Why is the Bible so confusing?

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tomwebster

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Junkie,This will really get you excited. The Day of the Lord begins in the evening. (And the evening and the morning were the first day, etc)
 

Jordan

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Junkie,This will really get you excited. The Day of the Lord begins in the evening. (And the evening and the morning were the first day, etc)
You know Tom, it does make sense, I never thought about it that way. So thanks.
smile.gif
 

tomwebster

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You know Tom, it does make sense, I never thought about it that way. So thanks.
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So we know about the Day of the Lord, what will the "evening of the Lord" be like? Do you know? Have you studied it? Will we still be in the Dispensation of Grace? or will we have passed into the Dispensation of Judgment?
 

Jordan

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You know Tom, it does make sense, I never thought about it that way. So thanks.
smile.gif

So we know about the Day of the Lord, what will the "evening of the Lord" be like? Do you know? Have you studied it? Will we still be in the Dispensation of Grace? or will we have passed into the Dispensation of Judgment?Have I studied? Sort of yes and no. Dispensation of grace, that is a no. Despenation of Judgement? Got to study on that...
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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Agreed Tom. JJ, the Lord's Day comes when we are NOT humans. So it's obviously hasn't happened yet.
This is going to sound stupid but if we are not human what are we? Ghosts? Ironic cause most Christians do not believe in them.....I know it has not happened at least not in the last 2000 years its been predicted..........:eek:
 

Jordan

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Agreed Tom.JJ, the Lord's Day comes when we are NOT humans. So it's obviously hasn't happened yet.
This is going to sound stupid but if we are not human what are we? Ghosts? Ironic cause most Christians do not believe in them.....I know it has not happened at least not in the last 2000 years its been predicted..........:eek:We are not going to be ghost, that's for sure. We are going to be in our spiritual body where we once are in. (I Corinthians 15:44) This will happen at the Day of the Lord (I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16-17)We are just not going to be stuck in our flesh body (human body) forever... and it is never meant to be lasting forever.
 

Sasha

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For those who may or may not have a Bible, and for those who may or may not know how to read. God said in Jer 31:33 'I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it.' Then in Romans 2:14-15 'For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,' I thought the millennium were those who were not Christians at the time of the Rapture, (those left behind) yet, they did not take the mark of the beast either. Then, they somehow make it through the 7 years of tribulations. The next 1000 are for them to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior!? :confused:
 

Jordan

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For those who may or may not have a Bible, and for those who may or may not know how to read. God said in Jer 31:33 'I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it.' Then in Romans 2:14-15 'For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,' I thought the millennium were those who were not Christians at the time of the Rapture, (those left behind) yet, they did not take the mark of the beast either. Then, they somehow make it through the 7 years of tribulations. The next 1000 are for them to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior!? :confused:
John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.There is no such thing as a Rapture, nobody in this world are going to be left behind. Everybody is staying on Earth.
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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There is no such thing as a Rapture, nobody in this world are going to be left behind. Everybody is staying on Earth.
Well maybe in the Third Coming we will see what happens but as of now the First and so called Second Coming are batting a big zero.
 

Sasha

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I guess Rapture is not the correct wording I should have used, I believe it was phrased 'caught up' I Thess. 4:16-17 '...caught up to meet the Lord in the air....' (after 3 1/2 years of the tribulation)After the complete 7 years of tribulation, satan will be bound for the next 1000. So, the world will not know temptation or sin. Until, satan is released at the end of that 1000 years. For everyone will have the chance to accept or reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior. By rejecting the mark of the beast, they have rejected satan, however, they still have not accepted Jesus either. Rev. 19:14 Isn't it very possible those armies clothed in white linen were the ones that were caught up in the air!? And are now coming back with Jesus to distroy the evil one forever. Along with those who have chosen to follow him instead of Christ!?I have not spent alot of time on this subject. Nor do I intend to, we need to be busy reaching out to those that are lost. God will help us get through the rest. However, we still don't want to be completely ignorant on the matter, now do we?
 

Jordan

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I guess Rapture is not the correct wording I should have used, I believe it was phrased 'caught up' I Thess. 4:16-17 '...caught up to meet the Lord in the air....' (after 3 1/2 years of the tribulation)After the complete 7 years of tribulation, satan will be bound for the next 1000. So, the world will not know temptation or sin. Until, satan is released at the end of that 1000 years. For everyone will have the chance to accept or reject Jesus as their Lord and Savior. By rejecting the mark of the beast, they have rejected satan, however, they still have not accepted Jesus either. Rev. 19:14 Isn't it very possible those armies clothed in white linen were the ones that were caught up in the air!? And are now coming back with Jesus to distroy the evil one forever. Along with those who have chosen to follow him instead of Christ!?I have not spent alot of time on this subject. Nor do I intend to, we need to be busy reaching out to those that are lost. God will help us get through the rest. However, we still don't want to be completely ignorant on the matter, now do we?
Actually you really should spend quite some time on this sunject dear Sasha. We aren't literally going to be taken up to the clouds, but in fact every single eye is going to stay here. Every single Christian, and non Christians. Nobody is leaving Earth at all.Daniel 7:13 - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.Matthew 24:29-30 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Mark 13:24-26 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.Hebrew 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,One question, how can you tell to see if "Christians" are lost or not? I've heard people say they are, until I see the fruit of Christ, I can't believe in them...God bless.
 

Sasha

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You asked how can we know if 'Christians' are lost or not!? How can you be a lost Christian? We will know if they are a Christian or not by their fruit. I Thess. 4:16-17 the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up to gether with them IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. Make sure your not getting the calling (caught up) of the saints confused with the return of Christ. The calling of the saints: Christ does not come down to earth, He calls us up to Him. When Christ RETURNS, in the clouds with great glory. This is when He comes back with the army and plants His feet on the Mt. and destroys the enemy once and for all. The scriptures you mentioned in Daniel 7, Matthew 24, and Mark 13 are referring to this moment. It can be a very confusing subject, this is where correctly dividing the word of God, comes into play. Like I said, I haven't done alot of studing in this subject, so, I'm not sure if I could go any deeper then this. Sorry.
 

Hawkins

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I know this sounds like a silly question. But I actually consider it tremendously important.Almost every attempt to render Christian theology consistent requires extensive cross-referencing of the bible. For instance, in one case I saw someone attempt to justify gap creationism by filling a hole in the first two verses of Genesis with a quote from 2 Peter. This sort of thing happens all the time - one verse will make no sense unless supplemented with another verse from a completely different book - and, although I don't think these attempts at reconciliation are able to hold their own weight very often (though that is the stuff of many other topics), I consider the obtuseness of the justification itself to be a problem.If the bible is God's infallible word, why did he not make it more organized or readable? Why should one need to jump from book to book, spending hours and hours analyzing it, simply to be able to understand it? Many people do not have access to bibles in the first place, and many others do not have the time or skill to do this sort of analysis. God is clearly capable of making a book that is comprehensible to everyone - one that perfectly communicates his will. So why didn't he? Why did he even allow there to be any debate over Christian theology - much less produce the disjointed mess of theology that is the bible?Obviously God would not intend for someone's faith to be contingent upon their aptitude at critical literary analysis, but that is what it has come to. Why is this? Why couldn't the bible tell us exactly what we need to know, in words that even a child could understand?
I speculate that there are tons of reasons, here are some,It provides a rather fair environment where one comes in then out with one of the two answers, 1)yes, 2)noI remember when I was an unbeliever, I felt that it's so boring to read through the Bible cover by cover, so I rejected it right away perhaps after reading 1 or 2 pages of the NT. As for OT, I didn't know what it's talking about. What seemed to be attractive to me was genesis 1, perhaps at least I thought that I understand what it says at least.So it is intelligence-independent, those you think that they are stupid might understand much more than you do. It's totally about another kind of wisdom (not intelligence). It's godly and reasonable. God, as with much higher intelligence wants nothing intelligent from men, He wants your faith. And He got it. People come in and out with faith and no faith, disregarding to and independent of their intelligence.The knowledge is layered, the more spiritual people will read more and gain more from it, ranging in a pattern from non-believers, novice believers, Christians, preachers and so on. They come in and out with knowledge in different level, even in the same level but in different spiritual grading. So that a knowledgable person (not necessarily a believer) can thus debate with a spiritual person of the same knowledge level. It's interesting. It's thus not surprised that the novice will yell 'I am puzzled'.It's lastingly debatable. A book defined by human as 'very clearly written' doesn't give much room or value for debate, it can hardly be a fair environment for choosing, it can only be an environment for the intelligent (not necessary the spiritual) to be 'right' most of the time.A standard is required, thus the existing value of the Church and the Apostles' Creed. And everything else leads to falsehood, for those unsaved to fall for. Fair enough.A testimony is required, thus God will send prophets to reveal the Truth, to keep His Scriputre alive along time, such that the Scripture (especially the New Covenant) will not grow old. Things are revealed, prophecies are fulfilled as testimonies of God's Word. No one by far can claim that he understands the Scripture in full. The good point is, to the wicked it might be confusing, but to Christians it is where the truth is. All in all, it can't be a product of men. Amen.
 

Hawkins

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No, people are not given another chance. If you have heard and rejected the message you will not be there. Again, God is fair!
Agree, and plus that,Matthew 10:22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.Matthew 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 

WhiteKnuckle

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QUOTE (Lunar @ Aug 14 2008, 03:33 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=56770
No one has really answered the heart of the question.The source of truth, for Christians, is the bible. But that isn't enough for many people.Many people don't have access to bibles.Many people aren't literate.Many people have so many problems just trying to make ends meet that they have no time to read the bible.Many people do not have the intelligence, resourcefulness or analytic skill to comprehend all the cross-referenced prophecies and meanings of the bible.Do these people not deserve the truth, and the whole truth, that Christians purport to have access to? That someone would have a question about Christianity, and be told that they'll only understand it if they spend the time to figure out all its literary nuances, smacks of elitism and apathy. That the bible is presented the way it is - as a literary work, and a convoluted literary work at that - is a barrier between people and God. Why would God reveal the truth in such a way?
Many people don't have access to bibles. True. This is why God said, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17I must also point out that the Celts were illiterate, they had no written language, yet so many came to believe. Many people do not have the intelligence...... True. This is why God said Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5Your own understanding is not required, only to trust the Lord.A barrier between people and God. True. This is why God said For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23 Man has sinned, thus is separated from God. This is why God said Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Mathew 13:13Elitism and Apathy no. But that's a different discussion and deviates from the OP.Also down to brass tacks. We cross refrence OT and NT because much of the OT is prophesy for the NT, and it's helpfull sometimes to understand the meanings behind what's going on in the NT from what happened in the OT. We and even the Apostles take refrence from the OT as reminders of Gods mercy, Judgements, punishments and Love.As far as Christians having disagreements. A lot of times they are discussions, and being seen by outsiders seem like something else. We learn and grow from eachother, we teach eachother. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 1 Corinthians 14:26 also, Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15Also a disagreement might be, For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 1 Corinthians 11:19By and large, we don't all see eye to eye on every interpritation, that's why we get together to discuss them. Sometimes what one man sees is not inspired by God, but a mere deduction made by men, and some especially true of younger brothers, are caught as "whirlwinds" by every form of new doctrine, so they're confused. Another reason you may be having trouble is the King James Version of the bible. That old language is absolutely insufferable to read through in my opinion. I seriously get confused just by linquistics alone, even if it's a subject I'm well versed in.Modified-added book and chapter to scripture quote
 

Jilli

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Hawkins, good post thanks.Sometimes our intelligence can get in the way of faith, just like being extremely wealthy can also.A highly intelligent person finds it harder to activate their faith.We can trip ourselves up and follow down side roads and get all twisted up trying to decipher and find more meaning in some areas of the bible that is not important and a waste of time - taking usaway from more necessary things. (and of course satan loves to see christians squabbling and dis-agreeing with each other!)Why is the Bible so confusing? I never found it confusing till I came on here!!
 

watchman

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The bible is not confusing it is very easy to understand. The problem comes when man starts to force their own preconcieved beliefs into scripture were it does not fit. That is what confuses the issue.
 

mjrhealth

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(Joh 14:5) Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.The truth is in Jesus, eternal life comes when He speaks and you listen, not from dead words in a book. He also said(Joh 5:39) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.(Joh 5:40) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.Jesus hasnt changed He would say those same words today if you asked Him.He said so Himself, you too have the scriptures, you cant get eternal life from reading the scriptures, you need to spend time with Him and in the coming days, a lot more time with Him, and let Jesus teach you then you will know the truth.In His love
 

Jethro Tull

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Simple, because the Bible was written many years after the prophet, Christ, gave his message. The message was distorted and embellished over the years, and covered with myths by the contributors to the Bible who had political agendas to control the masses. The truth is in the Bible, but it is covered up by myths, which causes Christianity to misinterpret Scripture and Jesus. Finding truth in the Bible is like mining gold; you have to mine through a ton of ore and rock to find the precious metal (the truth).