Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied

[mjrhealth]

Why do you Courtyard Christians never go on to quote verse 10?

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

No matter how much you try to say otherwise, obedience to God's commandments is not optional, it's mandatory.

What Has Christ got to do with the Law, this bit

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

and this bit

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

yet here you stumble again, insisting on works of the law which is not of faith and therefore denies grace. Where do you see it written. salvation is grace by faith and keeping the law ??? that would make it no longer faith and no longer a gift. A gift is only a gift if you receive it without giving payment, this bit

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you like so many refuse to give up your religions for Christ, and yet you insist that that BOL is worse than you, whats the diff. mother and daughter harlots.

 

[charity]

Hello there,

We were saved by grace: by God's unmerited favour. We heard the Word of God concerning His Son, and faith took root within us, and quickened us into life.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

Oh so now Christ is a liar is He,

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

and again

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

and on and on it goes adding too.

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

That sounds like salvation by works to me. (I peeked in for a second, so sue me ).

Thanks for peeking. It's like James says, faith without works is dead. And Hebrews says; “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14) (KJV 1900)

John also says; “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10) (KJV 1900)

So, if a person lives in sin, they probably are not saved in any true sense.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why do you Courtyard Christians never go on to quote verse 10?

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

No matter how much you try to say otherwise, obedience to God's commandments is not optional, it's mandatory.

verse 10 does not say that it is mandatory; it says that it is the certain result of a saving faith. There is a difference.

If I give $5 dollars to the poor, or even $5,000,000, that is not going to produce the transformation of the heart that we call salvation. Of course, if I am duly transformed, I sure as heck probably will give money to the poor as the Spirit leads.

But salvation is not wrought in us through any good work that we might do, it is wrought solely through faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross. For this is how we receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

Promised I wouldn't reply so Ill just say I appreciate your KJV tagline verses - the newer versions change Christ's words from a command to search: (Christ pointing at us with penetrating eyes) - "SEARCH the Scriptures..."

...to just a mere observation that a search is made if it is made at all: (Christ standing with arms folded with a prideful look) - "Ye search the Scriptures..."

The point was that they thought that the scriptures brought them eternal life; yet they would not come to Jesus of whom the scriptures testify.

And while I hold the kjv to be superior in every way, I do not see the word "ye" at the beginning of that sentence as invalid.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:4, and Romans 8:7;

Also Romans 5:5 w/ Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, and 2 John 1:6...

show that the law is written on the hearts and minds of those who are under the New Covenant, and that we will obey it...

However, this is not through legalistic observance but rather through the grace of God, as we bear the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that will condemn our behaviour...Galatians 5:22-23.

@mjrhealth

 

[Jun2u]

Verse 17 is speaking of all the inhabitants of the world, the human race, mankind -- all the people of the world

I’m glad you clarified and verified that for that is what I wanted you to admit. If that is true that Jesus came to save each and every person in the world, then it would mean He failed His mission because hell will heavily be populated. But the truth is you did NOT know about John 6:44 that in order for anyone to become saved the Father MUST draw him first, and then given to Jesus to be refined like gold to take away his sins. NOT for the whole world.

Read Matthew 1:21 and you will “see” that Jesus saved only those of His people, (not the world) but the ones the Father drawn and given to Him.

And, you are the writer of this thread and not so much as mentioned John 6:44 to complete your topic? And, you are a teacher one that is like Nicodemus?

Another ominous warning you failed to mention is Romans 3:10-11 that there is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE and there is NONE that seeks after God. Where in Rom 3 and Jo 6:44 do you find the word “faith” whereby one must be saved? In fact, faith is a work that men do.

Romans 3 is God’s assessment of the human race, and in that sense, who then is going to “believe” and “seek” Him? Impossible idea!!! But by God’s grace He has saved some not because they had saving faith but rather the result of salvation. We are all in line marching to be slaughtered for we are all sinners.

Those who believe they have the faith to get themselves saved, hear what the spirit is saying!

To God Be The Glory

 

[mjrhealth]

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14) (KJV 1900)

See but many have and they dont do all this religious stuff, they simply "believe"

 

[Dave L]

See but many have and they dont do all this religious stuff, they simply "believe"

Faith apart from works of Love is dead.

 

[mjrhealth]

Faith apart from works of Love is dead.

The works have nothing to do with your works as Christ put it,

Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So no man can boast.

 

[Dave L]

The works have nothing to do with your works as Christ put it,

Joh_14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

So no man can boast.

You don't believe in any true sense if your life does not reflect it in love.

 

[mjrhealth]

You don't believe in any true sense if your life does not reflect it in love.

How would you know you dont even believe God can speak to His children as If he doesnt care enough to be there for them. God is Love, when He came out of the Holy of Holies He did it because now just as in the garden of Eden He can walk among men, those who have the faith to believe, but so many throw out the baby with the bath water and miss out on the best things in God, as Jesus put it,

Mat_15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

and

Luk_11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

 

[Jun2u]

How is what Enoch111 saying about "the whole world" a problem? Unless you are adopting the view of Black Hebrew Israelites which is that the "world" refers to only a certain select group of individuals to which God has decided to exclusively show favor.

I have not so much as heard of the Black Hebrew Israelites to which they claim the “world” only refers to certain select group of people, but I do know Scripture declares that God elected, chosen, named, and predestined some for salvation

Read #14

To God Be The Glory

 

[Dave L]

How would you know you dont even believe God can speak to His children as If he doesnt care enough to be there for them. God is Love, when He came out of the Holy of Holies He did it because now just as in the garden of Eden He can walk among men, those who have the faith to believe, but so many throw out the baby with the bath water and miss out on the best things in God, as Jesus put it,

Mat_15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

and

Luk_11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

Love is the main trait of any true believer because God is love.

 

[mjrhealth]

Love is the main trait of any true believer because God is love.

ill agree with that yet you dont see much of it here

 

[Dave L]

ill agree with that yet you dont see much of it here

Many suffer a moment of weakness from time to time but they always seem to come around.

 

[Phoneman777]

What Has Christ got to do with the Law, this bit

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

and this bit

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

yet here you stumble again, insisting on works of the law which is not of faith and therefore denies grace. Where do you see it written. salvation is grace by faith and keeping the law ??? that would make it no longer faith and no longer a gift. A gift is only a gift if you receive it without giving payment, this bit

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

you like so many refuse to give up your religions for Christ, and yet you insist that that BOL is worse than you, whats the diff. mother and daughter harlots.

Wresting Scripture to make void one Scripture to establish another is not acceptable exegesis, it's rejectable heresy.

 

[mjrhealth]

Wresting Scripture to make void one Scripture to establish another is not acceptable exegesis, it's rejectable heresy.

Adding to salvation is not Gods idea it is men trying to show God how good they are, you are simply like so many trying to justify a religion, and like so many you refuse to leave it for Christ sake because it pleases you flesh. What has religion got to do with God,,, nothing. And you speak of Heresy yet you promote it.

 

[Earburner]

In order for a person to come to Jesus, he must be given to Him by the Father.

This would indicate that if someone does not come to Jesus, it is because he was not given to Him.

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Your thoughts?

The foreknowledge of God is not predestination.