Why hell must exist

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Aunty Jane

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I have some really crazy dreams at times which I wouldn't dare to interpret. The frustrating ones is when the narrative is really interesting but my cat gets up on the bed and licks my nose and meows in my face, waking me up and ruining the ending. Once I dreamed that I was preaching and the congregation walked out on me. What would that tell me about my preaching ministry? :-)

I have recurring dreams where (once I was a school teacher) I needed to get to class but couldn't find the classroom. Others when I am driving my car and the brakes won't work. Just last night I was in my car in the dream and the power steering wouldn't work. Other times I have dreamed of being late for work, and have been relieved when I woke up and realised it was a dream. My dreams are sometimes so vivid it is just like being there.

But I don't try to ascribe them to the Holy Spirit, nor do I try to interpret them. I think they come from my imaginary fears.
Actually, frustration dreams are usually a mirror of what is going on in your life. Things you can normally control, are out of control in those dreams. No one really knows why we dream but animals do it too.
Some suggest it’s the way the mind gets rid of dross. Or others suggest it might be a warning that stress levels are getting too high.

Recurring dreams usually have have something hidden deep that is relived until we identify it and deal with it.
I follow the example of the Bereans, who, when they heard Paul's preaching, they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether what he was preaching was correct. I think that there are so many voices and false prophets, that it is very difficult to discern what is true or false. For me, the only secure way of finding out is through searching the Scriptures to see what Holy Spirit has said in them. Otherwise receiving new revelations, dreams, visions, etc., without verifying them through the written Scriptures is like skating on thin ice. I prefer not to take that chance.
That is a good policy. The Beroeans were an excellent example of why we need to check everything out via God’s word. Christendom is so divided now, that God doesn’t use dreams and visions to instruct his people anymore...it would be too confusing. Rather he has his “good news” preached (Matt 24:14) and as he observes a response, he “draws” that one to his truth, adding them to a global family whom he has brought into one fold. (John 6:44; 65)
 
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One 2 question

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That is a good policy. The Beroeans were an excellent example of why we need to check everything out via God’s word. Christendom is so divided now, that God doesn’t use dreams and visions to instruct his people anymore...it would be too confusing. Rather he has his “good news” preached (Matt 24:14) and as he observes a response, he “draws” that one to his truth, adding them to a global family whom he has brought into one fold. (John 6:44; 65)
AJ when did God tell you this? You can't use God's expressed thoughts in the bibles. This lie is not there. Did God really say.....I don't use dreams and visions to instruct my people anymore...it would be too confusing.

Did God tell you directly in a vision or a dream? Or like many other people did you get this from someone else?

The reality, God has never stopped communicating through visions and dreams. I love receiving visions from Christ and living my life by them. They reveal new truths of our Creator, Who He is and what He does and will do in our future.

So no, Satan hasn't caused God to abandon His ways and means of expressing truth. No one and nothing could come anywhere close to being that powerful and affective. Sorry, I'm certainly not elevating Satan beyond the position, influence and role God has assigned to him.

Question - Who is sovereign? The Creator of angels or an angel refered to as the devil, satan?

My encouragement is to give glory to Whom it is due. The sovereign Creator of everything that has ever existed or will exist is worthy of praise not some created being.
 
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One 2 question

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as he observes a response, he “draws” that one to his truth, adding them to a global family whom he has brought into one fold. (John 6:44; 65)
What a master manipulater our Creator is. I'm so glad He exercises this Divine ability. Yes the Potter who imagines an object, designs it, then creates it for whatever use He desires.
 

One 2 question

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Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, THE WORD is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Isa 45:22-23)
You've emphasised 'THE WORD'. How do YOU interpret this phrase?
 

Paul Christensen

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Again, it seems like you have been taught and convinced to find truth in the bibles. YOU better stick with that source unless the Spirit of Truth uses another means.

You have determined that dreams aren't your thing so don't go to that empty or toxic well.

Good for YOU. Go for it if this benefits YOU.

Personally visions are our go to. The Spirit of Christ communicates to me primarily by means of visions.

Dreams aren't our thing either.

I occasionally search out the scriptures to find out God's thoughts regarding my life. Ie. When it came to the Covid outbreak the Spirit spoke to me directly and through the bible. Gods words in the bible didnt provide direction for me personally whether to be vaccinated or not. His will for ME came directly from Them.

Again, this is YOUR experience or belief. But for others of us its easy to differentiate between our Masters voice and that of others. After decades of communicating with eachother we have become very acquainted with eachother. So no fear of being guided by an unfamiliar voice. This is the role and responsibility of the Spirit Jesus sent to be with us and IN us. He leads and guides us into all truth.

Yes, stick to your lane. Some go to a well to access water. Some go to a water tap. Others drink from a river. Others a lake. I find comfort in knowing that all gifts of truth come down from the same Divine Person in heaven yet I can access them by various means. Hey, but that's me.
Kicking the player instead of the ball doesn't contribute to good natured debate. Therefore I won't comment further in order not to be contentious.
 

Aunty Jane

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AJ when did God tell you this? You can't use God's expressed thoughts in the bibles. This lie is not there. Did God really say.....I don't use dreams and visions to instruct my people anymore...it would be too confusing.
When you understand what the gifts of the spirit were sent to demonstrate, and why they were used by Jesus and his apostles in the first century, you will see what Paul meant when said....
1 Cor 13:8-11, 13...
“Love never fails. As for prophecies, they will be brought to an end. As for tongues, they will stop. As for knowledge, it will be brought to an end. We know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, what is partial will be brought to an end. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, reason like a child, think like a child. But now that I have become a man, I’ve put an end to childish things. . . . Now faith, hope, and love remiain—these three things—and the greatest of these is love.” (CEB)

When Christianity was one faith, all those things experienced by the ones who received the spirit, benefitted the whole congregation. The gifts were given so that all could build their faith on the same beliefs, but we don’t see that today.... close now to the “end” of this corrupt world system, Christendom is split up into many fragmented denominations with various beliefs and practices....if Christ came back tomorrow, who would he claim as his own? Who would qualify as his one flock? He knows his sheep, but do his sheep know him?

Matt 7:21-23 illuminates the dilemma.....who are these ones offering their excuses to Jesus and receiving his complete rejection? It does appears as though they were confident that they were serving their “Lord” appropriately? Yet he didn’t think so....saying “I never knew you”....and calling them “workers of lawlessness”. Who then are the genuine “believers?

Did God tell you directly in a vision or a dream? Or like many other people did you get this from someone else?
If I did get a vision or dream, I would probably wonder about demonic activity as I have experienced that.
But if it persisted, I would go and have my mental health evaluated.

I do not believe that God operates that way anymore. The apostolic period was the time for those things and they are long past.
I got it from the Bible (quoted above). Visions and dreams, like the other gifts of God’s spirit were for a time and a purpose...they were to cease because these gifts were for spiritual infants who had to grow up and learn to become Christ-like in their words and actions. God’s prophets of old and his apostles were given these gifts.....but those who claim to have them these days, more often than not are not mentally well.

The devil is a mimic as well, and he can do tricks that we might assume are from God. He can “transform himself into an angel of light”.....fooling those who are not awake to his methods....we should not under estimate him....
The reality, God has never stopped communicating through visions and dreams. I love receiving visions from Christ and living my life by them. They reveal new truths of our Creator, Who He is and what He does and will do in our future.
That is for you to evaluate for yourself.....I personally operate by Scripture, not by supernatural occurrences.
If all who received those “gifts” were cohesive in their beliefs and practices, that might be a different story.
So no, Satan hasn't caused God to abandon His ways and means of expressing truth. No one and nothing could come anywhere close to being that powerful and affective. Sorry, I'm certainly not elevating Satan beyond the position, influence and role God has assigned to him.
What position has he been assigned that means he cannot fool people who fall for his deceptions? He is a mimic and he has demonstrated that he has power....more power than humans do.
What God did in Eden was hand over rulership of the human race to the one they chose to obey....there was a purpose to that....and it had a time limit.
Question - Who is sovereign? The Creator of angels or an angel refered to as the devil, satan?
Our Sovereign is the one we choose to rule over us. But not everyone chooses the right ruler.
If the devil received world rulership and even offered “all the kingdoms of the world” to Jesus in exchange for one act of worship, how much of the world does he rule? (Luke 4:5-7; 1John 5:19)
Through whom does he rule?
My encouragement is to give glory to Whom it is due. The sovereign Creator of everything that has ever existed or will exist is worthy of praise not some created being.
Who is “some created being”? Are you referring to “God’s only begotten son”?
We know that God created all things, but the only creation he performed alone was his “firstborn”.
Paul tells us that Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation” (Col 1:15-17) which makes him part of that creation.
It also says that God created all things “through” the agency of his Son. So Father and son were a team in creation...the “us” and “our” in Gen 1:26.

Jesus speaking in Rev 3:14 calls himself “the beginning of God’s creation”.....I believe him.

If their relationship was not that of a “father and son” then why not call themselves by name?

What Father is his own son? What Son is his own father?

How is Jesus a “mediator between God and men”?...
if he is God, why don’t we need a mediator between us and him?

How is God his own High Priest? Or his own apostle? (Heb 3:1)

How is God his own servant? (Acts 4:27, 30)

Can you explain?
 

XtraPercept

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@Aunty Jane , @One 2 question ,

If I may interject, I agree with you both.

AJ, I agree that the True Faith is unifying, in that it is singular as the Father is one, as it unifies the Father with the Son and with all who believe.

O2Q, I agree that we may place no limit on what God can do because only He establishes boundaries, borders, and limits because He has none of these as they all issue forth from Him. It is by His eternal principalities that all things operate from Beginning to present to End, and this will never change.

The God of all creation, the God of truth, the Father of Jesus Christ and the Spirit of the Son are enthroned in my heart as He should be. All will return to Him, as His Word will fulfill His intent to the fullest.
 
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XtraPercept

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Satan. An angel. A created being

Ezekiel put words to an angel. We see in Scripture how a variety of terms have been coopted by disobedience for the assembly of mystery doctrines and vengful theology to fabricate a concoction of sub deities (angels, demons, satan, a trichotomized god, etc).

It is the reader who imposes personhood on what is being depicted, and because of the reader's insistence in the veracity of the limits they impose on the words they read, the reader ceases to reach deeper and is thus trapped in the lies they refuse to confront.
 

One 2 question

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Ezekiel put words to an angel. We see in Scripture how a variety of terms have been coopted by disobedience for the assembly of mystery doctrines and vengful theology to fabricate a concoction of sub deities (angels, demons, satan, a trichotomized god, etc).

It is the reader who imposes personhood on what is being depicted, and because of the reader's insistence in the veracity of the limits they impose on the words they read, the reader ceases to reach deeper and is thus trapped in the lies they refuse to confront.
Yes, this is the responsibility of the Creator to ensure accurate understanding of truth if and when necessary for Their benefit. Otherwise various interpretation of anything brings confusion. Maybe like when He caused confusion when He introduced various languages to the global human community.
 

amigo de christo

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Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, THE WORD is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Isa 45:22-23)
Look unto WHO . exactly . Without belief faith in CHRIST JESUS
they are gonna wail . To give this world false hope is to be only a co helper to their own destruction .
Preach JESUS and the dire need to Beleive on HIM and leave the damanation to GOD .
For he who beleives Shall be saved .
He who beleives in ME is not condemned but he who believes not is condemned for he believes not
Leave the damnation to GOD and let us not add to or take from it .
Rather just preach THE DIRE need to Beleive on JESUS .
 
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Marvelloustime

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Look unto WHO . exactly . Without belief faith in CHRIST JESUS
they are gonna wail . To give this world false hope is to be only a co helper to their own destruction .
Preach JESUS and the dire need to Beleive on HIM and leave the damanation to GOD .
For he who beleives Shall be saved .
He who beleives in ME is not condemned but he who believes not is condemned for he believes not
Leave the damnation to GOD and let us not add to or take from it .
Rather just preach THE DIRE need to Beleive on JESUS .
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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Look unto WHO . exactly . Without belief faith in CHRIST JESUS
they are gonna wail . To give this world false hope is to be only a co helper to their own destruction .
Preach JESUS and the dire need to Beleive on HIM and leave the damanation to GOD .
For he who beleives Shall be saved .
He who beleives in ME is not condemned but he who believes not is condemned for he believes not
Leave the damnation to GOD and let us not add to or take from it .
Rather just preach THE DIRE need to Beleive on JESUS .
@amigo de christo
save-image.png
 
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One 2 question

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You believe there is more than one Spirit, which is what I sought to oppose by my post.

Your attempt to concur with what I posted does not reflect accurate understanding of what I said.
Satan is an angel and a created being. That's who I was referring to