1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Behold, you have a lot more to add to your teachings to make them scriptural. Read the above but in whole 2 Peter 1:2-11.
Why the FLESH is against the SPIRIT.
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Behold, you have a lot more to add to your teachings to make them scriptural. Read the above but in whole 2 Peter 1:2-11.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
This is truth:
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
To teach obedience is works is heresy.
I do want to be kind, but you apparently have neither heard Paul or myself.
What you are suggesting is not even possible: How do you suppose if "old things have passed away" meaning "the old man", that there is anything for such a person to go back to when that "old man" has "passed away?"
The Hebrews 10:26-31 passage that you quoted is not referring to those who have "changed" either, but rather to those who have merely been set apart for change, but have failed to do so. "For many are called, but few chosen.”
The point of Hebrews 10:26, is that just as there is only One sacrifice for sins, the dead are likewise only raised once. And just as Jesus does not return to take sin upon Himself again, those who are "in Him" are forever "finished" with it. Those who are [actually] "in Christ" cannot waffle between the old and the new--because they are "in Him" and He does not waffle. "It is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them." You should know these things.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)
If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) Again, in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.
*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.
Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.
*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.
In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to nominal Christians and not saved people: But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer among these Hebrew Christians, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) Again, in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.
*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.
Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.
*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.
In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to nominal Christians and not saved people: But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer among these Hebrew Christians, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Here is what you are teaching.
Let me quote you, 1stCenturyLady.
You WROTE..
"I do believe that some can lose their salvation.""
And you are talking about a BORN AGAIN Believer.
So, here is the issue.
When you teach that Christ's Blood and Death are not able to keep someone saved, you are denying the Cross and rejecting the Grace of God.
You are literally teaching that the Death of Christ, this eternal sacrifice, is NOT ENOUGH.
That God's Son is NOT ENOUGH.
That God's Salvation is not based on the Cross, but its based on someone's BEHAVIOR or THINKING.
And that teaching that you are so proud of, is a Cross Rejecting deception.
Its this... Galatians 1:8
The NT teaches that God is FAITHFUL to complete salvation that HE began IN the believer.
Philippians 1:6
The NT teaches that if a person has faith issues after they are saved then that is not going to harm their SALVATION.
Why?
2 Timothy 2:13. ""If we are faithless, GOD remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.""
See that?
Take a good look, DECEIVER. !
GOD is always faithful, when we are not. GOD is faithful to COMPLETE our Salvation.
WE WILL BE CONFORMED INTO THE IMAGE OF JESUS.
God said so, and you say....>"no". "its up to the person">
And that REJECTS the NT, and the TRUTH, and that is your broken faith.
Let me show you one more that isn't in your lying commentary.
Hebrews 12:2 KJV.... says that JESUS, not you, but JESUS, who is GOD, "finishes your FAITH".
You are teaching that God's Faithfulness, isn't at all.
You are teaching that Salvation is based on the PERSON< and not based on the "Gift of Salvation".
You are teaching the Devil's Gospel of "do something to keep yourself saved", which is LEGALISM.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
They don't go back, but they, like Adam, can choose to sin for the first time. The old carnal human nature we were born with is dead, and we receive both God and human natures like Jesus was born with - dual natures. And the God in Jesus made Him powerful and full of grace which is power. And He overcame Mary's carnal nature and passed every test/temptation - one advantage to how one is taught from childhood, and in His case under the laws of God.
Before Adam sinned he did not have a divine nature but had a pure human nature that had free will to choose to stay obedient or to be seduced by lies, corrupting his human nature. We can do the same after being born again with the Spirit by quenching the Holy Spirit. Think about this before you choose to discount it - every male's first choice. LOL
If one is "set apart for change" (not in scripture) so made a choice to repent, they are then cleansed which is sanctification. This guy already repented and was already sanctified, so already "chosen." Justification and Sanctification are at the same time in our lives. Then comes the process of maturing the fruit of the Spirit which is glorification. Romans 8:29-30.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Behold, I know you want to be a teacher to the lost, which is commendable, but you want to make it as easy as possible, telling them they will be saved, and don't have to give up sinning to remain saved. That is not just the opposite of legalism, yours is heresy also! The truth is supernatural, and I don't think your mind goes there.
That is right, but it is not I doing that. You fail your students when you do not teach the whole New Covenant, especially this WARNING. And Hebrews 10 addresses it. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
It is not legalism; it is understanding these verses in the Word of God.
1 John 3:3 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 5:18 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
This is what you are doing: Jude 1:4 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Behold, by teaching against sin and mistakenly calling it works is putting yourself in a category marked for condemnation. Wake up, brother and teach the truth.
That is right, but it is not I doing that. You fail your students when you do not teach the whole New Covenant, especially this WARNING. And Hebrews 10 addresses it. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
It is not legalism; it is understanding these verses in the Word of God.
1 John 3:3 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 5:18 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
This is what you are doing: Jude 1:4 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Behold, by teaching against sin and mistakenly calling it works is putting yourself in a category marked for condemnation. Wake up, brother and teach the truth.
When one is born again, they are not born again of the flesh, but rather of the spirit of God. Meaning, as the scriptures say, that "it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them."
So, no, there is no going back of any kind. All who are saved have been born again of the spirit of God, and their life is no longer their own. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." This is the good news.
The word used actually means "set apart", not cleansed, not sanctified, and not chosen. In which case it only means they were "called", and as yet not chosen.
Ignorance is not an excuse for lack of understanding Gods word !
The FLESH has ALWAYS been at war against the spirit; notice I used lowercase for spirit. This is not the Spirit of God but the spirit of mankind.
Jesus told his disciples that went with him to the garden to pray, COULD YE NOT WATCH WITH ME ONE HOUR ? THE SPIRIT ( of man ) IS WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK !
We have an innate sense of right / wrong, good & bad born into us. The flesh is our sinful part that pays the wages of sin if unrepentant. Every one of us fails for we are NOT PERFECT. We will reach perfection when this corruptible has put on the incorruptible . When our mortal puts on the immortal at the resurrection at Christ's second coming !
To resist the SPIRIT OF GOD IS to resist the conviction he brings to our attention of sin at the door. We deny him access of our hearts to make it contrite and broken that we may see ourselves as God does; filthy, unclean, unrighteous, smothered in sin !
We will remain flesh until death and the grave eats our vessels of clay. Our mortal will put on immortality and we will rest before God when that day of rejoicing comes !
The FLESH has ALWAYS been at war against the spirit; notice I used lowercase for spirit. This is not the Spirit of God but the spirit of mankind.
Jesus told his disciples that went with him to the garden to pray, COULD YE NOT WATCH WITH ME ONE HOUR ? THE SPIRIT ( of man ) IS WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK !
We have an innate sense of right / wrong, good & bad born into us. The flesh is our sinful part that pays the wages of sin if unrepentant. Every one of us fails for we are NOT PERFECT. We will reach perfection when this corruptible has put on the incorruptible . When our mortal puts on the immortal at the resurrection at Christ's second coming !
To resist the SPIRIT OF GOD IS to resist the conviction he brings to our attention of sin at the door. We deny him access of our hearts to make it contrite and broken that we may see ourselves as God does; filthy, unclean, unrighteous, smothered in sin !
We will remain flesh until death and the grave eats our vessels of clay. Our mortal will put on immortality and we will rest before God when that day of rejoicing comes !
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What is born again is our spirit and soul. Our flesh is dead, meaning our carnal nature is dead. The new spirit and soul creates a divine nature. But we also have a human nature where the fruit of the Spirit are planted and must mature. This is where our free will is also. The only human nature free from sin is the human nature Adam was created with before sin. I did ask you to think about this, but from your picture and name, you're a man. LOL
What word?
Seeing as Jesus died for every living human being, who are the many?
There are many errors of misunderstanding in that explanation.
There is no process of maturity as you suggest, but rather, "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" we are changed. It is true that some (not all) are left in the world after they are saved, who do mature for greater service to God--this is what is meant by "those who are alive and remain" spoken of by Paul. And it is also true that there are those who are not saved who after hearing the good news of the knowledge of Christ, who mature through a process of growing faith and belief unto that day of their laying down their lives being fully given over to Christ in God...and that is the moment of salvation that "moment, in the twinkling of an eye" which one cannot return from--no more than Christ who laid down His life, can again return to carry the burden of sin upon His old body, which He too gave up, sacrificed and gave to the church.
But now I am no longer speaking of worldly things, but heavenly...and you have yet to understand even the more basic things. How then, will you understand what the scriptures say and what I have been telling you, and also understand that in giving His body to the church, Christ returns again in the flesh--that is in us, whom He has saved from sin, and therefore it is written, as I quoted already, "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us"--who cannot sin for He is God?
And then, there are also those who hear the good news and are never fully given over to Christ, who sit in pews unsaved.
Therefore, take your own advice and "think about it."
Do you not remember where this began? The word was 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 which you quoted and used to justify something that it does not say. I repeat: It does not mean "saved" or "chosen" or "cleansed"...it just means "set apart" which is in accord with the fact that "many are called, but few chosen." The passage therefore, does not apply to your claim that Paul has established a precedence that one can loose their salvation.
The "many" are those whom God has called--called to repentance.
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Scott you cannot teach, just as she cannot teach.
She believes in sinless perfection by her own twisting of the word out of context.
You have so twisted in a moment in the twinkling of an eye scripture, out of context until I'm not sure if you know what you believe.
Have you been redeemed from the sins you committed outside of knowing Christ ? Have you made confession & repented and accepted the salvation Jesus purchased.?
You both remind me of a dog in his folly chasing his tail.........round.........round........and around!
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
This is very peculiar. It looks like you cannot be saved until your body is saved at the resurrection when our body in changed in the twinkling of an eye. You don't address when and what is born again now while we live.
Certainly in a fallen world--God is "very peculiar", as He ought to be. An example would be Jesus' explanation to Nicodemus about the need to also be born again of the spirit of God, or telling His disciples that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood or they have no part with Him.
What you are saying things "look like" and why it is so hard to understand, is that the world was created on a timeline to reveal all truth "here a little, there a little", when that is not at all true of the kingdom of God who is "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Which ought to be enough to give understanding to the facts that I have been speaking of, which are indeed in contrast to our perspective of things that are otherwise limited to the timeline that we are temporarily on. The problem is the events on this timeline of our worldly history don't seem to match up with the events of God where there exists no timeline--which is our future when we fully come into Oneness with Him according to the prayer of Christ to the Father. These timeline contrasts are only eluded to in the scripture, with the use of past tense language in explanation of many actual truths regarding the kingdom...like we "were" crucified with Christ, and "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world." Which things are not figures of speech as many would believe, but rather the reality of our being apart from God and His eternal existence. Indeed, just how would One translate eternal things into timely things? The point being...that to actually know the truth of God, all of what we have come to know on a timeline, needs to be translated back to the eternal mindset...which is what Jesus was essentially doing to correct the Priests, saying "before Abraham was, I am." It is also why Paul came to say that there is literally a need for the "renewing of our mind."
Thus, my explanation above is understandably a challenge to believe--just as it would be to understand many things that Jesus said, like eating His flesh, etc.. However, in that same fashion of God's truth, what I have been saying is the truth, which I will expound upon in this way:
The fact is, according to God's eternal context of events, our flesh bodies "were" and have been "dead" since the beginning, and are made alive at that moment of being born [again] of the spirit of God, wherein there is no passage of time with God. So when Paul said "old things have passed away, all things have become new", the "twinkling of an eye" moment of salvation came to pass, and our new creation becomes eternal with God. The moment is brought about by us hearing the knock of Jesus upon the door of our heart, answering, and letting Him in. At that very moment we become One with God "in Christ" for all eternity--which is eternal life. Our life is made new "in Him", meaning (as it is written) "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us." That is, that is what is true of all who come to that moment in the world and are left here "alive and remaining" as Paul referred to it. The challenging part of this completely new thing that had never before taken place in this world--not among the old world saints, but only among those who came after salvation came through Christ. So, none of what was written of former times applies, even much of the gospels which were largely for "the house of Israel" and not for the gentiles--not for us. Which is why Paul came to say what none of the other apostles preached (for Paul specifically was sent to the gentiles), that "the words of truth" (the scriptures from God including the gospels) must be "rightly divided"--that is, divided between what was written to and of those before this form of salvation of being "alive and remaining" in the world, and after it came, which was not arrogance on Paul's part to personally refer to it as "my gospel."
But back to that "moment" and what follows: That "moment" is, or was, or will be, the resurrection of the body. Which is a "hard saying" indeed (not unlike eating Christ's flesh was and is). The word of God is full of hard sayings. But that leaves one wondering about ongoing sin--indeed, the issue of much debate. But you either believe that the past tense language, and the hard sayings are true and begin to believe on that whole new way of knowing God according to His own timeless existence--or as many did when Jesus told everyone they needed to eat His flesh and drink is blood or have no part in Him--just walk away and no longer follow Him. In Jesus' times, that meant those who walked away lived, died, and perished. Or as Peter, saying “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." we can follow in spite of what sounds crazy to many who just walk away.
In our times, to walk away from our own group of hard sayings--not mine, but Jesus' and Paul's, to which I now point regarding what in former times remained a mystery--is to walk away and imagine our own [false] gospel, rather that which was given but not fully understood. That is the fulfillment of both Jesus', Peter's, and Paul's foretelling of "strong delusion", "scoffers", and "great apostacy", which are now epidemic.
But it should also be understood, that during these times, we were and are to be "lead unto all truth" by the Holy Spirit. And this too is a mystery--although explained--not as many believe as all who believe in Christ having full access to the truth equally, giving all who confess Christ a means of arguing what they believe is true by their own understanding. But rather, just as it is written, that among the many gifts of the Spirit "He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers"...saying, "whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him"; and “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given."
And all of that to say, that all of God's timeless events have indeed come upon Jesus in His time, for which He claimed "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." Meaning that there is another explanation for what appears to be ongoing sin, and the world as a whole not seeming to presently be under the reign of Jesus, though He has also given the time of when it began, saying, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." and “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Past tense.
As for the delay in such revelations from God, this is what was foretold of these end times, as "the sounding of the seventh angel." Revelation 10 and 11
Which is only a start toward understanding all truth, as it was promised.
But back to that "moment" and what follows: That "moment" is, or was, or will be, the resurrection of the body. Which is a "hard saying" indeed (not unlike eating Christ's flesh was and is). The word of God is full of hard sayings. But that leaves one wondering about ongoing sin--indeed, the issue of much debate. But you either believe that the past tense language, and the hard sayings are true and begin to believe on that whole new way of knowing God according to His own timeless existence--or as many did when Jesus told everyone they needed to eat His flesh and drink is blood or have no part in Him--just walk away and no longer follow Him. In Jesus' times, that meant those who walked away lived, died, and perished. Or as Peter, saying “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." we can follow in spite of what sounds crazy to many who just walk away.
In our times, to walk away from our own group of hard sayings--not mine, but Jesus' and Paul's, to which I now point regarding what in former times remained a mystery--is to walk away and imagine our own [false] gospel, rather that which was given but not fully understood. That is the fulfillment of both Jesus', Peter's, and Paul's foretelling of "strong delusion", "scoffers", and "great apostacy", which are now epidemic.
But it should also be understood, that during these times, we were and are to be "lead unto all truth" by the Holy Spirit. And this too is a mystery--although explained--not as many believe as all who believe in Christ having full access to the truth equally, giving all who confess Christ a means of arguing what they believe is true by their own understanding. But rather, just as it is written, that among the many gifts of the Spirit "He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers"...saying, "whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him"; and “Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given."
And all of that to say, that all of God's timeless events have indeed come upon Jesus in His time, for which He claimed "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." Meaning that there is another explanation for what appears to be ongoing sin, and the world as a whole not seeming to presently be under the reign of Jesus, though He has also given the time of when it began, saying, "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." and “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Past tense.
As for the delay in such revelations from God, this is what was foretold of these end times, as "the sounding of the seventh angel." Revelation 10 and 11
Which is only a start toward understanding all truth, as it was promised.
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
@ScottA
I'm sorry Scott but I couldn't make hide nor hair what your point was. In fact it seemed very esoteric. And it didn't answer my question of when and what is born again now. I'm sure it was clear to you, but Greek to me.
Hebrews does speak of those who are not yet matured, who are still babes needing the milk of the word, not yet able to bear the meat of the word. And that we need to leave the foundational things and go on to perfection. So that is one place where scripture does speak of a process of growth and maturing in Christ. But those who are not yet matured are still in covenant with Christ, and therefore saved, surely...?
But I believe it's true the Lord is leading His own to a state of total surrender and consecration though, and that is kind of the goal for this life, for those who reach it in this life. Looking at the example of the Israelites who had to cross two obstacles as it were, the Red Sea and then finally the Jordan River. (Even in nature looking at the birthing process there are two narrow gateways, so to speak, to get through in order for a baby to be born.) Interesting that there were two outpourings of water from the Rock in the wilderness, and at the banks of the Jordan the Israelites were "circumcised a second time".
Heb 10:29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
In the Heb. 10 scripture above, which you quoted, I don't see how anyone under the blood of the covenant could not be saved, even if they are not yet matured. Scripture speaks somewhere of salvation in past tense, present tense as well as future tense....we WERE saved when we came to faith in Christ, we ARE saved (saved by hope, for who hopes for what he already hath?) and we WILL BE saved from wrath at the coming of the Lord.
"Esoteric" it is, as I explained.
In this same way only the prophets of old and those chosen, were given the things of revelation from God. It was not to be different even to the end, for the scriptures do not at all say that all who receive the Holy Spirit receive all truth all equally at one time, but rather that we are to be lead unto all truth over the course of these times.
Perhaps you could restate your question.
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