Why The "Many" in Matthew 24:12 Are Saints Which Will Wind Up Lost

[Blue Dragonfly's]

“And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. '' John 6

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That doesn't make sense. The "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV who are going to hell once possessed "agape", which only the saints can possess, right or wrong?

"And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold." You are misinterpreting this scipture, reading into it more than what is there.
Last time, God's love for all unbelievers will just stop at some point, therefore our love for them will as well.

 

[Phoneman777]

"And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold." You are misinterpreting this scipture, reading into it more than what is there.
Last time, God's love for all unbelievers will just stop at some point, therefore our love for them will as well.

Please point to the first place where the following statements cease to line up with Scripture, OK? I'm not talking about hair-spitting, I'm talking about substantive objections:

1. The "agape" of God is demonstrated by happily keeping His commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV).

2. The Wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

3. Since the Wicked can't keep God's commandments, they can't possess "agape" (1 John 5:3; Romans 9:7 KJV).

4. Since they alone can happily keep God's commandments, the Saints alone can partake of/demonstrate "agape".

5. The "many" in Matthew 24:12 are said to have had "agape" which means they are Saints (Matthew 24:12 KJV).

6. These "many" are contrasted with the Saint in verse 13 who is going to be saved (Matthew 24:13 KJV).

7. The fate of these "many" in verse 12 is that they will be lost because cold, dead "agape" will not allow anyone to "endure to the end" and be "saved" as will the Saint in verse 13.

If you find any objections, please explain.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Please point to the first place where the following statements cease to line up with Scripture, OK? I'm not talking about hair-spitting, I'm talking about substantive objections:

1. The "agape" of God is demonstrated by happily keeping His commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV).

2. The Wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

3. Since the Wicked can't keep God's commandments, they can't possess "agape" (1 John 5:3; Romans 9:7 KJV).

4. Since they alone can happily keep God's commandments, the Saints alone can partake of/demonstrate "agape".

5. The "many" in Matthew 24:12 are said to have had "agape" which means they are Saints (Matthew 24:12 KJV).

6. These "many" are contrasted with the Saint in verse 13 who is going to be saved (Matthew 24:13 KJV).

7. The fate of these "many" in verse 12 is that they will be lost because cold, dead "agape" will not allow anyone to "endure to the end" and be "saved" as will the Saint in verse 13.

If you find any objections, please explain.

1. God's agape permeates because of His grace. God is LOVE and so expresses it and then there will be a time when He will turn off the faucet, capisce?

There seems to be a mental block preventing us from communicating - an obstacle. We are not on the same page - it's okay. I'll pass on any further posts.

 

[Phoneman777]

1. God's agape permeates because of His grace. God is LOVE and so expresses it and then there will be a time when He will turn off the faucet, capisce?

There seems to be a mental block preventing us from communicating - an obstacle. We are not on the same page - it's okay. I'll pass on any further posts.

I see you can’t point to anything wrong with the line of reasoning that proves my conclusion - you just can’t accept the conclusion, which is fine. My job is not to convince OSAS believers of their error - just to present the evidence and pray the Holy Spirit is allowed entrance into a OSAS believer’s reason, that HE HIMSELF may do the convincing. Shalom, bro!

 

[Wrangler]

No, OSAS. Those who take the Mark were never saved.

Shocked to read this reply @Phoneman777. The I realized that Bruno is another mystic. "Somehow" his ex-post facto theology makes sense. You will not open his ears or eyes.

1. God's agape permeates because ...

@Phoneman777 made it pretty clear Scripture is not talking about God's agape but the agape of the saints. Maybe you no capisce?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Shocked to read this reply @Phoneman777. The I realized that Bruno is another mystic. "Somehow" his ex-post facto theology makes sense. You will not open his ears or eyes.



@Phoneman777 made it pretty clear Scripture is not talking about God's agape but the agape of the saints. Maybe you no capisce?

He is not clear that God is the source of agape. God is LOVE. This is where we get it. Or do you think unconditional love is purely generated by men whom God says are all like dirty rags?

 

[Wrangler]

He is not clear that God is the source of agape.

You no capisce. It's true that the source of shoes is the shoe story but the topic of conversation is how saints twisted their ankle. Why do you keep talking about the source? You no capisce!

I'll post it again so your obtuse inner processes can ponder that @Phoneman777 made it pretty clear the Scripture in question is not talking about God's agape but the agape of the saints.

5. The "many" in Matthew 24:12 are said to have had "agape" which means they are Saints (Matthew 24:12 KJV).

6. These "many" are contrasted with the Saint in verse 13 who is going to be saved (Matthew 24:13 KJV).

7. The fate of these "many" in verse 12 is that they will be lost because cold, dead "agape" will not allow anyone to "endure to the end" and be "saved" as will the Saint in verse 13.

The source of groceries is the grocery store but we are talking about the food being spoiled.
The source of electricity is the power company but we are talking about the lightbulb burning out.
The source of gas is the gas company but we are talking about the open/shut valve is frozen.
The source of money is the bank but we are talking about world wide supply chain difficulties.

You are so funny expressing your ideology of "sources" when it is not the point of the thread. Why do you do that? Did you learn to be funny from someone or does it come naturally?

 

[Phoneman777]

You no capisce. It's true that the source of shoes is the shoe story but the topic of conversation is how saints twisted their ankle. Why do you keep talking about the source? You no capisce!

I'll post it again so your obtuse inner processes can ponder that @Phoneman777 made it pretty clear the Scripture in question is not talking about God's agape but the agape of the saints.



The source of groceries is the grocery store but we are talking about the food being spoiled.
The source of electricity is the power company but we are talking about the lightbulb burning out.
The source of gas is the gas company but we are talking about the open/shut valve is frozen.
The source of money is the bank but we are talking about world wide supply chain difficulties.

You are so funny expressing your ideology of "sources" when it is not the point of the thread. Why do you do that? Did you learn to be funny from someone or does it come naturally?

If I may, of course "agape" comes only from God - my point is that the "many" of Matthew 24: 12 cannot but be saints because the wicked can't partake of "agape".

Many people read about the "many" and acknowledge they'll be lost, in contrast to the man in verse 13 who will "endure to the end" and be "saved". However, after it's proven to them that these "many" are indeed saints (as my "agape" argument proves) - their wheels of Cognitive Thinking grind to a halt and Cognitive Dissonance immediately sets in.

They believe it's true saints can't be lost, but they also now believe these "many" are saints who are going to be lost...they believe them both to be true and know that's not possible, and their cognitive confusion eventually becomes too much. The cognitive coping mechanism - where the brain rejects the "new" truth and retains the "old, comfortable truth" - kicks in and cognitive peace is once again restored, albeit they are more deeply ensnared in deception because they've dismissed the truth which is their only hope of escape. Sadly, this is the case with most people.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

topic of conversation is how saints twisted their ankle.

Okay, I understand now. I twisted my angle playing basketball several times in my youth. Guess what happened? It healed.

so your obtuse inner processes can ponder that

Are you trying to insult me? He took one verse and interpreted it as meaning actual born again Christians would lose love for eachother, AND for God and be lost.
My inner voice, the Holy Spirit guides me, gives my spirit security, strength, perseverance, as He does with all His children.

The source of groceries is the grocery store but we are talking about the food being spoiled.
The source of electricity is the power company but we are talking about the lightbulb burning out.
The source of gas is the gas company but we are talking about the open/shut valve is frozen.
The source of money is the bank but we are talking about world wide supply chain difficulties.

Those who do not understand usually resort to broad, off the cuff metaphors. If I read a scholarly commentary about that verse, I am sure it would be nothing like your above paragraph. Spare me any further dribble.

 

[Wrangler]

It's true that the source of shoes is the shoe story but the topic of conversation is how saints twisted their ankle.

Okay, I understand now.

That's encouraging but what you write after shows it is not true. You still do not capisce!

I twisted my angle playing basketball several times in my youth. Guess what happened? It healed.

Just jettison your 'source' commentary? Oy vey!

The healing of the ankle happened before or after the source of your knowledge was obtained about twisting ankles? NOTE: "Healing" is a process that occurs over time and there may even be backsliding. It's not an event, past tense, until it is finally over.

Are you trying to insult me?

No. Just taking things lightly.

Those who do not understand usually resort to broad, off the cuff metaphors.

Not sure where you get that from but the metaphors are spot on with your pivoting from the topic at hand to 'the source.'

If I read a scholarly commentary about that verse, I am sure it would be nothing like your above paragraph. Spare me any further dribble.

You think people post in online forums to add to scholarly commentary about Scriptural verses? This is why I take what you write light heartedly.

People participate in online communities to commune and communicate with others, not to pontificate scholarly silly.

 

[Wrangler]

If I may, of course "agape" comes only from God

Where did you learn that from?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That's encouraging but what you write after shows it is not true. You still do not capisce!



Just jettison your 'source' commentary? Oy vey!

The healing of the ankle happened before or after the source of your knowledge was obtained about twisting ankles? NOTE: "Healing" is a process that occurs over time and there may even be backsliding. It's not an event, past tense, until it is finally over.



No. Just taking things lightly.



Not sure where you get that from but the metaphors are spot on with your pivoting from the topic at hand to 'the source.'



You think people post in online forums to add to scholarly commentary about Scriptural verses? This is why I take what you write light heartedly.

People participate in online communities to commune and communicate with others, not to pontificate scholarly silly.

You seem all bent out of shape because I
disagreed with someone, whether I am right or wrong. It is a freaking debate forum! CAPISCE?
Maybe you are right and we are experiencing evidence of your love towards me waxing cold already?

 

[Wrangler]

You seem all bent out of shape because I
disagreed with someone, whether I am right or wrong. It is a freaking debate forum! CAPISCE?
Maybe you are right and we are experiencing evidence of your love towards me waxing cold already?

LOL. No way brother! I'll always love you, maybe even more because of your quirkiness.