Why hell must exist

[Beebster]

You've emphasised 'THE WORD'. How do YOU interpret this phrase?

I see or try to see Christ everywhere in scripture, and he is all over that.

Peace

 

[XtraPercept]

Satan is an angel and a created being. That's who I was referring to

Angel? In essence, but not in the understanding as you convey it, because no, it is not a conscious being, a willful entity, or any form of action capable force.

Do you mean evil spirits and holy spirits?

These exist, but again, not as you understand them. You are anthropomorphizing metaphors for various perspectives, concepts, and ideas.

They are also referred to as gates, which lead us to points upon mountains, from which people draw water from the rivers therein of the gods they serve.

There is a language of the Spirit you may only discover by looking up and learning the meanings of many different words.

 

[One 2 question]

I see or try to see Christ everywhere in scripture, and he is all over that.

Peace

Oh OK. When you say THE WORD you are refering to the Person Jesus Christ.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

I thought you may've been refering to it as something else like a body of words like the bible or the scriptures.

 

[Luther7]

The existence of hell is a concept that some find difficult or unwilling to grasp. They are unable to reconcile the seeming paradox of such a place existing alongside a loving God who wants the best for us. Alternate explanations have existed to explain it away. However, I believe that not only does such a place exist, but that it is necessary. I will give my theological justifications for the existence of hell while also addressing some of the common criticisms. My reasoning is based upon free will, rather than determinism, playing a major role in how God deals with humanity and by taking a literal interpretation of scripture (by literal, I don’t disregard such things as symbolism and idioms). If either of those precepts cannot be agreed upon, then a consensus cannot be reached.

Let’s start at the beginning. When Adam sinned, it caused a spiritual separation between him and God. And because Adam was the first, the master template if you will, all humanity became separated from God and born into a fallen state at birth. The result of this fallen state resulted in a physical death followed by a second death, which is the final judgment and the lake of fire (Rev 20:14, 21:8).
The reason for this second death is because God and sin cannot mix. It would be like trying to mix oil and water, an impossibility. A fallen being cannot withstand being in the presence of a holy God. That meant that humanity, when they physically died, could not automatically ascend to heaven with God. A divine intervention was needed.

The remedy, of course, was sending Jesus to atone for the sins of humanity. He became the perfect sacrifice to bear the wages of sin and pay the price in our stead. And because of His divinity, He was able to atone for everyone's sins, past, present, and future, simultaneously, once and for all. But just because He paid the price for all does not mean that it comes automatically. We still have to receive it. God has opened the door, but it’s up to you to walk through it. It must be our choice to accept that pardon or not because God wants people to come to Him willingly. So, He has offered humanity a choice: to live with him for eternity or to live apart from him for all eternity. Those are the only two possible outcomes.

Before I continue, I would like to dispel the erroneous assumption that everyone wants to be saved and go to heaven. That is not true. There are countless people who want nothing to do with God (Jhn 3:19). Such individuals would never be content in heaven being around a God they have no interest in serving. Our heaven would be their hell. Moreover, they would have no desire to be around believers who willingly worship God. There would be eternal contention between the two groups, making it no different than how it is on earth.

So, what does God do with those who don’t wish to spend eternity with him? They cannot go to heaven for the reasons already established, and He will not violate their free will choice. Besides, why would God want to spend an eternity with someone who doesn’t want to spend an eternity with him? The only solution is to give them a place of their own. But how do we reconcile the reality of souls going to a place of eternal torment? And I would distinguish between being tormented and being tortured; they are not the same thing. We can do so in several ways.

You said: "But just because He paid the price for all does not mean that it comes automatically. We still have to receive it."

Actually if Jesus paid the price, God's wrath is satisfied. It's not a conditional payment. It was made in FULL. And God is not looking to us to see what we will do, because we already turned against Him.

We believe because it is the result of the Holy Spirit working in us. His work, not ours.

Titus 3:5:
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

People don't go to heaven because they " had it in them" to make the "right decision" for Christ, while others " just didn't have what it takes". Sounds alot like humanistic teaching.

It is ALL by God's grace and mercy.

And that's even more of a reason not to believe in an eternal place of torture. Those who reject Christ ( because we all would if not for His mercy), will simply no longer exist.

 

[Beebster]

I thought you may've been refering to it as something else like a body of words like the bible or the scriptures.

No, you got it, Christ.

 

[RLT63]

Far too many words Jericho.
You know the adage, 'the more the words the less the meaning'

If you can’t be brilliant be brief

 

[Luther7]

The existence of hell is a concept that some find difficult or unwilling to grasp. They are unable to reconcile the seeming paradox of such a place existing alongside a loving God who wants the best for us. Alternate explanations have existed to explain it away. However, I believe that not only does such a place exist, but that it is necessary. I will give my theological justifications for the existence of hell while also addressing some of the common criticisms. My reasoning is based upon free will, rather than determinism, playing a major role in how God deals with humanity and by taking a literal interpretation of scripture (by literal, I don’t disregard such things as symbolism and idioms). If either of those precepts cannot be agreed upon, then a consensus cannot be reached.

Let’s start at the beginning. When Adam sinned, it caused a spiritual separation between him and God. And because Adam was the first, the master template if you will, all humanity became separated from God and born into a fallen state at birth. The result of this fallen state resulted in a physical death followed by a second death, which is the final judgment and the lake of fire (Rev 20:14, 21:8).
The reason for this second death is because God and sin cannot mix. It would be like trying to mix oil and water, an impossibility. A fallen being cannot withstand being in the presence of a holy God. That meant that humanity, when they physically died, could not automatically ascend to heaven with God. A divine intervention was needed.

The remedy, of course, was sending Jesus to atone for the sins of humanity. He became the perfect sacrifice to bear the wages of sin and pay the price in our stead. And because of His divinity, He was able to atone for everyone's sins, past, present, and future, simultaneously, once and for all. But just because He paid the price for all does not mean that it comes automatically. We still have to receive it. God has opened the door, but it’s up to you to walk through it. It must be our choice to accept that pardon or not because God wants people to come to Him willingly. So, He has offered humanity a choice: to live with him for eternity or to live apart from him for all eternity. Those are the only two possible outcomes.

Before I continue, I would like to dispel the erroneous assumption that everyone wants to be saved and go to heaven. That is not true. There are countless people who want nothing to do with God (Jhn 3:19). Such individuals would never be content in heaven being around a God they have no interest in serving. Our heaven would be their hell. Moreover, they would have no desire to be around believers who willingly worship God. There would be eternal contention between the two groups, making it no different than how it is on earth.

So, what does God do with those who don’t wish to spend eternity with him? They cannot go to heaven for the reasons already established, and He will not violate their free will choice. Besides, why would God want to spend an eternity with someone who doesn’t want to spend an eternity with him? The only solution is to give them a place of their own. But how do we reconcile the reality of souls going to a place of eternal torment? And I would distinguish between being tormented and being tortured; they are not the same thing. We can do so in several ways.

I'm sorry but when I saw your statement:
"So, what does God do with those who don’t wish to spend eternity with him?"
I believe it is important to remember that no one seeks after God, no not one. Our desire to want to know God and our relationship with Him was due to the " quickening" of our spirit with the Holy Spirit. Until that happens we may talk the talk, but it goes nowhere until God opens our eyes ( And it's pretty obvious that we can't open our own eyes).

 

[Luther7]

Where will we find that mentioned in the Bible?

First of all, “the rich man and Lazarus” is a parable, not a literal account. Taken literally it is ridiculous. Do you imagine that “heaven and hell” are within speaking distance to each other? And that a drop of water on a man’s tongue would cool them in a blazing fire? The scenario is clearly figurative.

The rich man is in “hades”, which is not any kind of “hell”...it is the grave.
The “grave” in Hebrew is “Sheol” and as it says in Eccl 9:5 10, it shows that the dead are in an unconscious state in that place.
Jesus also said of his friend Lazarus, that he was “sleeping” and that he was going to “awaken” him (John 11:11-14).....wherewas Lazarus before Jesus raised him?.....he are out of his grave because it is the place where the dead ”sleep”. They are not consciously existing somewhere apart from their body.

Since “hell” (hades) is the grave, those awaiting a resurrection, don’t know anything until Jesus calls them out of those graves. (John 5:28-29) No one has a choice about going to the grave....it’s somewhere we all go.

“Gehenna” OTOH is also translated as “hell”, but it is a place where death is permanent. It s an “everlasting punishment” to be cut off from life forever. Why does it have to involve everlasting torture in flames?

The choice is actually “life or death”...it never was “heaven or hell”. What was Adam told if he ate the forbidden fruit?.....only that he would die...nothing more.

Can you tell me what purpose is served by such an awful place?
God’s law to Israel involved penalties that were in line with the severity of the crime. The highest penalty under the law was death...no punishment involved torture of any kind. And all less serious crimes always had the option of repentance and forgiveness....and compensation was paid to the victim.

Christendom’s “hell” is the work of a sadist....not a God of love.

Very well said. Just like Luke 16, there is spiritual / allegorical language in Revelation like the "lake of fire". However in Revelation 21:8 God shows us that this lake which burns with fire and brimstone is the second death, which is very literal. The wages of sin is death.

 

[Jericho]

I believe it is important to remember that no one seeks after God, no not one.

Sounds like determinism or Calvinism. There's plenty of people who do seek after God, and there's plenty of people who reject God. Free will is central to the gospels.

Just like Luke 16, there is spiritual / allegorical language in Revelation

If all things be allegorical, then what things be literal? I would describe Revelation as symbolic rather than allegorical. Allegory is of Greek origin.

 

[Luther7]

Sounds like determinism or Calvinism. There's plenty of people who do seek after God, and there's plenty of people who reject God. Free will is central to the gospels.



If all things be allegorical, then what things be literal? I would describe Revelation as symbolic rather than allegorical. Allegory is of Greek origin.

Romans 3:9-12 KJV
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. [12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

No one seeks after God because we are dead in sins and trespasses:

Ephesians 2:1-2 KJV
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:


An allegory is a narrative, poem, picture, or other work of art in which the characters, settings, and events act as symbols to convey deeper moral, spiritual, political, or social truths.
The Bible is full of allegorical language.