Why The "Many" in Matthew 24:12 Are Saints Which Will Wind Up Lost

[Phoneman777]

"And because iniquity shall abound,
the love of many shall wax cold,
but he that shall endure to the end,
the same shall be saved."
- Matthew 24:12-13 KJV​

Here, Jesus contrasts the fate of the "many" with the fate of him who will "endure unto the end" and wind up "saved". The context of this contrast shows the "many" will be lost due to having allowed widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead - cold being a far more "spit worthy" wretched spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" Laodicean saints of Revelation 3 which Jesus will spit out His mouth.

But, how do we know these "many" are saints? Because they can't possibly be the wicked:
​

1 John 5:3 KJV plainly says "agape" is demonstrated by the saints who happily keep the commandments of God, which Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep even if they wanted to.

Therefore, these who allow widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and therefore lost - are saints. But, praise God, "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".

By this, the false idea of OSAS dies the death it deserves and all that remains is for us to give it a proper burial...and then turn and place our implicit trust in the love of God and His willingness, by the shed blood of His dear Son, to both pardon our sins and empower us to obey Him. Thank you, Jesus!

 

[Ancient]

Blessings

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

"And because iniquity shall abound,
the love of many shall wax cold,
but he that shall endure to the end,
the same shall be saved."
- Matthew 24:12-13 KJV​

Here, Jesus contrasts the fate of the "many" with the fate of him who will "endure unto the end" and wind up "saved". The context of this contrast shows the "many" will be lost due to having allowed widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead - cold being a far more "spit worthy" wretched spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" Laodicean saints of Revelation 3 which Jesus will spit out His mouth.

But, how do we know these "many" are saints? Because they can't possibly be the wicked:
​

1 John 5:3 KJV plainly says "agape" is demonstrated by the saints who happily keep the commandments of God, which Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep even if they wanted to.

Therefore, these who allow widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and therefore lost - are saints. But, praise God, "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".

By this, the false idea of OSAS dies the death it deserves and all that remains is for us to give it a proper burial...and then turn and place our implicit trust in the love of God and His willingness, by the shed blood of His dear Son, to both pardon our sins and empower us to obey Him. Thank you, Jesus!

Faith is a gift and the Elect will persevere. Those whose seed was planted in rocky or shallow soil will fold when the trials and tribulations come. Their faith was temporal, weak and many that would claim to be Christians lack true faith, they are not born again. And so they are reprobate - always have been
God knows who they are. But He is merciful and those who we presume lost, may reach out for God in the final moments, as my stubborn parents did - Wow. My mom was a rebel, went her own way, prideful arrogant and on her own throne until just days before her death when she miraculously started singing about Jesus, how his hand was on her shoulder, that he has always been there for her, that Jesus loves us. We were shocked she never said anything like that before. So we don't know when God will pull these apparent lost souls out of their darkness. "By their fruit you will know them". Were they kind, loving people, and we're they well appreciated and loved or were they evilanf wicked? Chances are if they were the former, God has actually been working on them all their lives unbeknownst to them.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Somebody’s got to do it…

 

[Phoneman777]

Faith is a gift and the Elect will persevere.

Not according to Matthew 24:12 KJV. Those elect "many" who allowed widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead leaving them unable to endure to the end and be saved will wind up lost and go to hell. Your "the saints will persevere" response has no accompanying arguments to show why my OP is wrong.

Is "agape" demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments? (1 John 5:3 KJV)
Can the wicked possess and demonstrate "agape"? (Romans 8:7 KJV)
Can these lost "many" who are said to have had "agape" turn cold and dead be anyone but elect saints?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Not according to Matthew 24:12 KJV. Those elect "many" who allowed widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead leaving them unable to endure to the end and be saved will wind up lost and go to hell. Your "the saints will persevere" response has no accompanying arguments to show why my OP is wrong.

Is "agape" demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments? (1 John 5:3 KJV)
Can the wicked possess and demonstrate "agape"? (Romans 8:7 KJV)
Can these lost "many" who are said to have had "agape" turn cold and dead be anyone but elect saints?

I don't think you understand what the concept of "Election" means. It is God's will, His sovereignty, His choice, His plan for His sheep and nothing can separate us from the love of God - not even ourselves. "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39
The unbelieving world does not have "agape" love for each other. Agape love is unconditional. It can't wax cold. And Jesus is the AUTHOR OF OUR FAITH, a story already written. He is the finisher of our faith. He doesn't give a gift that later somehow fails. These folks whose love waxes cold have conditional love, a common love, it is imperfect. When tough times come it fails.

 

[Phoneman777]

I don't think you understand what the concept of "Election" means.

Nah, that'd be you.

It is God's will, His sovereignty, His choice, His plan for His sheep and nothing can separate us from the love of God - not even ourselves. "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39

Do you understand that "separate us from the love of God" is all together different from "separate us from the presence of God" which is a favorite, false, unconscious rendering by the OSAS crowd? Of course God will never stop loving us - His love is unconditional.
Salvation? Very much conditional.

The unbelieving world does not have "agape" love for each other. Agape love is unconditional.

Good, so you acknowledge the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV are "saints".

It can't wax cold.

Matthew 24:12 plainly says "the agape of many shall wax cold" - you sure you wanna maintain that belief?

These folks whose love waxes cold have conditional love, a common love, it is imperfect. When tough times come it fails.

The word in Matthew 24:12 KJV is "AGAPE". Jesus says the "agape" of many shall wax cold, not "phileo", not "eros", not "storge" --- "agape".

"The AGAPE of many shall wax cold..." - Matthew 24:12 KJV

Got it? The "agape" of these many saints waxes cold and they go to hell, but the saint of verse 13 will endure to the end and be saved.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Matthew 24:12 plainly says "the agape of many shall wax cold" - you sure you wanna maintain that belief?

I am confounded, the Greek word is agape. I was taught that agape love is unconditional. So because of certain conditions during this it waxes cold, changes. That perplexes me. If God is the source of this love, how can it change due to conditions? Sounds contradictory.
But wait! Although, the normal brotherly love that we would give to all, must stop as some point, when God's love is shut off towards our enemies, they have the Mark of the Beast and so our love waxes cold towards them - makes sense.

 

[Phoneman777]

I am confounded, the Greek word is agape. I was taught that agape love is unconditional. So because of certain conditions during this it waxes cold, changes. That perplexes me. If God is the source of this love, how can it change due to conditions? Sounds contradictory.
But wait! Although, the normal brotherly love that we would give to all, must stop as some point, when God's love is shut off towards our enemies, they have the Mark of the Beast and so our love waxes cold towards them - makes sense.

How does any of that make sense? It plainly says the "agape" of the saints turns cold and dead, leaving them in a more wretched spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" saints Jesus will reject and spit out of His mouth?

Do you believe that "cold" is still "gold", the "agape" Jesus told the Laodiceans to buy from Him?

C'mon, friend, convince me that "cold" agape is anything other than a dead, done, useless, frozen carcass of what was once fire hot "agape" for God and our neighbors...if you're willing to be honest with yourself and not allow Cognitive Dissonance to take over, you'll admit that these "many" who allowed iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead are going to hell.

 

[Charlie24]

"And because iniquity shall abound,
the love of many shall wax cold,
but he that shall endure to the end,
the same shall be saved."
- Matthew 24:12-13 KJV​

Here, Jesus contrasts the fate of the "many" with the fate of him who will "endure unto the end" and wind up "saved". The context of this contrast shows the "many" will be lost due to having allowed widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead - cold being a far more "spit worthy" wretched spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" Laodicean saints of Revelation 3 which Jesus will spit out His mouth.

But, how do we know these "many" are saints? Because they can't possibly be the wicked:
​

1 John 5:3 KJV plainly says "agape" is demonstrated by the saints who happily keep the commandments of God, which Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep even if they wanted to.

Therefore, these who allow widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and therefore lost - are saints. But, praise God, "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".

By this, the false idea of OSAS dies the death it deserves and all that remains is for us to give it a proper burial...and then turn and place our implicit trust in the love of God and His willingness, by the shed blood of His dear Son, to both pardon our sins and empower us to obey Him. Thank you, Jesus!

The iniquity that abounds here is during the great tribulation. This is what Christ has been explaining, the events leading to this time.

There is no doubt many will abandon faith in Christ when they are faced with death at the hand of the anti-christ. Paul spoke of this abandonment during his time in Hebrews with the new Jewish converts turning from Christ and going back to temple worship.

When it comes to OSAS I like to look at the positive. If you keep your faith in Christ there is nothing that can separate you from Christ. I see OSAS as being true if that faith is maintained.

Those who abuse OSAS are the apostates, some of them are not even saved, their sin doesn't bother them. But on the other hand, there are those who believe OSAS and there is nothing that will kill their faith in Christ.

So I look at it from this view not wanting argue with my OSAS Brothers and Sisters in Christ who despise sin the same way I do.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

How does any of that make sense? It plainly says the "agape" of the saints turns cold and dead, leaving them in a more wretched spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" saints Jesus will reject and spit out of His mouth?

Do you believe that "cold" is still "gold", the "agape" Jesus told the Laodiceans to buy from Him?

C'mon, friend, convince me that "cold" agape is anything other than a dead, done, useless, frozen carcass of what was once fire hot "agape" for God and our neighbors...if you're willing to be honest with yourself and not allow Cognitive Dissonance to take over, you'll admit that these "many" who allowed iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead are going to hell.

Judgment of death to billions is cold, it has to be. The grace, the love and forgiveness that was offered is forfeited by those who receive the Mark of the Beast. What was an open door to God for whosoever is now shut. This is how a brother will hate a brother or father.

 

[marks]

I am confounded, the Greek word is agape. I was taught that agape love is unconditional. So because of certain conditions during this it waxes cold, changes. That perplexes me. If God is the source of this love, how can it change due to conditions? Sounds contradictory.
But wait! Although, the normal brotherly love that we would give to all, must stop as some point, when God's love is shut off towards our enemies, they have the Mark of the Beast and so our love waxes cold towards them - makes sense.

Agapeo existed as a word pre-NT, little used, altruistic love. The Bible writers co-opted it to refer to a Godly love, spiritual love. This use was developed over the writing of the NT, and it should not be thought of as exclusively a "Christian" love.

These also are "agapeo" love:

Matthew 5:46 KJV
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Luke 6:32 KJV
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Much love!

 

[Phoneman777]

The iniquity that abounds here is during the great tribulation. This is what Christ has been explaining, the events leading to this time.

There is no doubt many will abandon faith in Christ when they are faced with death at the hand of the anti-christ. Paul spoke of this abandonment during his time in Hebrews with the new Jewish converts turning from Christ and going back to temple worship.

When it comes to OSAS I like to look at the positive. If you keep your faith in Christ there is nothing that can separate you from Christ. I see OSAS as being true if that faith is maintained.

Those who abuse OSAS are the apostates, some of them are not even saved, their sin doesn't bother them. But on the other hand, there are those who believe OSAS and there is nothing that will kill their faith in Christ.

So I look at it from this view not wanting argue with my OSAS Brothers and Sisters in Christ who despise sin the same way I do.

When Jesus comes as a thief in the night, 2 Peter 3:10 KJV says the Earth is going to basically implode...so there won't be 7 more seconds, let alone 7 more years of tribulation.

 

[Phoneman777]

Judgment of death to billions is cold, it has to be. The grace, the love and forgiveness that was offered is forfeited by those who receive the Mark of the Beast. What was an open door to God for whosoever is now shut. This is how a brother will hate a brother or father.

yes, but that grace is only proffered to those who "endure to the end" and are "saved" which the saints of verse 12 won't be able to do because they allowed widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead, leaving them lost.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

"And because iniquity shall abound,
the love of many shall wax cold,
but he that shall endure to the end,
the same shall be saved."
- Matthew 24:12-13 KJV​

Here, Jesus contrasts the fate of the "many" with the fate of him who will "endure unto the end" and wind up "saved". The context of this contrast shows the "many" will be lost due to having allowed widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead - cold being a far more "spit worthy" wretched spiritual condition than the merely "lukewarm" Laodicean saints of Revelation 3 which Jesus will spit out His mouth.

But, how do we know these "many" are saints? Because they can't possibly be the wicked:
​

1 John 5:3 KJV plainly says "agape" is demonstrated by the saints who happily keep the commandments of God, which Romans 8:7 KJV says the wicked can't keep even if they wanted to.

Therefore, these who allow widespread iniquity to turn their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and therefore lost - are saints. But, praise God, "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".

By this, the false idea of OSAS dies the death it deserves and all that remains is for us to give it a proper burial...and then turn and place our implicit trust in the love of God and His willingness, by the shed blood of His dear Son, to both pardon our sins and empower us to obey Him. Thank you, Jesus!

I agree they were saints.
Look at the churches being spoken about in Revelations at how many have " left their first love".

These cold ones will come to the Lord saying, Lord, Lord didn't we ........." A BELIEVERS journey only counts when one stays on the path; the straight & narrow. When you take the wider path sin waits at the crossroads !

I truly believe the Holy Spirit works diligently to call them to repentance with conviction. Some though are having their conscience seared as though with an hot iron to believe a lie and be damned, thinking they don't have to ENDURE TO THE END. Christ own words are discounted many times by a blocked mind.

Can we do more than pray?
I do not believe so, for INDOCTRINATION is brain washing. Programming ppl to become as robots, obedient to that doctrine is the same thing the devil uses to form cults. Only this is more subtle, gentle persuasion in repetition, repetition, repetition; it is how we teach small children !

 

[Phoneman777]

I agree they were saints.
Look at the churches being spoken about in Revelations at how many have " left their first love".

These cold ones will come to the Lord saying, Lord, Lord didn't we ........." A BELIEVERS journey only counts when one stays on the path; the straight & narrow. When you take the wider path sin waits at the crossroads !

I truly believe the Holy Spirit works diligently to call them to repentance with conviction. Some though are having their conscience seared as though with an hot iron to believe a lie and be damned, thinking they don't have to ENDURE TO THE END. Christ own words are discounted many times by a blocked mind.

Can we do more than pray?
I do not believe so, for INDOCTRINATION is brain washing. Programming ppl to become as robots, obedient to that doctrine is the same thing the devil uses to form cults. Only this is more subtle, gentle persuasion in repetition, repetition, repetition; it is how we teach small children !

Amen, we must fall in love with Jesus and allow Him to sit upon the throne of our heart if we are to be saved

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

yes, but that grace is only proffered to those who "endure to the end" and are "saved" which the saints of verse 12 won't be able to do because they allowed widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead, leaving them lost.

When the Mark of the Beast is taken by many and your refuse, you will realize how your love has waxed cold towards them.

 

[Phoneman777]

When the Mark of the Beast is taken by many and your refuse, you will realize how your love has waxed cold towards them.

So, you agree that the saved can be lost, as evidenced by these "many" saints who once had fire-hot agape, but allowed iniquity to turn it within them cold and dead?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So, you agree that the saved can be lost, as evidenced by these "many" saints who once had fire-hot agape, but allowed iniquity to turn it within them cold and dead?

No, OSAS. Those who take the Mark were never saved.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, OSAS. Those who take the Mark were never saved.

That doesn't make sense. The "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV who are going to hell once possessed "agape", which only the saints can possess, right or wrong?