Lunar you make whatever excuses you want but thats all they are is misguided excuses. God himself says the End will not come till the gospel has been preached around the World. We are in the End times whether we are talking 1 year or 50 years so evidently God pretty much knows that you would be hard pressed to find a large number of people that do not know who Jesus Christ is and why he died. And your idea about luxury's while true in some areas doesnt prove or mean anything its smoke and mirrors anyone on this earth that makes it a priority can learn about Christ somewhere. The poorest people on earth are often the Most religious peoples.You are just plain wrong about the what Christians believe, yes we say The Word is the infallible word of God but we preach/teach that all that is required is belief and repenting and one is saved. So again you do not understand even the most basic things of christianity. And try to act like you are an expert.You misrepresent and shortchange us our religion and eveything we say.If a person is one breath from death and excepts Christ as his savior he is saved, whether he ever laid sight on a Bible or not. Reading the Word gives one knowledge of God and he gives one wisdom to understand it in return. But we have never claimed reading the Word saves anyone. Only a belief in Christ does that.
Why is the Bible so confusing?
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tomwebster
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(Lunar;57202)
....How can you possibly think they've been given a fair chance when the best that many of them have is word of mouth, and some of them not even that much? The vast majority of these people will never be able to read the bible. In many countries bibles are outlawed. They will never be able to subject the bible to the scrutiny it deserves or understand it in the supposedly infallible way it's been presented. All they will have is the fallible word of mouth of a man.Word of mouth is not good enough. By the Christian's own attestation, the only infallible word of God is in the bible. Because of this, the only person who has learned the real truth of Christianity is one who has read the bible. Who could blame someone in Africa or India for rejecting the secondhand, corrupted version of God's word that they hear?....
That is why there is a 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. GOD IS FAIR
....How can you possibly think they've been given a fair chance when the best that many of them have is word of mouth, and some of them not even that much? The vast majority of these people will never be able to read the bible. In many countries bibles are outlawed. They will never be able to subject the bible to the scrutiny it deserves or understand it in the supposedly infallible way it's been presented. All they will have is the fallible word of mouth of a man.Word of mouth is not good enough. By the Christian's own attestation, the only infallible word of God is in the bible. Because of this, the only person who has learned the real truth of Christianity is one who has read the bible. Who could blame someone in Africa or India for rejecting the secondhand, corrupted version of God's word that they hear?....
That is why there is a 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. GOD IS FAIR
(kriss;57216)
Lunar you make whatever excuses you want but thats all they are is misguided excuses.
kriss, I would appreciate it if your tone was more friendly. Did I do something to deeply offend you?(kriss)
And your idea about luxury's while true in some areas doesnt prove or mean anything its smoke and mirrors anyone on this earth that makes it a priority can learn about Christ somewhere.
No, I simply don't agree. There are areas where owning a bible is illegal and apostasy from Islam is a crime. How do you expect someone who has been raised as a Muslim to have the thought even enter their head to risk their very lives to learn about Christianity, much less find a way to do so?The same goes for other areas of the world. You simply cannot say that someone with no access to a bible, no public libraries, no internet, no TV, heck, not even enough food for his family or a home to call his own or the assuredness of his own safety, has been given a fair chance to learn about Christianity. When your survival is at stake, how close do you think re-assessing your religious beliefs will be to the top of your agenda?(kriss)
but we preach/teach that all that is required is belief and repenting and one is saved. So again you do not understand even the most basic things of christianity. And try to act like you are an expert.
kriss, sometimes I think you deliberately misunderstand me. Well, deliberate or not, that was not was I saying. I was not saying that knowledge of the bible was required for salvation. However, I was saying that for most people who have grown up in a particular religious tradition, they are unlikely to even consider switching out of it unless they were able to actually assess it on their own terms. Someone in a poor, war-torn nation whose family is starving and who needs to move from place to place just to keep safe from militant factions is not going to abandon his religious beliefs at the drop of a hat when someone mentions Christianity.Also, if I really didn't understand the most basic things of Christianity, wouldn't it prove your whole argument false? You claim that everyone on earth, even those in areas without bibles, libraries, TV, or the internet, understand enough about Christianity...but apparently I don't? Come now.Lastly, I don't know why you keep talking about how I'm "trying to act like the expert." What makes you say this? The fact that I contradicted something you said?(kriss)
You misrepresent and shortchange us our religion and eveything we say.
The misrepresentation was all your own. I suggested nothing of the sort.(tomwebster;57219)
That is why there is a 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. GOD IS FAIR
So whether one achieves salvation in their own lifetime or not is completely irrelevant, since it will all just be reset and we'll be given another chance during the millennial reign? Why even bother trying to use missionary work to convert people, then, if they'll just get it straight from the mouth of God during the millennial reign?
Lunar you make whatever excuses you want but thats all they are is misguided excuses.
kriss, I would appreciate it if your tone was more friendly. Did I do something to deeply offend you?(kriss)
And your idea about luxury's while true in some areas doesnt prove or mean anything its smoke and mirrors anyone on this earth that makes it a priority can learn about Christ somewhere.
No, I simply don't agree. There are areas where owning a bible is illegal and apostasy from Islam is a crime. How do you expect someone who has been raised as a Muslim to have the thought even enter their head to risk their very lives to learn about Christianity, much less find a way to do so?The same goes for other areas of the world. You simply cannot say that someone with no access to a bible, no public libraries, no internet, no TV, heck, not even enough food for his family or a home to call his own or the assuredness of his own safety, has been given a fair chance to learn about Christianity. When your survival is at stake, how close do you think re-assessing your religious beliefs will be to the top of your agenda?(kriss)
but we preach/teach that all that is required is belief and repenting and one is saved. So again you do not understand even the most basic things of christianity. And try to act like you are an expert.
kriss, sometimes I think you deliberately misunderstand me. Well, deliberate or not, that was not was I saying. I was not saying that knowledge of the bible was required for salvation. However, I was saying that for most people who have grown up in a particular religious tradition, they are unlikely to even consider switching out of it unless they were able to actually assess it on their own terms. Someone in a poor, war-torn nation whose family is starving and who needs to move from place to place just to keep safe from militant factions is not going to abandon his religious beliefs at the drop of a hat when someone mentions Christianity.Also, if I really didn't understand the most basic things of Christianity, wouldn't it prove your whole argument false? You claim that everyone on earth, even those in areas without bibles, libraries, TV, or the internet, understand enough about Christianity...but apparently I don't? Come now.Lastly, I don't know why you keep talking about how I'm "trying to act like the expert." What makes you say this? The fact that I contradicted something you said?(kriss)
You misrepresent and shortchange us our religion and eveything we say.
The misrepresentation was all your own. I suggested nothing of the sort.(tomwebster;57219)
That is why there is a 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. GOD IS FAIR
So whether one achieves salvation in their own lifetime or not is completely irrelevant, since it will all just be reset and we'll be given another chance during the millennial reign? Why even bother trying to use missionary work to convert people, then, if they'll just get it straight from the mouth of God during the millennial reign?
tomwebster
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(Lunar;57220)
....So whether one achieves salvation in their own lifetime or not is completely irrelevant, since it will all just be reset and we'll be given another chance during the millennial reign? Why even bother trying to use missionary work to convert people, then, if they'll just get it straight from the mouth of God during the millennial reign?
No, people are not given another chance. If you have heard and rejected the message you will not be there. Again, God is fair!
....So whether one achieves salvation in their own lifetime or not is completely irrelevant, since it will all just be reset and we'll be given another chance during the millennial reign? Why even bother trying to use missionary work to convert people, then, if they'll just get it straight from the mouth of God during the millennial reign?
No, people are not given another chance. If you have heard and rejected the message you will not be there. Again, God is fair!
(tomwebster;57219)
That is why there is a 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. GOD IS FAIR
If that is so then explain why there as been a 2000 year vacation so to speak and still no reign.....no man knows the time or day but this conjecture and speculation that runs rampant just makes the non believer that much more of a non believer in my opinion that is.Your God is fair statement is questionable to say the least but thats an entirely different thread.
That is why there is a 1000 year millennial reign of Christ. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. GOD IS FAIR
If that is so then explain why there as been a 2000 year vacation so to speak and still no reign.....no man knows the time or day but this conjecture and speculation that runs rampant just makes the non believer that much more of a non believer in my opinion that is.Your God is fair statement is questionable to say the least but thats an entirely different thread.
tomwebster
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(Jerusalem Junkie;57228)
If that is so then explain why there as been a 2000 year vacation so to speak and still no reign.....no man knows the time or day but this conjecture and speculation that runs rampant just makes the non believer that much more of a non believer in my opinion that is.Your God is fair statement is questionable to say the least but thats an entirely different thread.
The 2000 years is the Dispensation of Grace, it was the Mystery spoken of often in Scripture. And it is followed with Judgment, which will start soon. I do not expect you to understand this, some will, many will not. So be it!
If that is so then explain why there as been a 2000 year vacation so to speak and still no reign.....no man knows the time or day but this conjecture and speculation that runs rampant just makes the non believer that much more of a non believer in my opinion that is.Your God is fair statement is questionable to say the least but thats an entirely different thread.
The 2000 years is the Dispensation of Grace, it was the Mystery spoken of often in Scripture. And it is followed with Judgment, which will start soon. I do not expect you to understand this, some will, many will not. So be it!
Thanks. Though I have to admit it has not happened so what makes anyone think it will? And sarcasm will get you no where by the way........and just for the record as Christians we are no where near perfect and never will be.................forced beliefs always fail in the end. I will let this go here I appreciate your response.
tomwebster
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(Jerusalem Junkie;57231)
Thanks. Though I have to admit it has not happened so what makes anyone think it will? And sarcasm will get you no where by the way........and just for the record as Christians we are no where near perfect and never will be.................forced beliefs always fail in the end. I will let this go here I appreciate your response.
Sarcasm??? No sarcasm used. And yes, Christians are not perfect just forgiven! And finally, I'm not forcing you to believ anything.
Thanks. Though I have to admit it has not happened so what makes anyone think it will? And sarcasm will get you no where by the way........and just for the record as Christians we are no where near perfect and never will be.................forced beliefs always fail in the end. I will let this go here I appreciate your response.
Sarcasm??? No sarcasm used. And yes, Christians are not perfect just forgiven! And finally, I'm not forcing you to believ anything.
I know hes 2000 years late and we are here and he ain't.........of course I am not questioning his timing just peoples incessant ranting about his return that they themselves have no idea about. Look at the New Testament, reading through it it almost sounds as if the Apostles expected to be here when all this occurs. I guess God had other ideas huh....well its a known fact at some time or date life has we know it will end but I do not think its going to be all wine and roses when it does...........
(Jerusalem Junkie;57235)
I know hes 2000 years late and we are here and he ain't.........of course I am not questioning his timing just peoples incessant ranting about his return that they themselves have no idea about. Look at the New Testament, reading through it it almost sounds as if the Apostles expected to be here when all this occurs. I guess God had other ideas huh....well its a known fact at some time or date life has we know it will end but I do not think its going to be all wine and roses when it does...........
There are prophecies that needs to be fulfilled... And Christ says no man knows the day or the hour, so I don't need to get involved with men's limitless of rants...Uh actually the apostles really aren't expecting Christ to come anytime soon...Satan has to come back first.
I know hes 2000 years late and we are here and he ain't.........of course I am not questioning his timing just peoples incessant ranting about his return that they themselves have no idea about. Look at the New Testament, reading through it it almost sounds as if the Apostles expected to be here when all this occurs. I guess God had other ideas huh....well its a known fact at some time or date life has we know it will end but I do not think its going to be all wine and roses when it does...........
There are prophecies that needs to be fulfilled... And Christ says no man knows the day or the hour, so I don't need to get involved with men's limitless of rants...Uh actually the apostles really aren't expecting Christ to come anytime soon...Satan has to come back first.
Well I do not mean to be critical but it would appear that Satan is already at work I mean look at whats going on in the world. The Apostles are dead and gone so they would never expect a return. "Show me your cemetaries and I will tell you what kind of people you have" Ben Franklin.........
(Jerusalem Junkie;57238)
Well I do not mean to be critical but it would appear that Satan is already at work I mean look at whats going on in the world. The Apostles are dead and gone so they would never expect a return. "Show me your cemetaries and I will tell you what kind of people you have" Ben Franklin.........
No, he's not here yet. The spirit of the antichrist is at work, but no, Satan's not here yet.
Well I do not mean to be critical but it would appear that Satan is already at work I mean look at whats going on in the world. The Apostles are dead and gone so they would never expect a return. "Show me your cemetaries and I will tell you what kind of people you have" Ben Franklin.........
No, he's not here yet. The spirit of the antichrist is at work, but no, Satan's not here yet.
tim_from_pa
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Thanks. Though I have to admit it has not happened so what makes anyone think it will?
Come on, JJ. You can do better than that. At least give futurists a shot here. If one believes the way science teaches, then according to them one day the sun will burn out. If a scientist would stand up and say, "I'm tired of waiting. It has not happened yet so it probably never will." You think he'd have respect or laughed to scorn?The bible definitely talks about a future, except those who would interpret it to fit their notions and say there is none. But then they have no legal position to ask why Christ never returned because they already made their interpretation and would contradict themselves.There is apocryphal sources that claim 6000 years is given to man (i.e. from Adam) and the 7th is the Lord's like a Sabbath. Based on history, that 7th year should begin about year 2000. Since it did not, one can consider Jesus died 33 AD and maybe those last two "days" is from that time on. That makes it 2033AD, or possibly even a little later. Last I checked, this is 2008. Are you willing to wager on the next few decades since they did not happen yet? And look at the nation of Israel---- a generation is 40 years, 70 years or 120 years since 1948. So until all those years passed, one needs to be reserved and not too assuming.
Come on, JJ. You can do better than that. At least give futurists a shot here. If one believes the way science teaches, then according to them one day the sun will burn out. If a scientist would stand up and say, "I'm tired of waiting. It has not happened yet so it probably never will." You think he'd have respect or laughed to scorn?The bible definitely talks about a future, except those who would interpret it to fit their notions and say there is none. But then they have no legal position to ask why Christ never returned because they already made their interpretation and would contradict themselves.There is apocryphal sources that claim 6000 years is given to man (i.e. from Adam) and the 7th is the Lord's like a Sabbath. Based on history, that 7th year should begin about year 2000. Since it did not, one can consider Jesus died 33 AD and maybe those last two "days" is from that time on. That makes it 2033AD, or possibly even a little later. Last I checked, this is 2008. Are you willing to wager on the next few decades since they did not happen yet? And look at the nation of Israel---- a generation is 40 years, 70 years or 120 years since 1948. So until all those years passed, one needs to be reserved and not too assuming.
Yeah I most likely could but I have noticed here lately they are too quick too lock threads around here.
(tomwebster;57221)
No, people are not given another chance. If you have heard and rejected the message you will not be there. Again, God is fair!
So, if I am understanding correctly, only those who have not heard will get a second chance..and they get it straight from the mouth of God, and a thousand years to decide?Sounds like they get the better deal! We should be trying to keep people from learning about God if that's the case!
No, people are not given another chance. If you have heard and rejected the message you will not be there. Again, God is fair!
So, if I am understanding correctly, only those who have not heard will get a second chance..and they get it straight from the mouth of God, and a thousand years to decide?Sounds like they get the better deal! We should be trying to keep people from learning about God if that's the case!
tomwebster
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(Lunar;57258)
So, if I am understanding correctly, only those who have not heard will get a second chance..and they get it straight from the mouth of God, and a thousand years to decide?Sounds like they get the better deal! We should be trying to keep people from learning about God if that's the case!
They will also be tested at the end of the thousand years and could still be judged to be blotted out, it isn't a free ride. 1000 years under law as compared to 70-120 yrs under grace. And they will not be taught by God or have contact with Christ. They will be taught by the elect.
So, if I am understanding correctly, only those who have not heard will get a second chance..and they get it straight from the mouth of God, and a thousand years to decide?Sounds like they get the better deal! We should be trying to keep people from learning about God if that's the case!
They will also be tested at the end of the thousand years and could still be judged to be blotted out, it isn't a free ride. 1000 years under law as compared to 70-120 yrs under grace. And they will not be taught by God or have contact with Christ. They will be taught by the elect.
They will also be tested at the end of the thousand years
Well let me see, its been 2000 years unless I miss my guess here so who was tested in the second 1000 years? For that matter who was tested in the first 1000 years....? I am missing something here cause it sounds like something has been left out what I do not know.
Well let me see, its been 2000 years unless I miss my guess here so who was tested in the second 1000 years? For that matter who was tested in the first 1000 years....? I am missing something here cause it sounds like something has been left out what I do not know.
tomwebster
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(Jerusalem Junkie;57292)
...I am missing something here cause it sounds like something has been left out what I do not know.
Yes you are confused. I am talking about after the millennium, the Lord's Day.
...I am missing something here cause it sounds like something has been left out what I do not know.
Yes you are confused. I am talking about after the millennium, the Lord's Day.
(tomwebster;27294)
(Jerusalem Junkie;57292)
Well let me see, its been 2000 years unless I miss my guess here so who was tested in the second 1000 years? For that matter who was tested in the first 1000 years....? I am missing something here cause it sounds like something has been left out what I do not know.
Yes you are confused. I am talking about after the millennium, the Lord's Day.Agreed Tom. JJ, the Lord's Day comes when we are NOT humans. So it's obviously hasn't happened yet.
(Jerusalem Junkie;57292)
Well let me see, its been 2000 years unless I miss my guess here so who was tested in the second 1000 years? For that matter who was tested in the first 1000 years....? I am missing something here cause it sounds like something has been left out what I do not know.
Yes you are confused. I am talking about after the millennium, the Lord's Day.Agreed Tom. JJ, the Lord's Day comes when we are NOT humans. So it's obviously hasn't happened yet.
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