Why is the doctrine of election repugnant to many?

[Johann]

 

[Lambano]

Had you ever known the absolute hopelessness of believing the God of whom Jesus said loves His enemies, the just and the unjust, believing that God exists; believing that He so loved others, but not you, that He sent his only-begotten Son to die for their sins, but not yours; knowing that you were predestined from before the beginning of time to be tortured forever in Hell; had you ever felt that bitter despair, you would KNOW in your heart why this doctrine (or more specifically, the doctrine of predestination to reprobation) is repugnant.

Don't say it can't happen, the non-elect are too depraved to believe the Bible. People can (and do) believe anything. Talk to @Lifelong_sinner; he's standing outside the gates.

Brother Johann, I see you can read Koine Greek, and you've read many theological works. You do well. But I want you to see that systematic theology without love is an idol. Please, turn back from this road you are on.

 

[Johann]

Had you ever known the absolute hopelessness of believing the God of whom Jesus said loves His enemies, the just and the unjust, believing that God exists; believing that He so loved others, but not you, that He sent his only-begotten Son to die for their sins, but not yours; knowing that you were predestined from before the beginning of time to be tortured forever in Hell; had you ever felt that bitter despair, you would KNOW in your heart why this doctrine is repugnant.

Don't say it can't happen, the non-elect are too depraved to believe the Bible. People can (and do) believe anything. Talk to @Lifelong_sinner; he's standing outside the gates.

Brother Johann, I see you can read Koine Greek, and you've read many theological works. You do well. But I want you to see that systematic theology without love is an idol. Please, turn back from this road you are on.

Thank you for the warning Lambano, I do not find "theology" in my bible, but a whole lot of "doctrines"
Sola Sriptura...ever read Pilgrems Progress?

 

[Ziggy]

Thank you for the warning Lambano, I do not find "theology" in my bible, but a whole lot of "doctrines"
Sola Sriptura...ever read Pilgrems Progress?

There sure are a lot of obstacles in that Pilgrim's Progress story.
Paul Bunyan I believe... nope, John Bunyan, I was close.. lol
I just found a new version of the movie on YouTube!
I haven't seen it yet, I may watch it when I remember to have umm.. lunch. or dinner.
It's 8am here now.. just working on coffee atm.

Just sharing
Hugs

 

[Johann]

There sure are a lot of obstacles in that Pilgrim's Progress story.
Paul Bunyan I believe... nope, John Bunyan, I was close.. lol
I just found a new version of the movie on YouTube!
I haven't seen it yet, I may watch it when I remember to have umm.. lunch. or dinner.
It's 8am here now.. just working on coffee atm.

Just sharing
Hugs

Lol!..I love your spirit...Hope that came out OK?

 

[quietthinker]

Why is the doctrine of election repugnant to many?
because this barrow is pushed by those who consider themselves in and are confident that those who are out are of a lesser quality!

 

[Johann]

Why is the doctrine of election repugnant to many?
because this barrow is pushed by those who consider themselves in and are confident that those who are out are of a lesser quality!

You'll be surprised that most of the reformers were not so cock sure re their salvation.
I do not want to enter in a dialogue sine the doctrine of election, few, chosen, remnant is biblical
Blessings
Johann

 

[Johann]

Had you ever known the absolute hopelessness of believing the God of whom Jesus said loves His enemies, the just and the unjust, believing that God exists; believing that He so loved others, but not you, that He sent his only-begotten Son to die for their sins, but not yours; knowing that you were predestined from before the beginning of time to be tortured forever in Hell; had you ever felt that bitter despair, you would KNOW in your heart why this doctrine (or more specifically, the doctrine of predestination to reprobation) is repugnant.

Don't say it can't happen, the non-elect are too depraved to believe the Bible. People can (and do) believe anything. Talk to @Lifelong_sinner; he's standing outside the gates.

Brother Johann, I see you can read Koine Greek, and you've read many theological works. You do well. But I want you to see that systematic theology without love is an idol. Please, turn back from this road you are on.

I hear you, reformers teachings are not easily digestible...
Blessings
J.

 

[quietthinker]

You'll be surprised that most of the reformers were not so cock sure re their salvation.
I do not want to enter in a dialogue sine the doctrine of election, few, chosen, remnant is biblical
Blessings
Johann
View attachment 21627

Thankyou for confirming my point!

 

[Lambano]

Let us be clear: It is the doctrine of predestination to reprobation combined with the doctrine of eternal conscious torment that is repugnant. The Biblical doctrine of election, the doctrine that God chose a people to represent Him in this world has been twisted.

 

[Lambano]

The decree to save some logically implies God must have something to save Man from. Therefore, God logically must have also declared the Fall. Supralapsarians speculate that the decree to save some logically precedes the decree to Fall; Infralapsarians that the decree to Fall must come first. It doesn't matter. How is Man responsible for what God has decreed? Blame it on Satan? Secondary cause; who created Satan? A permissive decree based on foreknowledge? One can then argue that election from the foundation of the world is based on foreseen faith. Man is not capable of trust? Who but his Creator could imprison him so?

In any case, God decreed the Fall. Whether through direct decree or secondary causes, that makes God the Author of Sin.

This is the original repugnancy that drove the Remonstrants.

So, the doctrine is Biblical, and God inspired the Bible. Can the Author of Sin even be trusted to tell the Truth?

What is there to believe in?

 

[quietthinker]

The decree to save some logically implies God must have something to save Man from. Therefore, God logically must have also declared the Fall. Supralapsarians speculate that the decree to save some logically precedes the decree to Fall; Infralapsarians that the decree to Fall must come first. It doesn't matter. How is Man responsible for what God has decreed? Blame it on Satan? Secondary cause; who created Satan? A permissive decree based on foreknowledge? One can then argue that election from the foundation of the world is based on foreseen faith. Man is not capable of trust? Who but his Creator could imprison him so?

In any case, God decreed the Fall. Whether through direct decree or secondary causes, that makes God the Author of Sin.

This is the original repugnancy that drove the Remonstrants.

So, the doctrine is Biblical, and God inspired the Bible. Can the Author of Sin even be trusted to tell the Truth?

What is there to believe in?

Love by its very nature allows freedom of choice. Choice opens the possibility of risk. If God is love, he is vulnerable to abuse.....to being used. Just look at the stuff going on in our Planet today......is God being abused in his creatures? Can we even imagine the long-suffering required to bear with this?
"what you have done to the least, you have done it to me'......Jesus.

Is/was God misunderstood by humans?....yes. Is/was God used by humans.....yes. Is he misrepresented by humans?....yes, and grossly so. Does God love humans?...yes......how do we know?.....because he was prepared to give his life for theirs.......was that a risk? you betcha! God put his own reality on the line because he loved. Think about it......it's a risk we cannot even begin to fathom. It's a love with an immensity we dimly comprehend at this juncture, yet will be our fascination and delight to learn more of throughout eternity.

The fall was not decreed but rather the result of humans making choices against the best advice......the consequence of which they were warned.....ie, cessation of life.

It was foreknown in the councils of God. Its remedy foretold to the first pair and reiterated in various ways to different generations.
Humans are loved.....not just some humans but all humans.....even the least.

Any idea that God has selected some and rejected others arbitrarily on the basis that he is God and can do as he pleases, totally misunderstands the nature of God as demonstrated in Jesus. It paints God with attributes belonging to the devil.

 

[Johann]

Love by its very nature allows freedom of choice. Choice opens the possibility of risk. If God is love, he is vulnerable to abuse.....to being used. Just look at the stuff going on in our Planet today......is God being abused in his creatures? Can we even imagine the long-suffering required to bear with this?
"what you have done to the least, you have done it to me'......Jesus.

Is/was God misunderstood by humans?....yes. Is/was God used by humans.....yes. Is he misrepresented by humans?....yes, and grossly so. Does God love humans?...yes......how do we know?.....because he was prepared to give his life for theirs.......was that a risk? you betcha! God put his own reality on the line because he loved. Think about it......it's a risk we cannot even begin to fathom. It's a love with an immensity we dimly comprehend at this juncture, yet will be our fascination and delight to learn more of throughout eternity.

The fall was not decreed but rather the result of humans making choices against the best advice......the consequence of which they were warned.....ie, cessation of life.

It was foreknown in the councils of God. Its remedy foretold to the first pair and reiterated in various ways to different generations.
Humans are loved.....not just some humans but all humans.....even the least.

Any idea that God has selected some and rejected others arbitrarily on the basis that he is God and can do as he pleases, totally misunderstands the nature of God as demonstrated in Jesus. It paints God with attributes belonging to the devil.

Ever read the 13 epistles? And the Old Covenant?
I mean for yourself?
Blessings
J.

 

[quietthinker]

Ever read the 13 epistles? And the Old Covenant?
I mean for yourself?
Blessings
J.

You have addressed me in this way before Johann. Why the condescension?

 

[Johann]

You have addressed me in this way before Johann. Why the condescension?

I asked you a question in all honesty and not in a "condescendingly" manner...you really think I am a cut above the rest? This is not Facebook, this is a Christian forum