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Featured Why take purse, scrip, and sword?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Luke 22:31-37 KJV
    [31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

    [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

    [33] And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

    [34] And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

    [35] And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

    [36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it , and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.


    [37] For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
     
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  2. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    VictoryinJesus

    The disciples were to now take these things which before they were not to take. This was because there was now going to be a change in the message and in Christ's literal physical presence among the disciples.

    Before the message was 'the kingdom of God'. (Luke 9:1-2) "Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick." See also, (Matt. 3:1-2, 4:17, 10:5-6)

    And at that time they were to not take these things. (Luke 9:3) "And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece."

    But Israel had rejected Christ the King and so had rejected the kingdom. Thus Christ was now going to the Cross. He would no longer be physically among them as He had been. And when He had been, no harm could ever come to them. He supplied all their needs. (John 17:12) Now the disciples will have to prepare. Use their God given senses. Provide for their self-defense if necessary.

    So, Christ has been rejected. The message has changed. (See Matt. 28:18-20) The direction of the message has changed. (Acts 1:8) They would now be taking the message in faith and in the power of the Holy Spirit. They are to trust God, but, as the saying goes, 'keep your powder dry'. They are taking the message now to a Christ rejecting world.

    Stranger
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  3. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the sword had anything to do with self defense. In the next verse He says this:


    [37] For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.



    Jesus knew they were coming to arrest Him. One more prophecy had to be fulfilled before His arrest. He had to be numbered/reckoned with the transgressors. Being a member of a group of people that attacks one of the servants of the high priest accomplishes that.

    I don't believe He was instructing His disciples to arm themselves. One of His disciples spoke up and said they had two swords. Jesus said that two was enough. If He meant for the disciples to be armed, they would've needed more than two swords.

    I believe the swords served one purpose. They aided in fulfilling the prophecy of Jesus being numbered with the transgressors.


    As with most of my posts, this is just my opinion.

    Thoughts?

    m
     
  4. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with you...As the Romans were in charge, he needed to be arrested for an actual crime, even then Pilate wanted to let Him go......For sure if He had wanted them to be armed He would have gotten a lot more swords and I don't think He would have said :" Enough" to Peter when He chopped the guys ear off, and then directly healed it. Also He made it clear He could call on thousands of angels if He needed, and didn't......numbered among the transgressors indeed.... :) Thanks
     
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  5. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Seems like a logical answer but then there is:

    Mark 15:27-28 KJV
    [27] And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. [28] And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.
     
  6. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for pointing that out. Of all the times I've read the New Testament, I can't believe I missed that.

    Thanks again.
     
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  7. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    I do see what you mean, but I have a little trouble imagining that it was purely because of the company He had next to Him on the cross which labelled Him as a transgressor. The way I have understood it, He was up there, because He HAD been considered to be a transgressor.
    If Jesus had not needed to ask His disciples to arm themselves, He would not have. He NEVER does a single thing without a purpose in my experience. Thanks Job :)
     
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  8. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you were able get something out of it. I gain a little knowledge myself from your post. Thank you.

    I started using that passage about 10 years ago in a debate over gun control. Some claim that because Jesus had His disciples sell their cloaks for a sword, He was in favor of christians arming themselves. I didn't make any friends in that debate.

    Anyway, thanks again.

    n
     
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  9. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    No I couldn't imagine that you would have.....Ah yes Americans and their love of guns lol. Thanks Job..
     
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  10. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.
     
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  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    imo Christ is using wordplay to install some bait in Scripture for those who refuse to see that He would never defend Himself from physical attack, and "cloak" and "sword" are likely used differently than we define them.
     
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  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    go back into the world, iow? God cannot protect them anymore? But interesting pov anyway; this passage has always made me wonder
     
  13. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    We are told to be "gentle as doves yet wise as serpents" for a reason.

    My husband has recently felt God calling him to be a father to young men addicted to drugs. When you interfere, those that want these young men to remain with them rather than shown a way out; they will threaten your life. We have children in our home, so yes, my husband keeps a pistol on standby. We are not aggressive people. We don't hate, we have empathy, but yet, I don't see it as wrong or against God for the head and leader of our home to protect his family.

    But at the same time, there is another sword that is far more powerful and is always yielded out of love and gives freedom to those it comes against.


    Ephesians 6:12-18 KJV
    [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places . [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. [14] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; [15] And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; [16] Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. [17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: [18] Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
    which is the word of God:

    Hebrews 4:12 KJV
    [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    I have been slain by the sword.

    Those that lead others into capitivity must also be killed by the sword. Hopefully by the sword of God's word(bringing in the light and truth of the Son), rather than the literal sword that only ends life, rather than give it.

    There is a time and place for both. I think.

    I am not speculating why Jesus told them; if they had no sword, to sell their garment to buy one. I still do not know. There is a good reason, Christ never wastes words. Let us not forget He also included; purse and (I am sorry when I first wrote "stave" which was an error...) "scrip" is what Jesus said.

    Proverbs 1:14 KJV
    [14] Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    almost has to be meant spiritually, as the cutting off of the ear thing would demonstrate imo.
     
  15. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Luke 14:34-35 KJV
    [34] Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? [35] It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    I agree. The cutting off of the ear settles it for me whose servants we are now called to be, and who our high priest is. It is no longer of works, but by grace. It had to be the right ear.

    I love:
    Zechariah 3:1-4 KJV
    [1] And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord , and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. [2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? [3] Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. [4] And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  16. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    They had to be armed ( you will notice that Jesus said that two small swords were enough ). Jesus had to be judged by the Romans ( Gentiles ), under their law, no Israeli was allowed to carry any weapons.... He (Jesus) had to be numbered among the transgressors in order to go to the cross and carry the sin of the world, as well as to fulfill prophesy......Any help? :)
     
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  17. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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    You are simply awesome.

    One more bit of knowledge to file away for future use.

    Thank you.

    u
     
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  18. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    That is very kind of you Job, and after the night I have had, it really picked me up.....After both BOL and Marymog had a rather nasty go at me, misquoting as usual.....I think it would be so awesome if those of us who can discuss things without becoming venomous about it, could have a place to commune, without all the hullabaloo about catholisism, protestanism and the rest, and just concentrate on The Lord and sharing, what we have had revealed to us or sharing when we gain understanding on something, and to feel safe to ask questions of believers such as yourself and a couple of others I have come to respect here. Now that would be a way for us to be there for each other , to lift one another up, when needed etc. I truly think that is what a forum such as this should be. Also then the people who prefer their denominations, could have their own forum , and they could share the way they think appropriate. Seems to me that would solve some of the issues here. This whole thing makes me super sad, because if a person who has just received Christ should come onto this forum , I can't even imagine what they would make of all this ? I don't believe that any good can come from it, to a new believer. I would be interested what you think, or am I just being a 'little' too sensitive ?
    When I first opened your post, I actually thought that you were poking fun at me ( albeit in a nicer way ), but I didn't think so after seeing that it was you.......I hope I was right ? lol
    I am still spending quite a bit of time trying to find prior posts from you and a few others, who to me sound very honest and respectful ( which matters to an old bird like me ), but I can see it will take me some time........I must say though, that apart from a few, this forum is much improved compared to whatever the old forum I was on was called. There are a lot more sincere believers on here, and they appear, as I just pointed out, at a higher stage with the Lord than I have encountered before, just marvelous ! Sorry this got so long and thank you once again...........Bless you Pia
     
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  19. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    'VictoryinJesus'.......... Hello there . As I was just re-reading your last post here I noticed you quoted Heb 4:12, the same way I was taught by my first pastor......One of the first few things he showed me from the Bible, which he said was the most important ( after Salvation and the receiving of The Holy Spirit ), was that the Bible states that we must 'study' to show ourselves approved unto God, so I really got stuck in to it for a little while, with 4 different Bibles a concordance and a Bible Dictionary, so I could try to find out, what the original meaning had been, whether from Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek, until I realized that I was speaking much less to Jesus, than I had been up to that point...........First surprise was that the word they translated as study, is not what was meant there, as we are not under the law, and the New Testament had yet to be written....When we look at the Hebrew ( I think it was ), it says to 'strive' to show yourself approved unto God, which is quite different. One of the others was to do with Heb 4:12 directly. It says :" For the word of God is quick and powerful a.s.o..........", turns out that word 'quick' has a more interesting meaning, it comes from the word ' to quicken ', which means to make alive.
    So it actually says :" For the Word of God is alive and powerful a.s.o................." That puts it into a different context, doesn't it ? Thank God for concordances because I don't think I could have learned Hebrew, because languages are far harder to learn, the older you get, and by the time I joined that first fellowship I was already 36-37 lol. When I first came to Australia I was 16 years old and had studied English at my school where I grew up for a few years, so it didn't take me long to pick up English, likewise my little brother, he was only 12 when we came here, and he didn't speak one word of English, but within 3 months or so, you couldn't even tell he hadn't been born here. My parents, well that was another matter, and it took them a very long time to be confident enough to try to speak English, and me knowing that, was why I didn't even try to study Hebrew.
    I look forward to seeing more of your posts. Peace and blessings in the Lord Pia :)
     
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  20. Job

    Job Well-Known Member

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