Why Esther?

[Willie T]

I am not talking about the prophets. I am talking about the book of Esther .

Stranger

Not sure man could number the times Israel strayed from God.
Read Jeremiah 32:30-35
As a nation they sinned during the Exodus, during Joshua's leadership, during the Judges, during the Kings, during the prophets and countless times in between.
Surfice to say Israel enjoyed God's patience and grace from Abraham to the modern day.

 

[Stranger]

I believe.....I believe God is behind every nation of the OT....it was necessary in order to fulfill prophesy of the coming Messiah and where and when He would be born, who the king would be at that time and those who would come into His life and become His disciples....So Yeah there was a reason for the story of Esther and the saving of the Jewish people under the King's rule.

I agree that God is behind every nation, and that He did provide this deliverance. I don't see anything necessary to fulfill prophecy of Christ's coming accomplished in the book of Esther. Remember God had His people in Jerusalem already. That is where Christ would come. Christ would not go up to Persia where those who decided to stay, stayed.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Not sure man could number the times Israel strayed from God.
Read Jeremiah 32:30-35
As a nation they sinned during the Exodus, during Joshua's leadership, during the Judges, during the Kings, during the prophets and countless times in between.
Surfice to say Israel enjoyed God's patience and grace from Abraham to the modern day.

Ok...so?

Stranger

 

[Truth]

Many believe God no longer deals with Israel as His people. It is believed, they say, that the Church is now the Israel of God, the people of God.

Yet, if that be the case, why the book of Esther? If ever there was a book that showed God's faithfulness to Israel, it is the book of Esther. And that in light of Israel's disobedience and judgement.

For the book of Esther is not about the faith of the obedient Jews who returned in the book of Ezra and Nehemiah. It is about those who did not, who, for various reasons stayed in their land of captivity.

So to any who believe God has turned away from Israel, consider this book.

Stranger

In the days of King Ahasuerus, He ruled over 127 Provinces, from India to Ethiopia. Now that is a very large extension of land to rule!
when Mor'de'cia Heard about Ha'man's decree, He Mor'de cia tore his clothing, and put on sackcloth and ashes, and went to the King's gate!
And in every Province where the King's decree arrived, there was Great mourning among the Jews, with Fasting, weeping, and wailing; and Many Lay in sackcloth and ashes! Esther 4: 1-3!
Now there were Thousands Of Jews within the Province's! And they were Crying Out to God, even though they continued to live outside of the Land that God gave them, because of the Promise to the Patriarchs!
God was keeping His Promise to the Father's, I believe that what happened in the Book of Esther, was that God intervened in a Shadow Type, of what took place in the extermination of Jew's during the Holocaust, Ha'man wanted to destroy them all! They were in Captivity because of disobedience, and they will suffer chastisement, but it wasn't time for complete elimination. And the Jew's only took up defense Against those that came Against them, thus keeping peace with the rest of those they dwelt among!

 

[Enoch111]

Really? It is evident that they trusted God? Where is their prayer to God for their deliverance?

Again we can take the example of Lot, who was delivered in spite of himself, and though we do not see any prayers for deliverance in the book of Esther, Esther and the Jews fasted for three days and three nights. Presumably they turned to God at that time.

ESTHER 4
14 For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?
15 Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer,
16 Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.

 

[Nancy]

Yes, all through the Bible God was constantly and consistently giving disobedient Israel repeated chances to come around.

Yes He sure did. Obedient or not, they were still His chosen people, He still loved them.

 

[faithfulness]

King: God, the Father. The Son at His right hand.
Queen: The city(Spirit) from above: The mother of us all.

Is Mordecai a type/shadow of The Son at His right hand?
Thank you for this.

 

[Enoch111]

Is Mordecai a type/shadow of The Son at His right hand?
Thank you for this.

It would appear that Esther presents many types to us -- the Father, the Son, the Church, and Satan.

 

[faithfulness]

It would appear that Esther presents many types to us -- the Father, the Son, the Church, and Satan.

15 Now when the turn of Esther, the daughter of Abihail the uncle of Mordecai who had taken her as his daughter, came to go in to the king, she did not request anything except what Hegai, the king's eunuch who was in charge of the women, advised.
Wasn't Hegai the Holy Spirit? She didn't want anything...he chose for her/she submitted. I remember this story from years ago...beautiful.

 

[Stranger]

In the days of King Ahasuerus, He ruled over 127 Provinces, from India to Ethiopia. Now that is a very large extension of land to rule!
when Mor'de'cia Heard about Ha'man's decree, He Mor'de cia tore his clothing, and put on sackcloth and ashes, and went to the King's gate!
And in every Province where the King's decree arrived, there was Great mourning among the Jews, with Fasting, weeping, and wailing; and Many Lay in sackcloth and ashes! Esther 4: 1-3!
Now there were Thousands Of Jews within the Province's! And they were Crying Out to God, even though they continued to live outside of the Land that God gave them, because of the Promise to the Patriarchs!
God was keeping His Promise to the Father's, I believe that what happened in the Book of Esther, was that God intervened in a Shadow Type, of what took place in the extermination of Jew's during the Holocaust, Ha'man wanted to destroy them all! They were in Captivity because of disobedience, and they will suffer chastisement, but it wasn't time for complete elimination. And the Jew's only took up defense Against those that came Against them, thus keeping peace with the rest of those they dwelt among!

Yes, there was much wailing and crying and sackcloth and ashes. But we are not told that they cried out to God. I am sure they did. Was God on their mind at this time. I'm sure He was. Yet no mention of Him. And if they had been concerned and believed the Promise to the Patriarchs, they would have went back to Israel when the call went out. Yet they stayed. Trouble comes, and yes much wailing.

And yet how out of touch is Esther with sackcloth and ashes. She at first sent Mordecai a change of clothes to replace his clothes of mourning. (4:4)

You are correct. God was keeping His Promise. Even to an Israel that was being disobedient and refused to return. But He did so providentially. He did so through the normal outworkings of events. Nothing in this book says, 'Thus saith the Lord' or 'And the Lord heard their cry'. God did not even allow His name to be written in the book. Yet who can deny His hand all the way through it for the people who were and are disobedient to Him, but to whom the promises were given.

So, as I said in the first post, those who think God is finished with Israel, that the Church is now Israel, should reflect on this book of Esther.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Again we can take the example of Lot, who was delivered in spite of himself, and though we do not see any prayers for deliverance in the book of Esther, Esther and the Jews fasted for three days and three nights. Presumably they turned to God at that time.

ESTHER 4
14 For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?
15 Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer,
16 Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.

Yes, they fasted, and wailed, and some put on sackcloth and ashes. Which was so foreign to Esther that she sent Mordecai a change of clothes. (4:4) We are never told they prayed. Never told that God heard their prayer. God doesn't even have His name written in this book. They deny Him in staying in Persia instead of returning to Him. He denies them His name. Yet, as said, He is true to His promises even then.

Thus any who think God has finished with Israel as a nation, that He will not accomplish His promises to them as a nation, need to consider this book.

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

Many believe God no longer deals with Israel as His people. It is believed, they say, that the Church is now the Israel of God, the people of God.

Yet, if that be the case, why the book of Esther? If ever there was a book that showed God's faithfulness to Israel, it is the book of Esther. And that in light of Israel's disobedience and judgement.

For the book of Esther is not about the faith of the obedient Jews who returned in the book of Ezra and Nehemiah. It is about those who did not, who, for various reasons stayed in their land of captivity.

So to any who believe God has turned away from Israel, consider this book.

Stranger

The problem is not knowing who's Israel

 

[Deborah_]

There is plenty to consider. God in this story to Esther is not trying to get them to return. In fact, He is not even mentioned. God's remnant did return already. See (Ezra). So, did God deliver these Jews?

Stranger

The Jews at risk of annihilation were all the Jews living in the Persian Empire. Not just the Jews in Babylon and Susa, but the Jews who had returned to Judea as well (Judea was a province within the Persian Empire). If Haman had succeeded, the Jewish nation would have been completely wiped out - and there would have been no Messiah.

 

[Stranger]

The Jews at risk of annihilation were all the Jews living in the Persian Empire. Not just the Jews in Babylon and Susa, but the Jews who had returned to Judea as well (Judea was a province within the Persian Empire). If Haman had succeeded, the Jewish nation would have been completely wiped out - and there would have been no Messiah.

Well, yes, if Haman had been allowed to do what he wanted to do there would have been no Messiah. But Haman would not succeed even if Esther and Mordecai were not in the position they were in. Which Mordecai recognized. (4:14) If God is willing to provide a deliverance for His people through those who are unwilling to be called His people, and who He is unwilling to identify His name to, then how much more will God deliver those who do want to be identified as His people and He, their God? God could have just as easily let the Persian Jews die and suffer for their sins in not returning as they should. But He didn't.

In other words, God was honoring the promises of the Abrahamic Covenant where He said, "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:" Even though the Persian Jews were living outside the land, away from their blessings.

Now that Messiah has come, has been rejected by the nation of Israel, will God be untrue to His promises that the nation of Israel will be the priestly leading nation of the world?

Stranger

 

[Truth]

Yes, there was much wailing and crying and sackcloth and ashes. But we are not told that they cried out to God. I am sure they did. Was God on their mind at this time. I'm sure He was. Yet no mention of Him. And if they had been concerned and believed the Promise to the Patriarchs, they would have went back to Israel when the call went out. Yet they stayed. Trouble comes, and yes much wailing.

And yet how out of touch is Esther with sackcloth and ashes. She at first sent Mordecai a change of clothes to replace his clothes of mourning. (4:4)

You are correct. God was keeping His Promise. Even to an Israel that was being disobedient and refused to return. But He did so providentially. He did so through the normal outworkings of events. Nothing in this book says, 'Thus saith the Lord' or 'And the Lord heard their cry'. God did not even allow His name to be written in the book. Yet who can deny His hand all the way through it for the people who were and are disobedient to Him, but to whom the promises were given.

So, as I said in the first post, those who think God is finished with Israel, that the Church is now Israel, should reflect on this book of Esther.

Stranger

I do Agree! I do not believe that God is finished with Israel, I also do not believe in Replacement Theology. My belief is that for the Sake of the Father's God will continue to keep His hand on Israel! God is not mentioned in the book of Esther, But who else would intervene?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Is Mordecai a type/shadow of The Son at His right hand?
Thank you for this.

This is difficult because I don’t want to lead anyone astray. What does it say to you? What do you hear? See, I’m not good as the history of it. As I read this thread I realize how little I know.

Esther 7:10
[10] So they hanged Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai. Then was the king's wrath pacified.

As the woman who is forced to drink the bitter water: Numbers 5:28-30
[28] And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. [29] This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; [30] Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord , and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

We have an intercessor. That is what I hear in the book of Esther. But see it is not that simple. There are many layers. Even with the Queen that refused and rejected to show her beauty, she was replaced by Esther. This could be Israel which God spoke of as “beauty” and of her rejection for the love of this world over the Love of God...so she was replaced by “bands” because what the King desires most is mercy. Zechariah 11:7[7] And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.

Isaiah 59:16-17
[16] And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. [17] For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

As the Wife of God... was not the physical Israel set to be His Queen and rule with Him in His throne? But her beauty (vanity) failed to demonstrate mercy by her works. If we can put aside gender, we will see our King is to reign and who will reign with the King from His throne as Queen (of His body)? we are to be Elohim. We are to rule with Christ as “Elohim” in the spirit of: 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Which is beauty in mercy instead of vanity of a nation seeking her own, clothing herself in glory.

Also, don’t listen to me. I could very easily be wrong: what does He(Spirit) say to you when you are in the Word? That is what matters...follow that, His voice never the voice of everyone else.

 

[faithfulness]

This is difficult because I don’t want to lead anyone astray. What does it say to you? What do you hear? See, I’m not good as the history of it. As I read this thread I realize how little I know.

Esther 7:10
[10] So they hanged Haman on the gallows that he had prepared for Mordecai. Then was the king's wrath pacified.

As the woman who is forced to drink the bitter water: Numbers 5:28-30
[28] And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. [29] This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; [30] Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord , and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

We have an intercessor. That is what I hear in the book of Esther. But see it is not that simple. There are many layers. Even with the Queen that refused and rejected to show her beauty, she was replaced by Esther. This could be Israel which God spoke of as “beauty” and of her rejection for the love of this world over the Love of God...so she was replaced by “bands” because what the King desires most is mercy. Zechariah 11:7[7] And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.

Isaiah 59:16-17
[16] And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. [17] For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

As the Wife of God... was not the physical Israel set to be His Queen and rule with Him in His throne? But her beauty (vanity) failed to demonstrate mercy by her works. If we can put aside gender, we will see our King is to reign and who will reign with the King from His throne as Queen (of His body)? we are to be Elohim. We are to rule with Christ as “Elohim” in the spirit of: 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Which is beauty in mercy instead of vanity of a nation seeking her own, clothing herself in glory.

Also, don’t listen to me. I could very easily be wrong: what does He(Spirit) say to you when you are in the Word? That is what matters...follow that, His voice never the voice of everyone else.

Thank you for the exhortation/challenge. I hear you--clear as crystal.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you for the exhortation/challenge. I hear you--clear as crystal.

Should add in relation to 1 Corinthians “13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own,...”

John 16:12-13
[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

“...will shew you things to come.” bolded as intimate to you.

 

[faithfulness]

Thank you for the exhortation/challenge. I hear you--clear as crystal.

This is hot off the press I just remembered one time I shared...that came from my heart re "Grace hath appeared...Grace teaches us...Receive not the grace of God in vain"...a brother immediately said to me "God hates pride!" ...OK
So, next time I shared what I thought the Lord gave me on Instruction and the seriousness of Taking Heed...the same brother said in a disappointing voice, "Well, the anointing builds...later implying in so many words that I have no anointing to share the Word.
So, I take the words afresh today...He who has an ear to hear...are we listening to what The Spirit is saying?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Receive not the grace of God in vain"...a brother immediately said to me "God hates pride!"

John 16:12
[12] I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Acts 9:15-16
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Who showed Paul...the Lord(through an intimate relationship)

We might ask: Are we ready to bear the truth?? Philippians 1:29
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;