Why the Protestant Reformation did not unite.

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Hobie

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Its incredible how many truths Martin Luther struggled over and it even kept the Reformation from uniting into one church. Martin Luther continued to hold to many beliefs he got as a priest including Transubstantiation, that the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. The leading Protestant reformers Martin Luther and Ulrich Zwingli clashed over this at meeting with many leaders of the reformers in Germany in order to develop a unified Protestant theology. Luther actually because of the differences refused initially to acknowledge Zwingli and his followers as Christians, imagine that.

The two prominent reformers, Luther and Zwingli, found a consensus on fourteen points, but they kept differing on the last one pertaining to the Eucharist. They could not come to a consensus on the Lord’s Supper. Zwingli and his friends held that in no real manner was Christ body or blood present in the Supper, or transubstantiation. Instead, the meal was instituted by Jesus as a remembrance, so that Christians could reflect on Christ and work. On this issue they parted without having reached an agreement.

Luther went forward in the work for God; but coming as he did from the Roman Church, having believed and advocated her doctrines, he and many others could not discern all the errors that had crept in. There were important truths which they failed to discover, and grave errors which they did not renounce or let go. the churches of the Reformation instead of uniting and spreading the gospel, broke down into creeds and failed to continue forward in their search for Gods truth. And now they are slowly going back into the errors that had crept into the early church through the church in Pagan Rome.
 
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Hobie

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We see the errors being put back with a vengeance into the church at the Council of Trent, and the truths of the Reformation being torn down, especially on this point. The Council of Trent was held in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation; it approved many pagan and unbiblical beliefs and declared it was to be accepted under the threat of "anathema".

The Council of Trent declared in its proclamation's the following:

It denied all the doctrines of the Reformation, from Sola Scriptura to "salvation by grace through faith alone" and pronounced anathemas (basically eternal damnation) upon anyone believing what the scripture shows and the Reformation held and preached.

It gave equal value and authority of tradition and Scripture (in actuality, tradition is held above Scripture) and so allowed for all the pagan rites and rituals it had allowed into the church.

Declared the Scriptures was for the priesthood only, and prohibited to anyone in the laity without written permission from one's superior -- to violate this was considered a mortal sin.

Confirmed the seven sacraments which basically were of pagan origin in the form they brought in. They held seven sacraments: baptism, confirmation, Eucharist (mass), penance/reconciliation (indulgences), extreme unction (last rights), marriage, and orders (ordination). Although not even formally decreed until the Council of Florence in 1439, the Council of Trent later declared all to be anathema whom do not hold Rome's position that it was Christ Himself who instituted these seven sacraments, but the form they used were from paganism more than anything from scripture.

Confirmed Purgatory which has no biblical basis but of pagan origin.Though of pagan origin, the Roman Church proclaimed it as an article of faith in 1439 at the Council of Florence, and it was confirmed by Trent in 1548. The Catholic Church teaches that even those "who die in the state of grace" (i.e., saved and sins forgiven) must still spend an indefinite time being purged/purified (i.e., expiated of sins/cleansed for heaven).

Confirmed the use Indulgences of which clearly is not sanctioned by the scriptures.

Confirmed the Mass as a propitiatory offering.The Mass was unknown in the early church, the mass did not become an official doctrine until pronounced by the Lateran Council of 1215 under the direction of Pope Innocent III, and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent.

Confirmed the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Lateran Council of 469 under Pope Martin I declared: "if anyone does not confess in harmony with the holy Fathers that the holy and ever virgin and immaculate Mary is really and truly the mother of God, inasmuch as she in the last times and without sperm by the Holy Spirit conceived God the Word himself specially and truthfully, who was born from God the Father before all ages, and she bore him uncorrupted, and after his birth her virginity remaining indissoluble, let him be condemned." The perpetual virginity of Mary thus became an official teaching of the church: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Jesus. In 1555, the Council of Trent confirmed this dogma in the Constitution of Pope Paul IV known as "Cum Quorundam." Here the pope warns against teaching that "the same blessed Virgin Mary is not truly the Mother of God, and did not remain always in the integrity of virginity, i. e., before birth, in birth, and perpetually after birth."

Some of the of the Anathemas of Trent:

"If any one shall deny that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore entire Christ, are truly, really, and substantially contained in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist; and shall say that He is only in it as a sign, or in a figure, or virtually -- let him be accursed." (Canon 1).

"If any one shall say that the substance of the bread and wine remains in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, together with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and shall deny that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the outward forms of the bread and wine still remaining, which conversion the Catholic church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be accursed."(Canon 2).

"If any one shall deny, that in the venerated sacrament of the Eucharist, entire Christ is contained in each kind, and in each several particle of either kind when separated, let him be accursed."(Canon 3).

"If any one shall say that, after consecration, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is only in the wonderful sacrament of the Eucharist in use whilst it is taken, and not either before or after, and that the true body of the Lord does not remain in the hosts or particles which have been consecrated, and which are reserved, or remain after the communion, let him be accursed."(Canon 4).

"If any one says that the principal fruit of the most holy Eucharist is the remission of sins or that other effects do not result from it, let him be accursed." (Canon 5).

"If any man shall say that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is not to be adored in the holy sacrament of the Eucharist, even with the open worship of latria, and therefore not to be venerated with any peculiar festal celebrity, nor to be solemnly carried about in processions according to the praiseworthy, and universal rites and customs of the holy Church, and that he is not to be publicly set before the people to be adored, and that his adorers are idolaters -- let him be accursed." (Canon 6).

"If anyone shall say that the ungodly man is justified by faith only so as to understand that nothing else is required that may cooperate to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is in no wise necessary for him to be prepared and disposed by the motion of his own will ... let him be accursed." (Canon 9).

"If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed." (Canon 12).

Here we see the Council of Trent sets forth the pagan 'Mystery' of the Eucharist. Now in the sacrament of the Eucharist, was the doctrine of Transubstantiation which is the change whereby, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. However the doctrine of transubstantiation does not date back to the Last Supper as is supposed.

Like many of the beliefs and rites of the Roman Catholic Church, transubstantiation origin is from paganism, and was first practiced by pagan religions. Bible scholar and historian Durant said that belief in transubstantiation as practiced by the priests of the Roman Catholic system is "one of the oldest ceremonies of primitive religion." [The Story Of Civilization, p. 741.] The Mystery of the Eucharist

It was never held in the early church and took many centuries before officially becoming an article of faith by the church of Rome, which means that it is essential to salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church. The idea of a corporal presence was not part of beliefs, but brought in by other means, then we see in 831 A.D. Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine monk, published a treatise openly advocating the doctrine of transubstantiation. Paschachius Wrote on Christ's Body & Blood
 
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Wrangler

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Its incredible how many truths Martin Luther struggled over and it even kept the Reformation from uniting into one church.
What's more incredible is you supposing unity and protesting abuses by the Roman Catholic Church are related in any way whatsoever.

A common plight of all revolutionaries is that while they may be united in opposition, they often lack any unity in supporting a positive proposition. While we may all be opposed - in theory - to war, starvation and abuse of power, a student of history struggles to find their absence in all of human history.
 

quietthinker

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Its incredible how many truths Martin Luther struggled over and it even kept the Reformation from uniting into one church. Martin Luther continued to hold to many beliefs he got as a priest including Transubstantiation, that the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. The leading Protestant reformers Martin Luther and Ulrich Zwingli clashed over this at meeting with many leaders of the reformers in Germany in order to develop a unified Protestant theology. Luther actually because of the differences refused initially to acknowledge Zwingli and his followers as Christians, imagine that.

The two prominent reformers, Luther and Zwingli, found a consensus on fourteen points, but they kept differing on the last one pertaining to the Eucharist. They could not come to a consensus on the Lord’s Supper. Zwingli and his friends held that in no real manner was Christ body or blood present in the Supper, or transubstantiation. Instead, the meal was instituted by Jesus as a remembrance, so that Christians could reflect on Christ and work. On this issue they parted without having reached an agreement.

Luther went forward in the work for God; but coming as he did from the Roman Church, having believed and advocated her doctrines, he and many others could not discern all the errors that had crept in. There were important truths which they failed to discover, and grave errors which they did not renounce or let go. the churches of the Reformation instead of uniting and spreading the gospel, broke down into creeds and failed to continue forward in their search for Gods truth. And now they are slowly going back into the errors that had crept into the early church through the church in Pagan Rome.
the inculcation of Rome's theology had a tenacious grip just like the faulty theologies here on these boards are not given up easily if at all
 

Behold

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"If anyone shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed,,,

Reader,

see that statement?

Its a denier of this...."FAITH is counted as Righteousness"..."Justification by FAITH" without works or deeds of the law.

That is a denial of Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God.
Its a complete denial, and, it is teaching that if you believe that "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved".....then you, according to this Catholic doctrine, are not only deceived, but you are cursed of God..

Listen..

That Catholic doctrine is stating that Paul's Gospel is cursed of God..


A.) Welcome to the Catholic "Cult of Mary:. The absolute denier of God's Grace and the accuser of the Brethren.

A cult that teaches that Mary flew to heaven, and that water is your salvation.
 

quietthinker

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What are some of the 'faulty theologies' you have seen here.
1 ...the premise that God requires blood to forgive and needed to have Jesus killed so he could.
2...that immortality is a given and eternal torture in flames is generated by God.
3 That God's ten commandments are done away

the list goes on
 

M3n0r4h

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1 ...the premise that God requires blood to forgive and needed to have Jesus killed so he could.
2...that immortality is a given and eternal torture in flames is generated by God.
3 That God's ten commandments are done away

the list goes on
While point #3 may not be without merit, my question would be; are you merely parroting the teachings of Ellen G. White and the SDA denomination, or do you believe that your above points #1 and #2 are based upon reliable scripture?
 

Jim B

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1 ...the premise that God requires blood to forgive and needed to have Jesus killed so he could.
2...that immortality is a given and eternal torture in flames is generated by God.
3 That God's ten commandments are done away

the list goes on
1 & 2) So Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was unnecessary? John 3:16, "“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
3) Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.

Of course, these apply to Christians only. Those who haven't accepted Christ as their Savior do not have eternal life. The OT laws are still in effect for those who haven't accepted Christ as their Savior.

I suggest reading your Bible!
 

quietthinker

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While point #3 may not be without merit, my question would be; are you merely parroting the teachings of Ellen G. White and the SDA denomination, or do you believe that your above points #1 and #2 are based upon reliable scripture?
Scripture is to be interpreted through the reality of Jesus, yitoz. This is where and how I draw my conclusions
 

GRACE ambassador

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Its incredible how many truths Martin Luther struggled over and it even kept the Reformation from uniting into one church.
Praise God, we can be united In The LORD Jesus Christ, Without Any Confusing religious
theologies, simply by Grace Through faith, In Him, loving our neighbor, and studying His
Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided!

"Simplicity In Christ!" Amen.
 

quietthinker

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1 & 2) So Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was unnecessary? John 3:16, "“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life."
3) Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code.

Of course, these apply to Christians only. Those who haven't accepted Christ as their Savior do not have eternal life. The OT laws are still in effect for those who haven't accepted Christ as their Savior.

I suggest reading your Bible!
Jim, you are posting scriptures assuming I'm arguing against them. I am not. What I am arguing against is how those scriptures are to understood/ interpreted.

It is assumed God requires blood to forgive yet the reality of Jesus shows us otherwise. This is what needs exploring .....if one has the courage to put long held views on hold while listening to that which I think is a far far more compelling narrative.

Your suggestion that I read my Bible assumes I don't. I will dismiss the condescension in that statement as that of ignorance because I do read my Bible .....and perhaps surprisingly to you, I make beautiful discoveries. :)
 

Angelina

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Its incredible how many truths Martin Luther struggled over and it even kept the Reformation from uniting into one church. Martin Luther continued to hold to many beliefs he got as a priest including Transubstantiation, that the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. The leading Protestant reformers Martin Luther and Ulrich Zwingli clashed over this at meeting with many leaders of the reformers in Germany in order to develop a unified Protestant theology. Luther actually because of the differences refused initially to acknowledge Zwingli and his followers as Christians, imagine that.

The two prominent reformers, Luther and Zwingli, found a consensus on fourteen points, but they kept differing on the last one pertaining to the Eucharist. They could not come to a consensus on the Lord’s Supper. Zwingli and his friends held that in no real manner was Christ body or blood present in the Supper, or transubstantiation. Instead, the meal was instituted by Jesus as a remembrance, so that Christians could reflect on Christ and work. On this issue they parted without having reached an agreement.

Luther went forward in the work for God; but coming as he did from the Roman Church, having believed and advocated her doctrines, he and many others could not discern all the errors that had crept in. There were important truths which they failed to discover, and grave errors which they did not renounce or let go. the churches of the Reformation instead of uniting and spreading the gospel, broke down into creeds and failed to continue forward in their search for Gods truth. And now they are slowly going back into the errors that had crept into the early church through the church in Pagan Rome.
Oh I personally agree with Zwingli that the Lord's supper was a form of rememberance that Jesus wanted all believers to uphold until his coming. In a sense, he has come in the form of the Holy Spirit who dwells in all believers.