WHY I COULD NEVER CHOOSE TO BE A PROTESTANT. (one stupid thread title is as good as another)

[Phoneman777]

TRANSLATION:

I am unable to back up what I have just stated and I have no answer for you Marymog therefor I will go into attack mode.

Mary

Willful ignorance on your part doesn't constitute inability to provide evidence on my part. That the Papacy for century after century outlawed the free dissemination of the Bible in a common language of the people is simply a matter of history.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ummmmm, WHY would you call me a "Jesuit"??
That is a priestly order - and I'm NOT an ordained priest.

Why do you render such blind, undying love and devotion to an institution that has shed more blood than any other in the history of the world?

 

[epostle1]

Instead of going to wikipedia for your theology - try reading the actual writings of the Early Church on the matter.

While you're at at - tell me the name and/Or the whereabouts of this "true Christian church" that was persecuted by the Catholic Church. Finally - tell me why Jesus LIED when he said that His church would NOT succumb to the gates of Hell (Matt. 16:18).

The Early Church on the Primacy of the Church and Bishop of Rome:
Clement of Rome
Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1[A.D. 95]).
***Pope Clement was called to intervene (from Rome) in the Church at Corinth when there was a rebellion against the ordained clergy there.

Ignatius of Antioch
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).

Clement of Alexandria
The blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? "Behold, we have left all and have followed you" [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).

Tertullian
The Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).

Letter of Clement to James
Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon Peter, who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).

Cyprian
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).

The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you," he says, "that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church" . . . On him he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but ONE CHURCH and ONE CHAIR.

So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he should desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church? (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4 [A.D. 251]).

Optatus
In the city of Rome the Episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head — that is why he is also called Cephas — of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would presume to set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church" (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [circa A.D. 367]).

But there is a problem, BofL. For radical Protestants, this is history, and history is their enemy.

21. Many Protestants take a dim view towards Christian history in general, esp. the years from 313 (Constantine's conversion) to 1517 (Luther's arrival). This ignorance and hostility to Catholic Tradition leads to theological relativism, anti-Catholicism, and a constant, unnecessary process of "reinventing the wheel." Holy Mary: 150 Reasons why I'm a Catholic

It never ceases to amaze me the gymnastics, excuses and denials when the early church fathers are ignored. They say,"its not inspired". Does that mean it's worthless? Or, "its man made commentary and prone to bias". How can there be a bias when the ECF were unanimous across centuries? Bias against who? the heretics? So the radical Protestant is forced to write history according to their needs, and reconstruct early church history according to the Bible alone WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE.

So they invent brainless accusations like the Catholic Church persecuted the true believers. That's a whole new level of stupid.

 

[epostle1]

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us." Ecc 1:9-10

What does Ecc 1:9-10 have to do with the Council of Constantinople where the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were formalized as equal? If you are going to have "Holy Spirit" in nearly every line you post, don't you think you should have an idea how the teaching developed? I know its in the Bible, but that wasn't enough to stop the Bible alone heretics.
There is a big difference between finding OT types, and having them formalized to refute heresies.

 

[brakelite]

So they invent brainless accusations like the Catholic Church persecuted the true believers. That's a whole new level of stupid.

The only stupid part of this are the deliberate lies and obfuscating that come from Catholics to defend the indefensible. Millions were tortured and died over a period of over 1000 years at the hands of the Catholic puppet states under the excuse of beli eving a form of Christianity that differed from Catholicism. Stupid? Your own church boasts that they did this, and to this day defend it as necessary!!!! You are correct only on one aspect. They were not true believers in Catholicism. They were not Catholics. you got that right. They were Christians. But you will accuse them of heresy. I know that. You have to. There is no alternative for you. Some of you will deny that there were Christian churches outside of Catholicism. In other words, if any church refused to submit to the papacy, they were heretics. If any church or individual refused to recognise the authority of the popes and bishops of the Catholic church, they were "heretics" and thus ripe picking for persecution and death. Land stolen. Houses plundered. Families destroyed. Protectors persecuted. Children to the third and fourth generation proscribed. Yeah, it was a great way to love your enemy and share the gospel.

 

[amadeus]

@brakelite
So many made up minds, in opposition to us? No, the opposition is really to God and what He considers as the most important things. Moses worked so hard to soften their hard heads and stiff necks even offering himself to save them, but that is not the way that it works. People so often want to have every answer to every question laid out clearly in black and white, but only God has such clear answers always. People must stay in touch with Him continually in order to even approach that. The contact via the ministry is not an evil thing as God has given us ministers [Eph 4:11] but we must also be in touch with Him to avoid being deceived. The dead men in the pew stink up a lot of places but if one of us comes and offers to join in the clean up we are required by men to back off.

 

[Marymog]

Willful ignorance on your part doesn't constitute inability to provide evidence on my part. That the Papacy for century after century outlawed the free dissemination of the Bible in a common language of the people is simply a matter of history.

Hmmmmm......I guess if you had this evidence of the Papacy outlawing the dissemination of the bible in the common language of the people you would provide it. However, since you FAILED in your ability to provide such evidence the only thing we have to go on is your theory and/or twisting of history.

Thank you for your time....Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who do you think donated the Popes Throne and The Roman Catholic Cathedrals, on the very ground that exist today in Italy, "Roman Emperor Constatine"!

Constatine Is The Father Of The Very Ground The Pope Calls His Cathedral, Constatines Old House, The Laternn Palace, And The Cathedral The Roman Catholic Church Calls It's Headquarters, Saint Peters Basilica.

Constatine Is The Father Of Roman Catholicism, And It's Founding Headquarters In Buildings.

Wikipedia: Old Saint Peters Basilica
Construction began by orders of the Roman Emperor Constantine I between 318 and 322,[2] and took about 30 years to complete. Over the next twelve centuries, the church gradually gained importance, eventually becoming a major place of pilgrimage in Rome.

Wikipedia: Archbasilica of St. John Lateran
Saints John the Baptist and [John] the Evangelist".[5] The inscription indicates, along with its full title (see below), that the archbasilica was originally dedicated to Christ the Savior and, centuries later, co-dedicated to St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist. As the Cathedral of the Pope qua Bishop of Rome, it ranks superior to all other churches of the Roman Catholic Church, including St. Peter's Basilica, and therefore it alone is titled "Archbasilica" among all other basilicas.

The Lateran Palace fell into the hands of the Emperor when Constantine I married his second wife Fausta, sister of Maxentius. Known by that time as the "Domus Faustae" or "House of Fausta," the Lateran Palace was eventually given to the Bishop of Rome by Constantine I.

And why do you keep posting the same nonsense instead of addressing the questions I posed along with the testimonies of the Early Church??
I think you've discovered that you're in WAAAYY over your head here . . .

You STILL haven't shown that Constantine had a SINGLE thing to do with Catholic doctrine.
So far, the ONLY thing you're adept at is copying and pasting the exact same post repeatedly . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why do you render such blind, undying love and devotion to an institution that has shed more blood than any other in the history of the world?

Care to provide some actual historical documentation for that moronic claim??
OR, do you just like to repeat stupid things?

 

[brakelite]

@brakelite
So many made up minds, in opposition to us? No, the opposition is really to God and what He considers as the most important things. Moses worked so hard to soften their hard heads and stiff necks even offering himself to save them, but that is not the way that it works. People so often want to have every answer to every question laid out clearly in black and white, but only God has such clear answers always. People must stay in touch with Him continually in order to even approach that. The contact via the ministry is not an evil thing as God has given us ministers [Eph 4:11] but we must also be in touch with Him to avoid being deceived. The dead men in the pew stink up a lot of places but if one of us comes and offers to join in the clean up we are required by men to back off.

The interesting thing is though my friend, even despite the need of bishops and teachers as per scripture, we are to test everything. Like Bereans. And at no time does apostasy ever come from the laity. The rot always grows down from the top. Apostate churches are very much like the New Zealand rata tree. It begins as a small vine, with a flower that closely resembles the flower of the magnificent Pohutukawa tree. The vine begins as a seed caught in the boughs of a host tree. The vine grows downward, roots into the earth, then rises again to entwine the entire tree, the vine growing ticker and thicker until it looks like a tree in its own right, completely engulfing the host. The landscape of some native forests in NZ can be seen with white skeletons standing above the rest of the regenerating forest after logging 100 years ago. The rata was the only trees not logged. Why? Because when you cut into them, they are hollow. The timber is great for firewood, but useless for timber. Such a perfect analogy for Catholicism. The early Christian church was pure. But Catholicism took over and smothered the life out of it.
Satan would dearly love to destroy Christ Himself, yes, but he has to satisfy with attacking Christs dearest possession. His beloved bride. But there will be a remnant who will refuse to bow their knee to Baal. The always is.

 

[amadeus]

The interesting thing is though my friend, even despite the need of bishops and teachers as per scripture, we are to test everything. Like Bereans. And at no time does apostasy ever come from the laity. The rot always grows down from the top. Apostate churches are very much like the New Zealand rata tree. It begins as a small vine, with a flower that closely resembles the flower of the magnificent Pohutukawa tree. The vine begins as a seed caught in the boughs of a host tree. The vine grows downward, roots into the earth, then rises again to entwine the entire tree, the vine growing ticker and thicker until it looks like a tree in its own right, completely engulfing the host. The landscape of some native forests in NZ can be seen with white skeletons standing above the rest of the regenerating forest after logging 100 years ago. The rata was the only trees not logged. Why? Because when you cut into them, they are hollow. The timber is great for firewood, but useless for timber. Such a perfect analogy for Catholicism. The early Christian church was pure. But Catholicism took over and smothered the life out of it.
Satan would dearly love to destroy Christ Himself, yes, but he has to satisfy with attacking Christs dearest possession. His beloved bride. But there will be a remnant who will refuse to bow their knee to Baal. The always is.

I do like your analogy of that rata tree. It is really a shame that is so much more than just a story.... It's a real thing and as we see here people are fighting retain it with no charity/love showing that I can see.

 

[Truth7t7]

And why do you keep posting the same nonsense instead of addressing the questions I posed along with the testimonies of the Early Church??
I think you've discovered that you're in WAAAYY over your head here . . .

You STILL haven't shown that Constantine had a SINGLE thing to do with Catholic doctrine.
So far, the ONLY thing you're adept at is copying and pasting the exact same post repeatedly . . .

Your in denial of the fact that 1400+ bishops didn't attend Constatines State Church Meeting.

Your in denial of the fact Constatine established the Roman Catholic Church in St. Peters Basilica.

Your in denial of the fact that the Christian Church was persecuted by Roman Catholicism and the Emperors.

See there below, Eusebius was disciplined and removed from the Christian church for Arianism, Constatine made Eusebius his counselor, The Newly formed Church State, that 1400+ bishops opposed.

See there below, your pope Sylvester was already working with Constatine on persecuting Jews, before the Church State meeting in Nicea 325AD, why ya think 1400+ bishops didn't attend the dog and pony show of Sylvester, who led the Council with Constatines authority.

Wikipedia: Eusebius Of Caesarea
During the Council of Antiochia (325) he was excommunicated for subscribing to the heresy of Arius,[2] and thus withdrawn during the First Council of Nicaea where he accepted that the Homoousion referred to the Logos. Never recognized as a Saint, he became counselor of Constantine the Great, and with the bishop of Nicomedia he continued to polemicize against Saint Athanasius of Alexandria, Church Fathers, since he was condemned in the First Council of Tyre in 335.

JerusalemPost

CELEBRATING AN ANTI-SEMITIC POPE ON SYLVESTER
The Israeli New Year's celebration on December 31st is named after an anti-Semitic Pope from the Roman period.
Israeli New Years, most commonly known as Sylvester, is named after an anti-Semitic pope. Not exactly what you’d expect in a Jewish state.

It's origins come from Pope Sylvester, whose saint's day falls on December 31st, what is now known as New Years Eve. He served as pope from 314-335 CE, and while very little is known about his actual life, it is known that he oversaw both the First Council of Nicea as well as Roman Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity.

Pope Sylvester convinced Constantine to prohibit Jews from living in Jerusalem, the year before the Council of Nicea convened, and during the council, the Pope arranged for the passing of various anti-Semitic legislation. Some say he is one of the most anti-Semitic Popes of all time.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your in denial of the fact that 1400+ bishops didn't attend Constatines State Church Meeting.

Your in denial of the fact Constatine established the Roman Catholic Church in St. Peters Basilica.

Your in denial of the fact that the Christian Church was persecuted by Roman Catholicism and the Emperors.

See there below, Eusebius was disciplined and removed from the Christian church for Arianism, Constatine made Eusebius his counselor, The Newly formed Church State, that 1400+ bishops opposed.

See there below, your pope Sylvester was already working with Constatine on persecuting Jews, before the Church State meeting in Nicea 325AD, why ya think 1400+ bishops didn't attend the dog and pony show of Sylvester, who led the Council with Constatines authority.

Wikipedia: Eusebius Of Caesarea
During the Council of Antiochia (325) he was excommunicated for subscribing to the heresy of Arius,[2] and thus withdrawn during the First Council of Nicaea where he accepted that the Homoousion referred to the Logos. Never recognized as a Saint, he became counselor of Constantine the Great, and with the bishop of Nicomedia he continued to polemicize against Saint Athanasius of Alexandria, Church Fathers, since he was condemned in the First Council of Tyre in 335.

JerusalemPost

CELEBRATING AN ANTI-SEMITIC POPE ON SYLVESTER
The Israeli New Year's celebration on December 31st is named after an anti-Semitic Pope from the Roman period.
Israeli New Years, most commonly known as Sylvester, is named after an anti-Semitic pope. Not exactly what you’d expect in a Jewish state.

It's origins come from Pope Sylvester, whose saint's day falls on December 31st, what is now known as New Years Eve. He served as pope from 314-335 CE, and while very little is known about his actual life, it is known that he oversaw both the First Council of Nicea as well as Roman Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity.

Pope Sylvester convinced Constantine to prohibit Jews from living in Jerusalem, the year before the Council of Nicea convened, and during the council, the Pope arranged for the passing of various anti-Semitic legislation. Some say he is one of the most anti-Semitic Popes of all time.

First of all, my dishonest friend - I'm not sure where you get the idea that Pope Eusebius was an Arian heretic. He is a canonized Saint in the Church. He wasn't "excommunicated" by any council. He was eventually exiled to Sicily by the Roman emperor Maxentius in 306. He died there in 310.
YOU claim that he was excommunicated in 325, which is a LIE.

Secondly - you keep stating that I am in "denial" that Constantine created the Catholic Church - but YOU haven't given one single SHRED of evidence that he did. You LOSE by default on this point . . .

Finally - your condemnation of Pope Sylvester as an "Anti-Semite" is a mater of pure fiction. Not only did he NOT convince Constantine to prohibit Jews from living in Jerusalem - there is absolutely NO record of this fairy tale.

Listen - if you don't like the Catholic Church - that's fine.
HOWEVER - if you are going to continue to LIE about the Church - be prepared to be continually humiliated on this forum as I present the actual historical facts . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Willful ignorance on your part doesn't constitute inability to provide evidence on my part. That the Papacy for century after century outlawed the free dissemination of the Bible in a common language of the people is simply a matter of history.

REALLY??
Can you show me some actual historical proof - or are you just content to spew the same moronic lies that you've been spoon fed your whole life?

The Church never forbade the reading the Scripture. the historical facts are this:

- As many as 85% of the general population was functionally ILLITERATE until the dawn on the 20th century and would have have very LITTLE use for a printed bible.

- Because Bibles were handwritten - they were chained to pulpits prior to the invention of the printing press because they were so rare and expensive and difficult to acquire.

- Contrary to the Protestant lie that the Bible was only available in Latin - the Catholic Church had MANY translation in the vernacular PRIOR to the Protestant Revolt.

Sorry - but them's the facts.
YOUR turn . . .

 

[Truth7t7]

REALLY??
Can you show me some actual historical proof - or are you just content to spew the same moronic lies that you've been spoon fed your whole life?

The Church never forbade the reading the Scripture. the historical facts are this:

- As many as 85% of the general population was functionally ILLITERATE until the dawn on the 20th century and would have have very LITTLE use for a printed bible.

- Because Bibles were handwritten - they were chained to pulpits prior to the invention of the printing press because they were so rare and expensive and difficult to acquire.

- Contrary to the Protestant lie that the Bible was only available in Latin - the Catholic Church had MANY translation in the vernacular PRIOR to the Protestant Revolt.

Sorry - but them's the facts.
YOUR turn . . .

Roman Catholic Suppression And Persecution Of God's Christian Church, A Historical Fact!

Wikipedia: Council of Toulouse (1229) was a Council of the Roman Catholic Church called by Folquet de Marselha the Bishop of Toulouse in 1229AD. The council forbade laity to read vernacular translations of the Bible.

Wikipedia: Council Of Taragonna
A second council was held at Tarragona in 1234 to regulate the procedure of the Inquisition,[2] which had begun in 1233.[3][4]and to also ratify the findings of the Toulouse Council.

Canon two of this second Council of Tarragona also restated the cannon of the Council of Toulouse held two years before. “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days, so that they may be burned…”[5][6]

HuffPost

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): “We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.”

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned...”

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

HuffPost

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): “We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.”

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned...”

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

Thank you for posting the above, out-of-context excerpts.

These were not prohibitions on the READING or even ownership of Bibles. They were directed against the perverse interpretations and spurious copies that were being produced. There were MANY bad and even heretical translations floating around during these periods.

You might also want to take not of the fact that Martin Luther himself, after editing 7 books from the OT as well as portions of Daniel and Esther - ALSO wanted to delete several Books from the NT. These Books included the Epistles of James and Jude as well as Hebrews and Revelation.

If it hadn't been for some of his contemporaries, like Philip Melanchton - YOUR Protestant Bible would be a LOT thinner than it already is . . .

 

[Truth7t7]

Thank you for posting the above, out-of-context excerpts.

These were not prohibitions on the READING or even ownership of Bibles. They were directed against the perverse interpretations and spurious copies that were being produced. There were MANY bad and even heretical translations floating around during these periods.

You might also want to take not of the fact that Martin Luther himself, after editing 7 books from the OT as well as portions of Daniel and Esther - ALSO wanted to delete several Books from the NT. These Books included the Epistles of James and Jude as well as Hebrews and Revelation.

If it hadn't been for some of his contemporaries, like Philip Melanchton - YOUR Protestant Bible would be a LOT thinner than it already is . . .

Wikipedia: William Tyndale (/ˈtɪndəl/;[1] sometimes spelled Tynsdale, Tindall, Tindill, Tyndall; c. 1494 – c. 6 October 1536) was an English scholar who became a leading figure in the Protestant Reformation in the years leading up to his execution. He is well known for his translation of the Bible into English. He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther.[2] A number of partial translations had been made from the seventh century onward, but the spread of Wycliffe's Bible in the late 14th century led to the death penalty for anyone found in unlicensed possession of Scripture in English

Wikipedia: Council of Constance is the 15th-century ecumenical council recognized by the Catholic Church, held from 1414 to 1418 in the Bishopric of Constance.
The council also condemned Jan Hus as a heretic and facilitated his execution by the civil authority.

A second goal of the council was to continue the reforms begun at the Council of Pisa (1409). These reforms were largely directed against John Wycliffe, mentioned in the opening session and condemned in the eighth on 4 May 1415, and Jan Hus, along with their followers. Jan Hus, summoned to Constance under a letter of safe conduct, was found guilty of heresy by the council and turned over to the secular court. "This holy synod of Constance, seeing that God's church has nothing more that it can do, relinquishes Jan Hus to the judgment of the secular authority and decrees that he is to be relinquished to the secular court." (Council of Constance-Session 15 – 6 July 1415). The secular court sentenced him to the stake.

Jerome of Prague, a supporter of Jan Hus, came to Constance to offer assistance. But he was similarly arrested, judged, found guilty of heresy and turned over to the same secular court, with the same outcome as Hus. Poggio Bracciolini attended the council and related the unfairness of the process against Jerome.[6]

Paweł Włodkowic and all the Polish representation to the Council of Constance publicly defended Jan Hus.

HuffPost

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

Re-posting the same fictional nonsense.
I see you haven't learned you lesson here.

History is MUCH more than a couple of out-of-context remarks.
It takes some actual research . . .

 

[twinc]

The interesting thing is though my friend, even despite the need of bishops and teachers as per scripture, we are to test everything. Like Bereans. And at no time does apostasy ever come from the laity. The rot always grows down from the top. Apostate churches are very much like the New Zealand rata tree. It begins as a small vine, with a flower that closely resembles the flower of the magnificent Pohutukawa tree. The vine begins as a seed caught in the boughs of a host tree. The vine grows downward, roots into the earth, then rises again to entwine the entire tree, the vine growing ticker and thicker until it looks like a tree in its own right, completely engulfing the host. The landscape of some native forests in NZ can be seen with white skeletons standing above the rest of the regenerating forest after logging 100 years ago. The rata was the only trees not logged. Why? Because when you cut into them, they are hollow. The timber is great for firewood, but useless for timber. Such a perfect analogy for Catholicism. The early Christian church was pure. But Catholicism took over and smothered the life out of it.
Satan would dearly love to destroy Christ Himself, yes, but he has to satisfy with attacking Christs dearest possession. His beloved bride. But there will be a remnant who will refuse to bow their knee to Baal. The always is.

there will be a remnant sure enough but it will not come from those who walk no more with Him - twinc

 

[Marymog]

Roman Catholic Suppression And Persecution Of God's Christian Church, A Historical Fact!

Wikipedia: Council of Toulouse (1229) was a Council of the Roman Catholic Church called by Folquet de Marselha the Bishop of Toulouse in 1229AD. The council forbade laity to read vernacular translations of the Bible.

Wikipedia: Council Of Taragonna
A second council was held at Tarragona in 1234 to regulate the procedure of the Inquisition,[2] which had begun in 1233.[3][4]and to also ratify the findings of the Toulouse Council.

Canon two of this second Council of Tarragona also restated the cannon of the Council of Toulouse held two years before. “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days, so that they may be burned…”[5][6]

HuffPost

Decree of the Council of Toulouse (1229 C.E.): “We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.”

Ruling of the Council of Tarragona of 1234 C.E.: “No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned...”

Proclamations at the Ecumenical Council of Constance in 1415 C.E.: Oxford professor, and theologian John Wycliffe, was the first (1380 C.E.) to translate the New Testament into English to “...helpeth Christian men to study the Gospel in that tongue in which they know best Christ’s sentence.” For this “heresy” Wycliffe was posthumously condemned by Arundel, the archbishop of Canterbury. By the Council’s decree “Wycliffe’s bones were exhumed and publicly burned and the ashes were thrown into the Swift River.”

Fate of William Tyndale in 1536 C.E.: William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible into English. According to Tyndale, the Church forbid owning or reading the Bible to control and restrict the teachings and to enhance their own power and importance.

Hi Truth,

Your statements are false based on omission. Since you leave out KEY FACTS your lie looks pretty good. How about some Truth instead of lies by omission?

The Council of Toulouse was a LOCAL council that met to deal with the Albergencian Heresy and it had no problem with the mere translations of the Bible since vernacular versions had been appearing for centuries. The Albergensians were twisting the Bible to support an immoral moral system. The bishops at Toulouse restricted the use of the Bible until the Heresy was ended and their action was a LOCAL one. When the Albigensian problem dissappeared so did the force of their order which never affected more than southern France.

If you take the time to learn what they taught you will see why The Church put an end to the Albergencian Heresy. I am thankful that The Church was protecting the word of God from being twisted by twisted men. I suspect you are also???

You can continue the Tyndale lie if you want but do you know why King Henry VIII declared that "the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people."??? Read some history books instead of anti-Catholic propaganda and you will find out.

Are you interested in Christian history or just interested in lying about The Church???

Mary