Why the mass migrations into formerly Christian nations?

[Randy Kluth]

This is just my personal opinion. I think that God called for "nations" quite literally when He promised Abraham the "nation" Israel and "many nations" to join in with Israel's inheritance of Faith.

It is all too obvious that not all nations have adopted this Faith Inheritance. In the OT era, only Israel, as a nation, had this Faith. And in the NT era, Christian nations seem to be largely confined to European Civilization.

But God has people in nations that have utterly rejected Christianity, as well, including perpetually pagan nations. Does God want Christians in those countries to remain under perpetual abuse and persecution? I don't think so.

So God has opened doors for mass migration from these non-Christian and anti-Christian countries to be part of partly-Christian nations, or nations with a Christian tradition. It may not be perfect, but it may be a respite for all they've had to endure up until now. Just a thought....

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If God is involved in this chaos and confusion at all.... it would be to help more folks hear the Gospel.

If He wanted people to to hear the true Gospel, He's send them someplace other than to the US.

The majority of what passes for the Gospel in this country is false doctrine

 

[Randy Kluth]

If God is involved in this chaos and confusion at all.... it would be to help more folks hear the Gospel.

If He wanted people to to hear the true Gospel, He's send them someplace other than to the US.

The majority of what passes for the Gospel in this country is false doctrine

No, there are a lot of true Christians in the US. Yes, there is a terrible decline in the US with respect to true Christian spirituality.

If the only Christianity was in the ancient pagan Roman Empire, I would send prospective converts there. There wouldn't be any perfect semi-Christian or post-Christian nation to otherwise send them to.

To leave them persecuted in headhunter country or in modern communist tyrannies wouldn't be a good idea, as I see it? Get out of Dodge and find a safe haven wherever it is possible. Some may just want to get out of the chaos of an evil country. But they might find the Lord if a substantial number of Christians live there.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Randy, have you considered when Joshua parsed out the land to the twelve tribes, that had become their own 'little' nations, but part of a big collective 'known as Israel.' Regardless of the split?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hello Randy, have you considered when Joshua parsed out the land to the twelve tribes, that had become their own 'little' nations, but part of a big collective 'known as Israel.' Regardless of the split?

Please draw the conclusion from this you wish to make, so I don't have to guess? Thank you.

I would just remind you that God planned to have a single nation descended, biologically, from Abraham. But He planned to have many nations of faith, not biologically descended from Abraham.

The idea that Israel began as 12 "little nations" indicates the same thing, that God wanted to have redeemed societies, and not just saved individuals. Mass migrations takes individuals and families from the hostile elements of the pagan world, and re-plants them in safer societies or in societies where they can have better access to salvation.

This is the basic blueprint for Israel. God took Abraham out of pagan Chaldea and re-planted him in the land God showed him.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But they might find the Lord if a substantial number of Christians live there

That's why they should find another country other than the US to go to.

Here, all they'll get is false doctrine.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's why they should find another country other than the US to go to.

Here, all they'll get is false doctrine.

Brother, I'm not saying I prefer that all these people come here (I'm in the US). I'm just trying to figure out why God is letting all of this happen. If you have any ideas, I'm open to hearing it?

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is a quagmire of evil. And it is going to produce a multitude of sins.
There shall be great opportunities of reward and glory
for them that know the Lord.

When a country like mine lets down its guard, evil rises from within. And later, evil is allowed to come in without resistance.

This is a punishment the US deserves. And yet, there is opportunity for these people to get help, both materially and spiritually. Some, however, come just to do us harm.

My prayer is that our current administration lose at the next election, and conservatives come back into power, including some strong Christian leadership. I'm encouraged that we have a Christian leader over the House of Representatives. I'm encouraged that some strong Christian leaders are fighting the good fight in the social media, on podcasts, etc. The end is not yet.....

 

[Jay Ross]

Here is the answer to the question being posed regarding “Why the mass migrations into formerly "Christian nations"?” affecting the status of the Coalition of the Willing members since the 2003 invasion of Iraq/Babylon after the 9/11 event.

Jeremiah 51:11-16: -
11 Make the arrows bright!
Gather the shields!
The Lord has raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes.
For His plan is against Babylon to destroy it,(a)
Because it is the vengeance of the Lord,
The vengeance for His temple.
12 Set up the standard on the walls of Babylon;
Make the guard strong,
Set up the watchmen,
Prepare the ambushes.
For the Lord has both devised and done
What He spoke against the inhabitants of Babylon.
13 O you who dwell by many waters,
Abundant in treasures,
Your end has come,
The measure of your covetousness. (b)
14 The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:
"Surely, I will fill you with men, who devour much,
And they shall lift up a shout against you."

15 He has made the earth by His power;
He has established the world by His wisdom,
And stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
16 When He utters His voice —
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
"He causes the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth;
He makes lightnings for the rain;
He brings the wind out of His treasuries.”(c)

Notes: -

(a): - This sentence is probably talking about the Islamic fighting force know as Isis, which have come out of the area of Persia which today is know as Iran.

(b): - It is my opinion that God is speaking of the member nations of the Coalition of the willing, lead by the USA President that went with the USA to invade Iraq to heal the land instead of destroying it.

(c): - It is my view that Jeremaih is speaking of the issues associated with climate change.

 

[MatthewG]

Please draw the conclusion from this you wish to make, so I don't have to guess? Thank you.

I would just remind you that God planned to have a single nation descended, biologically, from Abraham. But He planned to have many nations of faith, not biologically descended from Abraham.

The idea that Israel began as 12 "little nations" indicates the same thing, that God wanted to have redeemed societies, and not just saved individuals. Mass migrations takes individuals and families from the hostile elements of the pagan world, and re-plants them in safer societies or in societies where they can have better access to salvation.

This is the basic blueprint for Israel. God took Abraham out of pagan Chaldea and re-planted him in the land God showed him.

Has God redeemed the world yet or are people still waiting concerning the state of a place that you do not believe has been redeemed, Randy?

To me all nations have been blessed.

Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed My voice.”

Of course I believe Jesus had already came back and has dealt with, sin, death, hell, and Satan.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I'm just trying to figure out why God is letting all of this happen.

The same reason why He allowed Adam and Eve to sin!
It's very simple... those that do not submit themselves to the Lord become corrupt (UNrighteous, rejected by the Lord)

The US has turned away from the Lord and just like in ancient Israel when they turned their
backs on the Lord... they Lord allows their enemies to over take them and destroy them.

It's just a matter of time before the United States falls...

 

[Randy Kluth]

Has God redeemed the world yet or are people still waiting concerning the state of a place that you do not believe has been redeemed, Randy?

Christ has done the legal work of redemption. What has not yet been completed is the mission of the Gospel. People in other parts of the world have been hindered from hearing the full and clear Gospel message. So He may be bringing them into societies that are more open so they can hear.

Sadly, many Western societies have become so biased against Christianity that one is constantly exposed to Leftist propaganda to do what has been done in pagan countries or in Muslim countries. There is a blatant attempt to undermine the Christian premise that the truth is in the Gospel. Still, people come here, and I assume, some are able to hear the real Gospel and get Saved?

 

[MatthewG]

Randy what do you say that when the bible talks about the Faith of a people being heard of all over the world at that time, it's impossible for it to be for that section of area and time of those days in question?

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.

There are some who continue to suggest the Gospel still has people to reach, but according here, it reached all over the world at the time, what one decides is true or not of course is between themselves and their desires of what they desire to see an outcome which they may never see.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Randy what do you say that when the bible talks about the Faith of a people being heard of all over the world at that time, it's impossible for it to be for that section of area and time of those days in question?

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.

There are some who continue to suggest the Gospel still has people to reach, but according here, it reached all over the world at the time, what one decides is true or not of course is between themselves and their desires of what they desire to see an outcome which they may never see.

Yes, I've tried to face that reality myself, that the Scriptures say the Gospel has already reached the whole world and yet claims the Gospel must be preached until the end of the age. Is this a contradiction?

The way I choose to answer this is by determining that the statements have their own context. When it is said that the Gospel has reached the whole world, there are 2 elements of this I wish to share.

One, the initial output of Jesus' Gospel did reach the entire length and width of the Roman Empire, which was the "world" largely spoken of in the Bible. There was little effort to treat the entire globe as a globe, but only the predominant power in that region. Of course, we know that God's end-game was to reach the entire globe.

Two, the Gospel is *always* being communicated by the Holy Spirit to the consciences of men, by virtue of their having been created in the image of God. Every man "hears," if only in a limited way, the word of divine morality. They are being judged, as we speak, for the way they choose to operate in conjunction with what they hear from God in their conscience.

So the Gospel, as a mission, committed to reach the whole world progressively by the preaching of the Gospel, is indeed incomplete, and will likely still be going on when Christ returns. Not only are there parts of the world who have heard incomplete versions of the Gospel, or even misinformation about the Gospel, but there is always a constant need to reform areas that have already known the Gospel. It is an endless need to preserve truth and morality, as we've seen in ancient Israel and in the history of Christianity.

It appears that God wishes to do more than just preach the Gospel through angels and through His Holy Spirit. Much more than this, God wishes to direct His agencies to work *through Man himself,* so that what Man cast aside now Man must pick back up.

And so, what God could do in a second, by announcing to the whole world, on a heavenly public address system, the truths of the Gospel, He has limited Himself to work through the slowness of human beings, whose obedience is slowed by their own moral failures and weaknesses. The Gospel, however, must still be preached, and ministers must learn to persevere in difficult circumstances.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The same reason why He allowed Adam and Eve to sin!
It's very simple... those that do not submit themselves to the Lord become corrupt (UNrighteous, rejected by the Lord)

The US has turned away from the Lord and just like in ancient Israel when they turned their
backs on the Lord... they Lord allows their enemies to over take them and destroy them.

It's just a matter of time before the United States falls...

Yes, the "sky is falling," but in the meantime we have a job to do.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yes, the "sky is falling," but in the meantime we have a job to do.

Only those that don't know the Lord are in fear and anxiety about what
is coming upon the earth and their hearts are failing therm (Luke 21:26)

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, I've tried to face that reality myself, that the Scriptures say the Gospel has already reached the whole world and yet claims the Gospel must be preached until the end of the age. Is this a contradiction?

There couldn't be, if you consider Revelation truly written to 7 churches in a time of what things were to fall upon them soon with the return of the Lord, right Randy?

The way I choose to answer this is by determining that the statements have their own context. When it is said that the Gospel has reached the whole world, there are 2 elements of this I wish to share.

One, the initial output of Jesus' Gospel did reach the entire length and width of the Roman Empire, which was the "world" largely spoken of in the Bible. There was little effort to treat the entire globe as a globe, but only the predominant power in that region. Of course, we know that God's end-game was to reach the entire globe.

Two, the Gospel is *always* being communicated by the Holy Spirit to the consciences of men, by virtue of their having been created in the image of God. Every man "hears," if only in a limited way, the word of divine morality. They are being judged, as we speak, for the way they choose to operate in conjunction with what they hear from God in their conscience.

So the Gospel, as a mission, committed to reach the whole world progressively by the preaching of the Gospel, is indeed incomplete, and will likely still be going on when Christ returns. Not only are there parts of the world who have heard incomplete versions of the Gospel, or even misinformation about the Gospel, but there is always a constant need to reform areas that have already known the Gospel. It is an endless need to preserve truth and morality, as we've seen in ancient Israel and in the history of Christianity.

It appears that God wishes to do more than just preach the Gospel through angels and through His Holy Spirit. Much more than this, God wishes to direct His agencies to work *through Man himself,* so that what Man cast aside now Man must pick back up.

And so, what God could do in a second, by announcing to the whole world, on a heavenly public address system, the truths of the Gospel, He has limited Himself to work through the slowness of human beings, whose obedience is slowed by their own moral failures and weaknesses. The Gospel, however, must still be preached, and ministers must learn to persevere in difficult circumstances.

From my experience of now being a person who has decided to follow after the Lord Yeshua, for I guess going on since 2016. There is a better resurrection for those who decide to live their life for Yahavah. Out of humility, and lowliness. They will be rewarded. While my own stance, is that what was stated is true, Jesus came back to get his bride as promised, and with the doing away of Material Religion. Yahavah, continues to call out to all people, by and through creation, the conscious, by and through the Law of the Old, by and through Jesus, by and through the letters of the apostles, by and through people who continue to share, and by and through the Spirit which Jesus has made people have the ability to obtain if they choose to have faith, and pray and introduce Yahavah into their life by and through prayer and have their subjective relationship.


The last thing on my mind personally is "the end of the world" the knowing of "Hey I am gonna die" is already apparent enough. When it comes to the end of that Age, and the World they knew though, I believe there was a complete turn around since that day of Yahavah and reliquenshing his wrath upon his people, with plagues and death, and the Lord Yeshua rescuing the bride and those were told to wait and were patiently watching, were taken saved from that great tribulation of pains and anguish, which was for the killing of the Son of God, which is justifiable in my opinion.


That is all I desired to share with you in return, whatever you choose to do, remember that is an reward for a life given and lived for Yahavah, in faith, and of course - LOVE - because there is nothing greater than that, with faith and hope combined together. Doesn't mean we dont call the law to report a crime, or do not help a lost brother or sister, friend, or atheist, stanger it's just by the spirit living in love, and in faith and trusting that all of these things have got to be the betterment of people whom are believers who continue to trust in God, and his promises, and even the promises of the Lord Jesus Christ and his coming, in understanding those the first bride was taken, that does not mean there are not more fruits to come off of the gardening grove, or vines harvesting more grapes after the first season.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There couldn't be, if you consider Revelation truly written to 7 churches in a time of what things were to fall upon them soon with the return of the Lord, right Randy?

Right, the Gospel had not yet been fully preached because the end was not yet. And the Gospel mission does not end until the end.

From my experience of now being a person who has decided to follow after the Lord Yeshua, for I guess going on since 2016. There is a better resurrection for those who decide to live their life for Yahavah. Out of humility, and lowliness. They will be rewarded.

Yes, I always try to support discipleship teaching. You *will* be rewarded for living a humble life, and one that brings glory to our God.

While my own stance, is that what was stated is true, Jesus came back to get his bride as promised, and with the doing away of Material Religion. Yahavah, continues to call out to all people, by and through creation, the conscious, by and through the Law of the Old, by and through Jesus, by and through the letters of the apostles, by and through people who continue to share, and by and through the Spirit which Jesus has made people have the ability to obtain if they choose to have faith, and pray and introduce Yahavah into their life by and through prayer and have their subjective relationship.

Using the name "Yahweh" does not give religion any special relevance. God is God whatever name you choose to refer to Him. You have to have the right Spirit and the right Word.

The Law can testify to our God, but we are no longer under that Law. I am suspicious of those who use Jewish terms like "Yahweh," and then say the Law leads us to "Spiritual Religion," whatever that means.

The Law is an outdated covenant that can indeed help us to understand God's eternal ways. We just need to rely on the better covenant of Christian Grace. We don't have to keep laws anymore that refer to a redemption that we already have. OT laws provided temporary protection. Christ provides eternal protection.

The last thing on my mind personally is "the end of the world" the knowing of "Hey I am gonna die" is already apparent enough. When it comes to the end of that Age, and the World they knew though, I believe there was a complete turn around since that day of Yahavah and reliquenshing his wrath upon his people, with plagues and death, and the Lord Yeshua rescuing the bride and those were told to wait and were patiently watching, were taken saved from that great tribulation of pains and anguish, which was for the killing of the Son of God, which is justifiable in my opinion.

I'm Postribulational in belief. We are delivered from the wrath of "Hell," if you will. We are not delivered from Tribulation. Well, our deliverance comes when Jesus returns to deliver us from the Antichrist, which is at the point where Antichrist is defeated.

That is all I desired to share with you in return, whatever you choose to do, remember that is an reward for a life given and lived for Yahavah, in faith, and of course - LOVE - because there is nothing greater than that, with faith and hope combined together. Doesn't mean we dont call the law to report a crime, or do not help a lost brother or sister, friend, or atheist, stanger it's just by the spirit living in love, and in faith and trusting that all of these things have got to be the betterment of people whom are believers who continue to trust in God, and his promises, and even the promises of the Lord Jesus Christ and his coming, in understanding those the first bride was taken, that does not mean there are not more fruits to come off of the gardening grove, or vines harvesting more grapes after the first season.

Yes, love is a big deal. Eschatology comes 2nd. But it figures in arranging our priorities in life. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MatthewG]

Right, the Gospel had not yet been fully preached because the end was not yet. And the Gospel mission does not end until the end.

You know my view. So need to share it anymore with you. The great and dreadful day was upon them, then. The only way that could have happened was the gospel was preached all over the world, and that generation seen all things come to pass as promise to be fulfilled. (Won’t go over it again.)

Yes, I always try to support discipleship teaching. You *will* be rewarded for living a humble life, and one that brings glory to our God.

There will be a reward. You’ll be rewarded with what you spiritually invested in allowing the Lord God to work in and through you in the afterlife which a guaranteed promise to those who are faithful and put Yahavah first.

Using the name "Yahweh" does not give religion any special relevance. God is God whatever name you choose to refer to Him. You have to have the right Spirit and the right Word.

While you may not think that using Yahavah, is a good thing or anything special. It’s important to share the name of God, regardless. It was something the LORD desired, was for all to know his name. It’s not something that should be kept hidden.

I believe it comes down to the matter of a person heart who actively seeking faithfully a relationship with the living creator, who adopts people as his children, and thus we call out abba Father for being adopted as his children. With his spirit now residing within us.

The Law can testify to our God, but we are no longer under that Law. I am suspicious of those who use Jewish terms like "Yahweh," and then say the Law leads us to "Spiritual Religion," whatever that means.

Christ is the end of the law, for righteousness. While the law can be learned from, it’s a spiritual guide map to see where you are in your own spiritual journey with the Lord Yeshua, being the one whom makes you right with God and have peace with Yahavah which goes beyond the world in understanding.

The Law is an outdated covenant that can indeed help us to understand God's eternal ways. We just need to rely on the better covenant of Christian Grace. We don't have to keep laws anymore that refer to a redemption that we already have. OT laws provided temporary protection. Christ provides eternal protection.

All I know is to Love the LORD your God first, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Going and resorting back to the Law is a waste of time, because Yeshua fulfilled it. It’s him who makes a person right with God, according to Paul in Romans chapter 5.

I'm Postribulational in belief. We are delivered from the wrath of "Hell," if you will. We are not delivered from Tribulation. Well, our deliverance comes when Jesus returns to deliver us from the Antichrist, which is at the point where Antichrist is defeated.

Oh okay.

Yes, love is a big deal. Eschatology comes 2nd. But it figures in arranging our priorities in life. Thanks for sharing.

Love is not a big deal, it’s primary, and it’s only done by the Holy Spirit that dwells in you, with the help of the spirit of Christ within us to be able to love our enemies. Our flesh doesn’t desire that.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You know my view.

To be honest, I don't know your view. I deal with at least half a dozen views every day. Sometimes they change. But if you will repeat your views enough times, I will get it. Thanks.