Why I Warn, and Why I Won’t Stop

[marks]

Instead of saying, "Be who we are, not who we were," I would say, "Be who we are capable of being (by truly abiding in Christ), not who we were." Other than that, which might just be semantics, we are on the same page. Btw, I appreciate that you gave me a cordial response. Have a great night.

I have no complaint with your wording, and if you agree with the rest, then I think we are in fact on the same page, what a blessing!

What does it mean to you to abide in Christ? How do we do that?

Much love!

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

What does it mean to you to abide in Christ? How do we do that?

I think that we find the answer to this question in some Old Testament imagery.

When the children of Israel first thirsted during their wilderness journeys, God instructed Moses to smite the rock, which we know was a type of Christ (1 Cor. 10:4), to satisfy their thirst. Similarly, our initial thirst for righteousness is quenched when we come to the smitten Christ and are born again of his Spirit.

When the children of Israel thirsted thereafter during their wilderness journeys, God instructed Moses to speak to the rock that it might quench the thirst of the Israelites. Of course, Moses got angry, and he smote the rock a second time, and God was sorely displeased with him. Why? Because in smiting the rock a second time, Moses broke the typology that God was seeking to convey unto the Israelites. In other words, we know from scripture that Christ will not be crucified afresh, which is what the second smiting of the rock implied. Instead, after we have come to the smitten Christ to quench our initial thirst, thereafter, we need to speak to Christ, through prayer, or to have daily communion with him. In this way, I believe that we best "abide in Christ" because he is never going to instruct us to do anything contrary to walking in true righteousness and holiness.

Of course, things like reading the Bible are important as well.

 

[Jay Ross]

Context is very important when reading the scriptures and we cannot ringfence one portion of the scriptures and provide an interpretation of that ringfenced portion of the scriptures without considering the whole of the scriptures to come to the right understanding.

If then, we are a person in whom the light has filled our life with Christ's glory, then whenever an opportunity comes a knocking to us, we should share the light within us when that opportunity comes our way.

Sadly, we often fall short of what we claim is within us because we hold onto grievances with other people or consider that our "knowledge/understanding is far superior to theirs and as such we need to correct their knowledge/understanding to conform to ours.

If there is no forgiveness in our heart for others who have/might have offended us, then the light is not within us, and our saltiness has gone astray, and the light is no longer within us, and we also stumble.

If a brother among the Saints has stumbled, then we should pray for that brother in Christ, that God will continue to draw that brother to Himself so that the stumble becomes of no consequence for him if he will repent his sin to God.

Yes, we are told that when a brother stumbles that we should approach him in love gently to help him back to God's pathway to salvation. But so often our approach is to lord it over our brother and commit the sins that God has told us not to commit.

The primary sin that we commit in this situation is that we begin to act God like towards our fallen brother, rather than to simply commit our concerns for the brother to God to deal with.

Because we commit this primary sin and we lose God's moral compass for our lives, we will experience the manifestation of other secondary sins that if we consider them, indicates to us that we have also turned from God and also need redemption.

Much wisdom is needed to be able to follow God's leading in all that we do while worshipping God with our life.

Shalom

 

[shepherdsword]

Precious friend, you must have missed post # 21 = please advise which part you assume/believe is a Severe Form of heresy?

Precious friend, you must have missed post # 21 = please advise which part you assume/believe is a Severe Form of heresy?

Eliminating the teaching of Jesus from Christianity IS severely heretical. Do you believe in Jesus? Are you a follower of Jesus? Yes and Yes? Then how can we say we believe and follow Him if we eliminate what He said as relevant to us by claiming it was only for the Jews?

 

[shepherdsword]

Are you filling water pots? Jesus told the servants to do that. You speak of me being dismissive, what I'm saying is that Jesus commanded these certain people, and it is not applicable to us. And there are many such examples of this. Jesus told Peter bring some of these fish. And Jesus told the disciples who were with Him that day to go into all the nations and so forth.

We need to be clear from context whether this is a general command to all, or to some.

John 20:21-23 KJV
21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus gave His disciples the same authority Jesus had on the earth, to forgive sins. Did He give that authority to everyone?

"What I say unto you I say unto all, watch!" This one is pretty clear.

I'm not suggesting we dismiss anything. I am suggesting that we examine everything, and be clear about the intent of each passage and verse and word.

Much love!

Once again you are presenting silly strawmen.

Are you filling water pots? Jesus told the servants to do that. You speak of me being dismissive, what I'm saying is that Jesus commanded these certain people, and it is not applicable to us. And there are many such examples of this. Jesus told Peter bring some of these fish. And Jesus told the disciples who were with Him that day to go into all the nations and so forth.

We need to be clear from context whether this is a general command to all, or to some.

John 20:21-23 KJV
21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23) Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus gave His disciples the same authority Jesus had on the earth, to forgive sins. Did He give that authority to everyone?

"What I say unto you I say unto all, watch!" This one is pretty clear.

I'm not suggesting we dismiss anything. I am suggesting that we examine everything, and be clear about the intent of each passage and verse and word.

Much love!

No one said (at least not I) that we shouldn't examine context and audience. I was speaking of hyper-dispensationalists that claim the teachings of Jesus are not for the church but only for the Jews. If you are not one of them then you don't have a dog in the fight.

Blessings

 

[marks]

Once again you are presenting silly strawmen.

No one said (at least not I) that we shouldn't examine context and audience. I was speaking of hyper-dispensationalists that claim the teachings of Jesus are not for the church but only for the Jews. If you are not one of them then you don't have a dog in the fight.

Blessings

I've been addressing the notion that we are to obey everything Jesus commanded. I've been giving examples that we have to be more nuanced than that.

And the fact is that those who promote doing all Jesus commanded others, and they don't. At least, I don't know of anyone who takes a tenth of their garden produce and gives it to the Levites. And no one is bringing sacrifices to the altar.

The fact is that there was a dispensational change that makes a difference.

I find the word "hyper-dispensational" to often be applied to people not that it defines their view, but it's used to marginalize their assertions.

Maybe this is a case of hyper-non-dispensationalism.

I think that some people read the Bible, take a lot of things the wrong way, concoct their own "Law" to follow, and demand others do also.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No one said (at least not I) that we shouldn't examine context and audience.

When someone declares that not all of Jesus’ commands apply today...

 

[shepherdsword]

I've been addressing the notion that we are to obey everything Jesus commanded. I've been giving examples that we have to be more nuanced than that.

and I think most will agree with that. Look at "all" in the context it was given. The Lord obviously wasn't telling everyone to go catch a fish and use the money in it's mouth to pay the temple tax. That's just some strawman you present to deflect from the true essence of this discussions. That being "Are the commandments of Jesus for the nation of Israel only or are they for anybody that follows him?".

And the fact is that those who promote doing all Jesus commanded others, and they don't. At least, I don't know of anyone who takes a tenth of their garden produce and gives it to the Levites. And no one is bringing sacrifices to the altar.

Once again the strawmen. I am not suggesting anyone makes attempts to fulfill commandments that were obviously limited to a particular audience. I am speaking about the ones that were obviously written to anyone who follows Him. "If any man follow me..." "Whosoever loses his life for my sake..." and so forth. This is in stark contrast to hyper-dispensationist

The fact is that there was a dispensational change that makes a difference.

I find the word "hyper-dispensational" to often be applied to people not that it defines their view, but it's used to marginalize their assertions.

Maybe this is a case of hyper-non-dispensationalism.

I think that some people read the Bible, take a lot of things the wrong way, concoct their own "Law" to follow, and demand others do also.

And others throw out the sayings of the Lord Jesus Christ and present a false gospel,

 

[marks]

That's just some strawman you present to deflect from the true essence of this discussions.

No, it's the far end of the spectrum. For someone who gives an absolute, sometimes that's the best they can handle. In this case, it doesn't seem to have made any impact.

I am not suggesting anyone makes attempts to fulfill commandments that were obviously limited to a particular audience.

Not you. The person I was responding to. You and I seem to have more the same POV on this point.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Where is this command?

I only know where Jesus said that Israel was the light of the world, and the salt of the the earth. I can't think of any place anyone is instructed to be the salt and light, can you?

Isn't this more about God having chosen Israel as a means to display Himself to the world, and the chosen nation to be the recipients of His covenant, to show the rest of the world a nation who worships and serves God?

You are the salt of the earth, He said, which is descriptive, and not prescriptive, as though He said, "you are to be the salt of the earth, so start being salty!"

Much love!

We Gentiles ARE the nations that the apostles were commanded to go to and make disciples of...however, it is still a word to the church in general.

Which Israel are you speaking of here though, brother? The "Israel of God" or "Israel after the flesh"? Unbelieving Israel after the flesh unfortunately is not salt and light and failed to show God's glory to the world, so sadly they were thrown out and trampled by men in 70AD. It is still a word and warning to the Israel of God (the church) today though.

 

[Lizbeth]

I've called attention to the type of statements being made.

While people often think that Jesus was commanding the Jews to be the light of the world, He was actually telling them that's what they were.

Rather than telling them to become something, He was telling them that's what they are.

And this doesn't become a commandment to us, "to become light".

Much love!

Jesus was speaking to His first followers, believing Israel/Jews. And His gospel and word is to the Jew first, then the Gentile. We believing Gentiles can "hear" that His commands and admonishments are for us as well. They are for the whole church....the Israel of God, which is a "commonwealth" composed of Israel and believers from all nations.

 

[marks]

We Gentiles ARE the nations that the apostles were commanded to go to and make disciples of...however, it is still a word to the church in general.

Which Israel are you speaking of here though, brother? The "Israel of God" or "Israel after the flesh"? Unbelieving Israel after the flesh unfortunately is not salt and light and failed to show God's glory to the world, so sadly they were thrown out and trampled by men in 70AD. It is still a word and warning to the Israel of God (the church) today though.

The "Israel of God" are the believing Jews, as is portrayed in Romans 9-11.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Did God cast away His people for something they did?

Do you suppose God rejected His entire chosen nation, or did He leave Himself a remnent? I think He left a remnant. These things are plainly portray in Scripture.

I believe God keeps His promises, and this one is ironclad. The sun and moon are still doing their thing. I've not been to the center of the earth, have you? Have you measured the heavens with a ruler?

I'm thinking not. No one has. And so Israel, the children of Jacob, remain a nation before God even today. It's right there in the Word, the only question is whether we will believe it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We believing Gentiles can "hear" that His commands and admonishments are for us as well.

So then you are to forgive others, lest you lose your forgiveness from God? Is that what you believe?

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

The "Israel of God" are the believing Jews, as is portrayed in Romans 9-11.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Did God cast away His people for something they did?

Do you suppose God rejected His entire chosen nation, or did He leave Himself a remnent? I think He left a remnant. These things are plainly portray in Scripture.

I believe God keeps His promises, and this one is ironclad. The sun and moon are still doing their thing. I've not been to the center of the earth, have you? Have you measured the heavens with a ruler?

I'm thinking not. No one has. And so Israel, the children of Jacob, remain a nation before God even today. It's right there in the Word, the only question is whether we will believe it.

Much love!

Amen, the remnant of believing Jews are counted for Israel...the Israel of God, which will live on forever......of which we believing Gentiles have been grafted in and together form a new creation. "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel" And "Now we know no man after the flesh any longer." "The children of the promise are counted for the seed."

 

[Lizbeth]

So then you are to forgive others, lest you lose your forgiveness from God? Is that what you believe?

Much love!

Yes, principle of reaping what we sow. Jesus said to pray that God would forgive our debts AS we forgive others. And this agrees with the Matthew 18 parable about the man whose debt was forgiven but then he afterward refused to forgive someone else their debt, and so was punished..

 

[marks]

"For they are not all Israel who are of Israel" And "Now we know no man after the flesh any longer." "The children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Yes, the Israel of God is "believing Israel", who are the children of Jacob.

We, on the other hand, are grafted into Abraham.

And thoughout the section in Romans 9-11 that discusses this in detail, Paul maintains the distinction between Ethnic Israel and the believing Gentiles.

He said that God has saved a remnent of Israel along with the Gentiles, and the day will come when all Israel will be saved, but you MUST keep this in context, as Paul maintains that distinction.

Again, we are not grafted into Israel, we are grafted into Abraham. Israel is the "natural branches", gentiles are the wild branches, and again, that distinction is maintained.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes, the Israel of God is "believing Israel", who are the children of Jacob.

We, on the other hand, are grafted into Abraham.

And thoughout the section in Romans 9-11 that discusses this in detail, Paul maintains the distinction between Ethnic Israel and the believing Gentiles.

He said that God has saved a remnent of Israel along with the Gentiles, and the day will come when all Israel will be saved, but you MUST keep this in context, as Paul maintains that distinction.

Again, we are not grafted into Israel, we are grafted into Abraham. Israel is the "natural branches", gentiles are the wild branches, and again, that distinction is maintained.

Much love!

Brother, we are grafted into the "commonwealth of Israel"....which is the Israel of God. "All Israel will be saved" is referring to the Israel of God.....all who are foreknown by God of both the nation of Israel and the Gentile nations. Only a remnant will be saved out of both.