Why you cant lose your salvation.

[us2are1]

Those who think that salvation is won by a incantation of words have never known Christ to begin with.
Salvation is only given at the return of Christ. Who will reward each according to their work. Every ones work will be judged according to what sort it is.
No one is saved until they receive the end of their faith " the salvation of their souls".

Hebrews 10
38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

1 Peter 1
9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

Revelation 22:12
12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

1-Corinthians 3
11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.






.

 

[Stan]

Those who think that salvation is won by a incantation of words have never known Christ to begin with.
Salvation is only given at the return of Christ. Who will reward each according to their work. Every ones work will be judged according to what sort it is.
No one is saved until they receive the end of their faith " the salvation of their souls".

Hebrews 10
38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

1 Peter 1
9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

Revelation 22:12
12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

1-Corinthians 3
11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

Sorry that doesn't fly. Salvation occurs when you ask Jesus into your life. Romans 8:24, Romans 10:9-10, Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42, Eph 2:5 & 8, 2 Tim 1:9, etc....

 

[us2are1]

Sorry that doesn't fly. Salvation occurs when you ask Jesus into your life. Romans 8:24, Romans 10:9-10, Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42, Eph 2:5 & 8, 2 Tim 1:9, etc....

Who's vanity taught you that?
You move into the Life that is in Christ.
You have no life in you until you understand his elementary principals, accept them and then ask Him for His Spirit.

After that you can move on to perfection in Christ



.

 

[Stan]

Who's vanity taught you that?
You move into the Life that is in Christ.
You have no life in you until you understand his elementary principals, accept them and then ask Him for His Spirit.
After that you can move on to perfection in Christ

Did you actually read the scriptures I quoted? You're calling God's Word vain? Who are you, Sherlock Holmes?

Well some people are definitely vain, but never God!

 

[us2are1]

Did you actually read the scriptures I quoted? You're calling God's Word vain? Who are you, Sherlock Holmes?

Well some people are definitely vain, but never God!

Of course I know the scriptures that you referenced.

They don't say anything like what you claimed.

But contrary they are written by and to those who have left all to follow Christ and have entered into His Life.





.

 

[Stan]

Of course I know the scriptures that you referenced.
They don't say anything like what you claimed.
But contrary they are written by and to those who have left all to follow Christ and have entered into His Life.

NOT what I asked. If you read them you will see all the tenses are in the past or present, when a sinner comes to Christ, which totally refutes your assertion that salvation is in the future. Eternal Life is in the future, salvation is now.
I also suggest you read 2 Cor 6:2 and Luke 19:9..... TODAY is the day of salvation.

 

[us2are1]

NOT what I asked. If you read them you will see all the tenses are in the past or present, when a sinner comes to Christ, which totally refutes your assertion that salvation is in the future. Eternal Life is in the future, salvation is now.
I also suggest you read 2 Cor 6:2 and Luke 19:9..... TODAY is the day of salvation.

Again none of those scriptures say any of the vanity that you suppose. But sense you need fleshly means to understand, here are a few scriptures that annul the vanity of which you speak.


Romans 13:11 NKJV

And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation [/background]is nearer than when we first believed.


Philippians 2:12 NKJV

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background] with fear and trembling;



1 Peter 1:5 NKJV

who are kept by the power of God through faith for [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background] ready to be revealed in the last time.


1 Peter 1:9 NKJV

receiving the end of your faith--the [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background] of your souls.


2 Peter 3:15 NKJV

and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background]--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,


Matthew 10:22 NKJV

And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background].


Mark 13:13 NKJV

And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background].


1 Corinthians 1:18 NKJV

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being[background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background] it is the power of God.


1 Corinthians 15:2 NKJV

by which also you are [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background], if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

This whole writing of Jude is on this subject. Can you hear what he is saying?

1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: 2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. [background=rgb(246, 246, 152)]5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. [/background]6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.






.

 

[Kidron]

Do you have scripture to confirm these things?

How many do you need?
Ive posted about 15 so far.
Need more?

What you believe about once saved always saved has nothing to do with the way to God or salvation.
Jesus said: " I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father but by me.

You are getting warmer.
So, once you realizes that the only WAY to God, is the only WAY to STAY SAVED, you will finally be on track.
There's hope.




K

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Reading the bible then saying you "have" Jesus because you read something you liked has no basis in reality. And you wonder why the old RC corporation banned bible reading? Not that I agree with the RC....but to do such a disservice to the word... :wacko:

I "have" Jesus, because i received him by FAITH.


K

How ironic that OSAS provides no assurance of faith, all. The only thing that happens is instead of worrying that you may lose your salvation, the Christian worries that they were never saved in the first place. It is like trying to hold onto a fist full of sand.....

Are you worried that you were never saved in the first place?
You needed worry, Aspen, unless you think that water baptism washed your sins away.
If that is the case, then worry.



K

When I was in Catholic School, we were indeed forbidden from reading the Bible.
They said there was information in the Bible that would only confuse us and "all we needed to know" is in the Catechism.

An honest response by a Catholic?
First ive read online since 2004.
Thanx.



K

I used to think this was ridiculous...but the way people twist the meaning of scripture and false pastors warp the minds of their listeners I must say that there is a certain wisdom in this.

Episkopos,

it must be very tiring to endlessly have to make excuses (lie) to try to cover up your churche's nonsense.
It would be a lot easier to just leave all that devilish deceit behind and join the real body of Christ.
Christ is ready when you are.


K

Hi Episkopos and Foreigner,



Isn't the problem of not understanding the scriptures due almost entirely to reading them without the assistance of the Holy Spirit's teaching? If one has been taught by a Spirit-filled teacher, God can use that to implant truth, but if the teacher was not taught by the Holy Spirit, the reader receives the words in a different way. In fact, if the student has the Holy Spirit, but the teacher doesn't, it can be a most uncomfortable experience to listen.

Episkopos, I would like to think your comment was written in haste, and that really you both believe it would be better for God to do the teaching.

Actually the problem is that a person will tend to accept teachings that tickle their ears.
For example, if you are a self-righteous person, you will tend to accept all teaching that tells you that you can lose your salvation, or that you have to work to keep it.
If you are a greedy person, you will tend to gravitate towards teachers who stress the "prosperity" of the gospel...


etc.



K

 

[us2are1]

I "have" Jesus, because i received him by FAITH.
K
Are you worried that you were never saved in the first place?
You needed worry, Aspen, unless you think that water baptism washed your sins away.
If that is the case, then worry.



K


An honest response by a Catholic?
First ive read online since 2004.
Thanx.
K
Episkopos,
it must be very tiring to endlessly have to make excuses (lie) to try to cover up your churche's nonsense.
It would be a lot easier to just leave all that devilish deceit behind and join the real body of Christ.
Christ is ready when you are.
K
Actually the problem is that a person will tend to accept teachings that tickle their ears.
For example, if you are a self-righteous person, you will tend to accept all teaching that tells you that you can lose your salvation, or that you have to work to keep it.
If you are a greedy person, you will tend to gravitate towards teachers who stress the "prosperity" of the gospel...
etc.
K

there are no scriptures that say any of the vanity that you suppose. But sense you need fleshly means to understand, here are a few scriptures that annul the vanity of which you speak.


Romans 13:11 NKJV

And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation [/background]is nearer than when we first believed.


Philippians 2:12 NKJV

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,work out your own [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background] with fear and trembling;



1 Peter 1:5 NKJV

who are kept by the power of God through faith for [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background] ready to be revealed in the last time.


1 Peter 1:9 NKJV

receiving the end of your faith--the [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background] of your souls.


2 Peter 3:15 NKJV

and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]salvation[/background]--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,


Matthew 10:22 NKJV

And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background].


Mark 13:13 NKJV

And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background].


1 Corinthians 1:18 NKJV

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being[background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background] it is the power of God.


1 Corinthians 15:2 NKJV

by which also you are [background=rgb(255, 255, 150)]saved[/background], if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.

This whole writing of Jude is on this subject. Can you hear what he is saying?

1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: 2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. [background=rgb(246, 246, 152)]5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. [/background]6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

 

[Episkopos]

Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:




The word faith in Greek is pistis. This is normally translated as "faith" but could also be translated as "faithfulness".

Is this important!??? Absolutely!

Faith in a biblical sense presupposes an ongoing faithfulness. It is the ongoing faithfulness to Christ that keeps us in Christ.

Do a search for the word "faithfulness" in the NT. This word is never used....why??? Because the word for faith ALSO means faithfulness.

Unless you think God is not interested in faithfulness.

It changes the perspective of an initial act of faith and an obedience to the commandments of Christ.

So I would say.. Faith without faithfulness is dead (or not faith in the end)

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

I agree. When I looked at the word recently, it was definitely about an ongoing relationship.

Do you know that the only time the word 'faith' is used in John's gospel, is when Jesus tells Thomas not to be 'faithless' (but believing)'. That whole emphasis on believing God is where the other translations of faith - persuasion, credence - rest.

On your point about faithfulness, when in Mark 11:22 Jesus is quoted saying 'Have faith in God', it can be better translated to 'Hold the faithfulness of God'. I camp on that ground, mostly.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

I agree. When I looked at the word recently, it was definitely about an ongoing relationship.

Do you know that the only time the word 'faith' is used in John's gospel, is when Jesus tells Thomas not to be 'faithless' (but believing)'. That whole emphasis on believing God is where the other translations of faith - persuasion, credence - rest.

On your point about faithfulness, when in Mark 11:22 Jesus is quoted saying 'Have faith in God', it can be better translated to 'Hold the faithfulness of God'. I camp on that ground, mostly.

Or...we are saved by grace through a continuing faithfulness...without faithfulness it is impossible to please God...etc..

 

[dragonfly]

Or...we are saved by grace through a continuing faithfulness...without faithfulness it is impossible to please God...

I'll need to keep that in mind when I'm reading. I know it's true from everything the OT teaches us. There was a king who was faithful to God the whole of his reign until near the end, and then he blew his whole credibility with God by moving on to a human solution in a new crisis, instead of turning to God as he had in the past. God reprimanded him for it sharply, and there was a punishment. I can't remember his name right now.

 

[Episkopos]

I'll need to keep that in mind when I'm reading. I know it's true from everything the OT teaches us. There was a king who was faithful to God the whole of his reign until near the end, and then he blew his whole credibility with God by moving on to a human solution in a new crisis, instead of turning to God as he had in the past. God reprimanded him for it sharply, and there was a punishment. I can't remember his name right now.

2Ch 26:16 But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.
2Ch 26:21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD: and Jotham his son was over the king's house, judging the people of the land.

 

[JohnnyB]

The way I see salvation is what Paul is talking about when he discusses "running the race". It is something on-going
It is continuing in the faith. He gives us examples of those running but stumbling, in Gal 5:7 "You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth". Which is an example of faithless.

That's how I see it.

 

[Episkopos]

The way I see salvation is what Paul is talking about when he discusses "running the race". It is something on-going
It is continuing in the faith. He gives us examples of those running but stumbling, in Gal 5:7 "You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth". Which is an example of faithless.

That's how I see it.

You see it well! God begins the race for us through what Jesus did for us...then He seeks to run the race THROUGH us in order to win and overcome.

Salvation is both an event and a process leading to the full stature of Christ. We are in a race for the perfecting of our faithfulness which preserves our souls as entirely His. In other words our spirits are quickened in order that we walk out the salvation of our souls...with fear and trembling!

Peace

 

[JohnnyB]

Are you saying our initial experience and recognition of Christ is salvation? I see it as the calling and invitation, an enabling for us to walk in Christ, to run the race, towards salvation and to the full stature of Christ. I don' t see how it is both a one time event and on going. I see it as salvation and sanctificatlon go hand and hand. If that makes any sense.

The group we fellowship with are the only people I know who sees this, until I found this website.

 

[Episkopos]

Are you saying our initial experience and recognition of Christ is salvation? I see it as the calling and invitation, an enabling for us to walk in Christ, to run the race, towards salvation and to the full stature of Christ. I don' t see how it is both a one time event and on going. I see it as salvation and sanctificatlon go hand and hand. If that makes any sense.

The group we fellowship with are the only people I know who sees this, until I found this website.

I Agree! I never say>>I'm saved!!! But I have been saved (past tense) through the regeneration of my heart through the Spirit. I am BEING saved in my soul. And I will be saved through the redemption of my body by it's renewing according to the stature of Christ I have attained to.

The race is not over until it is over. How we finish is very important. But we are building on a foundation that Christ has already begun in us. If we remain faithful to Him then He will remain faithful towards us. If we forsake Him then He will forsake us.

Sanctification is a part of the process of salvation. Few do see this. The race requires many steps to finish....too many see the first step as equivalent to finishing the race.

But we must be careful HOW we are running. If we are running in our own strength then we risk finishing the race with wood, hay, and stubble as our accomplishments. Every step is to be taken in the Lord and in His strength..then we are building with acceptable and approved materials...gold, silver..etc...

So we are building on the foundation of a salvation through a new birth in Christ. All things are become new. Then we run the race in the new creation leaning NOT on our own understanding but by quiet resolution to the obedience of God through His word and through His Spirit. That is how we run the race!

Maranatha

 

[JohnnyB]

Hi Episkopos,

Yes, this I see and understand. I would call this living a Spirit led life and we know them by their fruit, evident by the working of the Spirit in their life. If there is no evidence of transformation then we should question His existance in us.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

Yes, this I see and understand. I would call this living a Spirit led life and we know them by their fruit, evident by the working of the Spirit in their life. If there is no evidence of transformation then we should question His existance in us.

Very good! You are blessed!