha and then say, but im really a Scientologist, then its you that is confused.
So, whatever you are .......... i can only tell you that the teaching that God saves some and wont let others be saved, .. He does not choose them for Salvation, .......this is JOHN CALVINISM.
its a curse.
Its a cancer on the Body of Christ.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The Cross of Christ is the "granting" is the "calling".
Its available to the "world".
John 3:16
Behold
Well-Known Member
Even better I'll put you on "ignore" and stop wasting my time reading your insanity.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Just be thankful that someone who knows Paul's Theology, took the time to try to deal with you quite a bit, as your cult has blinded you to the Cross, and enlisted you into their madness.
I tried show you what they will make certain you never see.
So, do Whatever your free will decides.
That's on you, Patrick 1966
Who are the elect of God?
Answers from GOT
Simply put, the “elect of God” are those whom God has predestined to salvation. They are called the “elect” because that word denotes “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” Every four years in the U.S., we “elect” a President—i.e., we choose who will serve in that office. The same goes for God and those who will be saved; God chooses those who will be saved. These are the elect of God.
As it stands, the concept of God electing those who will be saved (predestination) isn’t controversial. It is a biblical truth (John 6:44, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4-5). What is controversial is how and in what manner God chooses those who will be saved. Throughout church history, there have been two main views on the doctrine of election. One view, which we will call the prescient or foreknowledge view, teaches that God, through His omniscience, knows those who will in the course of time choose of their own free will to place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation. On the basis of this divine foreknowledge, God elects these individuals “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4).
The second main view is the Augustinian view, which essentially teaches that God not only divinely elects those who will have faith in Jesus Christ, but also divinely elects to grant to these individuals the faith to believe in Christ. In other words, God’s election unto salvation is not based on a foreknowledge of an individual’s faith, but is based on the free, sovereign grace of Almighty God.
The difference boils down to this: who has the ultimate choice in salvation—God or man? In the first view (the prescient view), man has control; his free will is sovereign and becomes the determining factor in God’s election. God can provide the way of salvation through Jesus Christ, but man must choose Christ for himself in order to make salvation real. Ultimately, this view diminishes the biblical understanding of God's sovereignty. This view puts the Creator's provision of salvation at the mercy of the creature; if God wants people in heaven, He has to hope that man will freely choose His way of salvation. In reality, the prescient view of election is no view of election at all, because God is not really choosing—He is only confirming. It is man who is the ultimate chooser.
In the Augustinian view, God has control; He is the one who, of His own sovereign will, freely chooses those whom He will save. He not only elects those whom He will save, but He actually accomplishes their salvation. Rather than simply make salvation possible, God chooses those whom He will save and then saves them. This view puts God in His proper place as Creator and Sovereign.
The Augustinian view is not without problems of its own. Critics have claimed that this view robs man of his free will. If God chooses those who will be saved, then what difference does it make for man to believe? Why preach the gospel? Furthermore, if God elects according to His sovereign will, then how can we be responsible for our actions? These are all good and fair questions that need to be answered. A good passage to answer these questions is Romans 9, the most in-depth passage dealing with God’s sovereignty in election.
The context of the passage flows from Romans 8, which ends with a great climax of praise: “For I am convinced that... [nothing] in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). This leads Paul to consider how a Jew might respond to that statement. While Jesus came to the lost children of Israel and while the early church was largely Jewish in makeup, the gospel was spreading among the Gentiles much faster than among the Jews. In fact, most Jews saw the gospel as a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 1:23) and rejected Jesus. This would lead the average Jew to wonder if God’s plan of election has failed, since most Jews reject the message of the gospel.
Throughout Romans 9, Paul systematically shows that God’s sovereign election has been in force from the very beginning. He begins with a crucial statement: “For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel” (Romans 9:6). This means that not all people of ethnic Israel (that is, those descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) belong to true Israel (the elect of God). Reviewing the history of Israel, Paul shows that God chose Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau. Just in case anyone thinks that God was choosing these individuals based on the faith or good works they would do in the future, he adds, “Though they [Jacob and Esau] were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad – in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls” (Romans 9:11).
At this point, one might be tempted to accuse God of acting unjustly. Paul anticipates this accusation in v. 14, stating plainly that God is not unjust in any way. “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” (Romans 9:15). God is sovereign over His creation. He is free to choose those whom He will choose, and He is free to pass by those whom He will pass by. The creature has no right to accuse the Creator of being unjust. The very thought that the creature can stand in judgment of the Creator is absurd to Paul, and it should be so to every Christian, as well. The balance of Romans 9 substantiates this point.
Ephesians 1:5 tells us that God “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.” According to this verse, the basis of our being predestined is not something that we do or will do, but is based solely on God. This predetermination is based on His sovereignty, unchanging character (Malachi 3:6), foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). He offers salvation to everyone (Titus 2:11) and has made Himself plain to everyone so that everyone is without excuse (Romans 1:19-20).
Both predestination and personal responsibility are true—God is completely in control, and humanity makes choices and is completely accountable for those choices. The Bible does not present these as irreconcilable truths (as theological traditions sometimes do). We learn that, if God elected those He foreknew, He both knows His creation before it exists and He determines important things about His creation. If God is great enough to be the Creator of all, then He is not stumped by the mutual existence of His sovereignty and human volition, choice, and responsibility.
Who are the elect of God?
Answers from GOT
Simply put, the “elect of God” are those whom God has predestined to salvation. They are called the “elect” because that word denotes “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” Every four years in the U.S., we “elect” a President—i.e., we choose who will serve in that office. The same goes for God and those who will be saved; God chooses those who will be saved. These are the elect of God.
As it stands, the concept of God electing those who will be saved (predestination) isn’t controversial. It is a biblical truth (John 6:44, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4-5). What is controversial is how and in what manner God chooses those who will be saved. Throughout church history, there have been two main views on the doctrine of election. One view, which we will call the prescient or foreknowledge view, teaches that God, through His omniscience, knows those who will in the course of time choose of their own free will to place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation. On the basis of this divine foreknowledge, God elects these individuals “before the foundation of the world” (Ephesians 1:4).
The second main view is the Augustinian view, which essentially teaches that God not only divinely elects those who will have faith in Jesus Christ, but also divinely elects to grant to these individuals the faith to believe in Christ. In other words, God’s election unto salvation is not based on a foreknowledge of an individual’s faith, but is based on the free, sovereign grace of Almighty God.
The difference boils down to this: who has the ultimate choice in salvation—God or man? In the first view (the prescient view), man has control; his free will is sovereign and becomes the determining factor in God’s election. God can provide the way of salvation through Jesus Christ, but man must choose Christ for himself in order to make salvation real. Ultimately, this view diminishes the biblical understanding of God's sovereignty. This view puts the Creator's provision of salvation at the mercy of the creature; if God wants people in heaven, He has to hope that man will freely choose His way of salvation. In reality, the prescient view of election is no view of election at all, because God is not really choosing—He is only confirming. It is man who is the ultimate chooser.
In the Augustinian view, God has control; He is the one who, of His own sovereign will, freely chooses those whom He will save. He not only elects those whom He will save, but He actually accomplishes their salvation. Rather than simply make salvation possible, God chooses those whom He will save and then saves them. This view puts God in His proper place as Creator and Sovereign.
The Augustinian view is not without problems of its own. Critics have claimed that this view robs man of his free will. If God chooses those who will be saved, then what difference does it make for man to believe? Why preach the gospel? Furthermore, if God elects according to His sovereign will, then how can we be responsible for our actions? These are all good and fair questions that need to be answered. A good passage to answer these questions is Romans 9, the most in-depth passage dealing with God’s sovereignty in election.
The context of the passage flows from Romans 8, which ends with a great climax of praise: “For I am convinced that... [nothing] in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38-39). This leads Paul to consider how a Jew might respond to that statement. While Jesus came to the lost children of Israel and while the early church was largely Jewish in makeup, the gospel was spreading among the Gentiles much faster than among the Jews. In fact, most Jews saw the gospel as a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 1:23) and rejected Jesus. This would lead the average Jew to wonder if God’s plan of election has failed, since most Jews reject the message of the gospel.
Throughout Romans 9, Paul systematically shows that God’s sovereign election has been in force from the very beginning. He begins with a crucial statement: “For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel” (Romans 9:6). This means that not all people of ethnic Israel (that is, those descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) belong to true Israel (the elect of God). Reviewing the history of Israel, Paul shows that God chose Isaac over Ishmael and Jacob over Esau. Just in case anyone thinks that God was choosing these individuals based on the faith or good works they would do in the future, he adds, “Though they [Jacob and Esau] were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad – in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls” (Romans 9:11).
At this point, one might be tempted to accuse God of acting unjustly. Paul anticipates this accusation in v. 14, stating plainly that God is not unjust in any way. “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion” (Romans 9:15). God is sovereign over His creation. He is free to choose those whom He will choose, and He is free to pass by those whom He will pass by. The creature has no right to accuse the Creator of being unjust. The very thought that the creature can stand in judgment of the Creator is absurd to Paul, and it should be so to every Christian, as well. The balance of Romans 9 substantiates this point.
Ephesians 1:5 tells us that God “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.” According to this verse, the basis of our being predestined is not something that we do or will do, but is based solely on God. This predetermination is based on His sovereignty, unchanging character (Malachi 3:6), foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). He offers salvation to everyone (Titus 2:11) and has made Himself plain to everyone so that everyone is without excuse (Romans 1:19-20).
Both predestination and personal responsibility are true—God is completely in control, and humanity makes choices and is completely accountable for those choices. The Bible does not present these as irreconcilable truths (as theological traditions sometimes do). We learn that, if God elected those He foreknew, He both knows His creation before it exists and He determines important things about His creation. If God is great enough to be the Creator of all, then He is not stumped by the mutual existence of His sovereignty and human volition, choice, and responsibility.
Thank you for your response. I'll have to read it again carefully to fully absorb it. Get ready for Beholden's rebuttal in 3...2...1...
Bracing myself here, lol...I go by the word of God, not by another member...plenty of scripture for you to scroll through...LOL.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Who are the elect of God?
Simply put, the “elect of God” are those whom God has predestined to salvation.
That's John Calvinism you are teaching.
He was a devil.... a liar, and a Cross denier..
Dont be a follower of this man.
Last edited:
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Here, I have to go with:
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil." John 3:19
and
4 "Now the Spirit [a]expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,"
Tim. 4:1,2
After enough times rejecting Christ, their hearts become hardened to sin and are not repentant nor sorry for their deeds.
JMHO
Romans 12:23 states that ALL men are given a "measure" of faith to build upon.
"For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you."
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