Why you cant lose your salvation.

[Kidron]

The only people who argue that you can lose your salvation are those who are..

A.) not saved.

[font=lucida sans unicode']B.) do not understand what GRACE actually is and does.[/font]


[font=lucida sans unicode']So lets just keep this simple.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']To begin with, i can post all the wrongly divided and misunderstood... "lose your salvation scriptures"... that the deceived will post to try to harm your mind and your walk with God.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']I can go directly to the book of Hebrews, (written to the Hebrews), and pull out the verses that most of you will use who think you can lose your salvation..[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']You know, the one about "if we sin willfully there remaineth"...[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']But i wont go there, because those scriptures are not written doctrinally to anyone who is saved.[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']You probably didnt notice that, because your limited bible understanding has concluded that........"if its in the bible, its DOCTRINE for the believer".[/font]
[font=lucida sans unicode']And of course this is nonsense.[/font]

[font=lucida sans unicode']I can go to Paul's comment about being a "castaway"just like you can.[/font]

I can post the scripture that says if you dont forgive, or if you deny Christ, .........""

But there is no need to do any of that because you cannot lose your salvation.
And again..........you cannot lose your salvation.
You could not lose it if you tried, if you wanted to, if you hoped you could, or if you decided you would.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to lose your salvation.
You cannot be UNBORN again.

Now for the benefit of those Christians here who are worried they could lose it, or worried they did.
Let me assure you that you cannot lose your salvation, you have not lost it, and you will NEVER lose it.

Now, why does a person think they can lose their salvation.??????
Hebrews 5:13 tells you why......"For everyone that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness, for you are a BABY""

The reason you think you can lose it, is explained in these 6 words from that verse.....""unskillful in the word of RIGHTEOUSNESS".

Now....are you watching the birdy?.........are you paying attention?
What does, "unskillful in the word of RIGHTEOUSNESS" mean????
It means a believer has an immature and under developed understanding of what JUSTIFICATION and IMPUTATION and REDEMPTION means.
It means that you have not even a basic understand of the redemptive process that has happened to you, and if you did, you would never again even consider the possibility that you can lose your salvation.

Now, Let me ask you a question.
Do you think God is stupid?
Let me ask you again.
Do..........you..............think...........God is STUPID?

Do you really believe he would create a salvation that is based on the brutal execution of his Son, and create such a redemption so that you could easily mess it up after he did it?
Do you think God is going to offer you something so important and so costly that you can mess up after you receive it?
He would be STUPID do to that,.........as that is just "the garden of Eden deja vu Part 11"
Do you think God is going to go there again, and let you mess it up, as did Adam?
He would be a FOOL to do that......he would be ignorant to offer again the SAME situation into the hands of MAN,.... KNOWING what MAN will do every time.
Now you think about that.

Now here is what he Did.
The first time, he offered Man a choice, and man chose the apple instead of him.
The second time, God created a redemption that is based on HIM DOING IT ALL and APPLYING IT TO YOU for eternity.
Understand?
See, here is the thing about salvation..........YOU HAVE NO PART IN IT...........except to get it for free.
You dont earn it, you dont deserve it, you dont keep it.........you have NO PART IN IT, as God did the whole thing for you, complete with a sacrifice and a pardon, and all you do is TAKE IT.
And once you do, it is SEALED to you, it is become Who you ARE, it is become your new identity.
The thing you dont understand..........those who think you can lose it and would try to torture other Christians with your madness, is that God purchased you, he bought you with the blood of Christ.
You are the PROPERTY of GOD, and you are never going to be anything else.

Salvation is the means whereby God has become your ETERNAL owner........or as Paul says........."a bondslave" of Christ.
The bible tells you that ""You are NOT YOUR OWN, YOU ARE BOUGHT WITH A PRICE">.""
And the price is the Blood of Christ.
Do you understand that?

And you say......but what if i say......."G...Damn, .....or what if i get angry at God and tell him i hate him and hate his Holy Spirit ?.
So what
Did you ever read about the boy in Corinthians who was sleeping (sex) with his mother?
Its in your New Testament.............and Paul told the church to forgive him......
Oh YEA..
All that is just sin....and all sins have been paid for.. and God does not even now or forever hold you accountable for them.
Did you ever read Romans chapter 4???
God has replaced your sin with his Righteousness.
Done deal.
Your bible tells you that "God does not impute your sin to you".....Romans 4:8
You better study that and get the revelation., and when you do, you'll know the truth.

And the reason you find this shocking is because you think you have some part to play in your redemption.... AND THAT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE "UNSKILLED IN THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"...........REMEMBER????.
That is your issue......>GOTCHA<.......and once you get the revelation that >GOD saved you< and YOU SAVED NOTHING AND CAN SAVE NOTHING..., you will be able to realize that this salvation you have, is actually the price that God paid with the blood of Christ to OWN YOU for ETERNITY.
God owns you, by right, as you gave him this right when you took the free gift.
You are HIS.....bought with the blood of Christ.....and the salvation you have is impossible to lose, because its HIS.........its not yours......IT HIS, he did it, and all he did was apply it to you based on your faith.

Now, had this salvation been based on you keeping it, or earning it, then you would have an argument.
You could say..."well as i did it, i can undo it"............BUT SEE, YOU DIDNT DO IT..........HE DID IT FOR YOU, AND WHAT HE DID, YOU CANT UNDO.......EVER<!!!
The salvation that saved you, is something that God did all by himself, that you have no part in......and he gives it to you.
And once he does, he SEALS it to you forever., or "until the day of redemption" of your body...is what your bible tells you.
DONE DEAL.
Eternally secure.
You cant be unborn again.


So, Saint, whenever you run across some ignorant, mentally twisted bible denying fool, who will try to convince you that you can "lose it".......just ignore them as if they were Satan telling you that Mary or water baptism can save you.


God saved you, and GOD ALONE keeps you saved, and thats the end of it.





K

 

[lawrance]

Rubbish !
People are sinners and can fall into sin.
There is no done deal, or it would of been so easy to say so in the Bible, but fact is it is not said so, is it now boy.
The mob that push this rubbish are working for Satan, as i have seen the works that come from such nonsense, as people become so self assured, that they lead lives worthy of Satan him self, in the belief they are saved.
You must repent of your sins and if you don't you are one of Satan's.
Look at all the foolish so called pastors that runaround pushing so much rubbish, boasting of the worldly works they do with their money.
Remember that Satan hates mother Mary ? because of her we got Jesus Christ.

 

[Selene]

All a Christian need to do in order to lose their salvation is to reject God's grace. And yes, there are Christians who have converted to atheism and even to other religions.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

because those scriptures are not written doctrinally to anyone who is saved.

It was written to Hebrew Christians. It doesn't apply to Hebrew non-Christians, because they are already due for God's wrath. Eph 2:3.

Anyone who is saved, who endures to the end as a faithful soldier of the cross, will be saved. No doubt about it.

 

[Rach1370]

The only people who argue that you can lose your salvation are those who are..

A.) not saved.

[font=lucida sans unicode']B.) do not understand what GRACE actually is and does.[/font]


[font=lucida sans unicode']So lets just keep this simple.[/font]

...maybe a summation of 'simple'??

Rubbish !
People are sinners and can fall into sin.
There is no done deal, or it would of been so easy to say so in the Bible, but fact is it is not said so, is it now boy.

I think scripture make my points for me:

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:1-11 ESV)

What I see here...that salvation is something we have now, and nowhere does it suggest it's probably only temporary due to our sinful natures. I see that we rejoice in the fact that while we were at our worst (sinful and unsaved, rather than just sinful but saved, as we are now) Jesus secured, obtained, justified, reconciled us to God, pouring the promised Holy Spirit into us. What I don't see that saying, or even suggesting, is that the Holy Spirit is given on a 'revolving door' basis...here today, but gone tomorrow, so you better shape up!

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:3-5 ESV)

Here? I see this saying that we don't need to worry about 'holding on' to our salvation by our own efforts (which is silly anyway, when we consider we were never good enough to earn it in the first place...how on earth could we hold on to it!) Our hope is in God, who by his power is guarding our inheritance. It is imperishable, undefiled and unfading.

As far as 'turning away' from our salvation, I debate even that. To do so we would have to be mightier than the will and strength of God...and I believe 'no one' kind of covers it all.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.” (John 10:28-30 ESV)

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Rach,

Are you of the opinion that a saved person cannot sow to the flesh, and reap corruption rather than everlasting life? Gal 6:7, 8.

 

[Selene]

It is possible to turn away from God because we have the free will to do so. Of the 12 Apostles that Christ chose, Judas Iscariot did turn away; yet, he was chosen by Christ. He was indeed an Apostle, but he made the decision to murder himself rather than to trust in God's mercy. It is only through our cooperation with the Holy Spirit that we become one with God for God will not force us to follow Him even if He has chosen us.

When Christ died on the cross, He forgave our sins and we now have access to enter Heaven whereas before we did not have this access. Before Christ died on the cross, all who died did not go to Heaven. They went to the place of the dead that Hebrews call "Sheol." Heaven was closed to mankind until Christ conquered death and freed us from Sheol. His death and resurrection justified us so that we are now redeemed and have fellowship with God.

But that is only the beginning. Now that Christ has redeemed us by giving us this fellowship with Him, we must continue to run the race toward sanctification (1 Corinthians 9:24-27). When we are sanctified, then we will be glorified like Christ.

 

[lawrance]

Rash i may as well rob steal rape become someone that cons people out of their house and life savings, and hey why not, i will be saved, OSAS. i have nothing to lose do i ?
A christian bastard some might say.
A mate of mine who i went to Lutheran Bible study with when we were kids got into drugs and he thinks he is saved "OSAS" he got in with the hells angles thinking he was tough and boy did he go down hill because of this satanic OSAS rubbish.
It make me so angery to see people fall for it, as he was a good person but now he is a total moronic low life that i can not trust at all.

 

[Episkopos]

An unrighteous person sees everything one way. But if we can repent of sin by turning to God then we can also repent of turning to God by turning to sin. Are the ways of the Lord not equal...or are they falsely balanced as men's ways???

For more understanding of the freedom that God gives to His creation I suggest this book...

THE BIBLE!

 

[Kidron]

Rubbish !
People are sinners and can fall into sin.

Yes, Christians "sin" every single day, just like YOU......(in word, deed, or thought)...
You've sinned today, sport.
So did you lose your salvation yet ?????
Funny<<
And, all that happens is that God does not charge it to them, as Jesus has already paid for it.
This is "salvation 101" , Romans 3-7..... Mr Rberger.
Take a class.
Learn a little bit about your redemption and IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS and then you might not have such an argument against God and his word.
Try to get the revelation that Christ has paid for all your sins.
SURPRISE !!!!!
WELCOME TO THE FACT OF SALVATION, where GOD LAYS ALL YOUR SINS ON HIS SON AND DOES NOT HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEM ANYMORE.
ISNT THAT """""GOOD NEWS"........= THATS THE GOSPEL...
See, the Lord and Savior Jesus The Christ, came here, born of a virgin, God wrapped in human flesh, and lived a sinless life, fulfilling the law, then died a willing sinless sacrifice to take upon his body the sins of the world, so that God would hold him accountable for the payment for sins that all Christians deserve.
God did it all.....and offers this pardon, this redemption to anyone who will receive it by faith alone.
Once they do, the righteousness of GOD HIMSELF becomes theirs >ETERNALLY< based on the atonement of Christ.
Isnt the "free gift" salvation AWESOME Mr Rburger??
God does all the paying for all our sins, past, present, and future, .... and we get this free gift by faith alone.

"Grace, Grace, marvelous Grace"..


There is no done deal, or it would of been so easy to say so in the Bible, but fact is it is not said so, is it now boy.


Sure, its a done deal..
A Christian, absolutely cannot lose their salvation.
Its impossible, completely impossible to become unborn again.
When GOD redeems you with the blood of Christ, he has eternally secured your residency in his FAMILY.
>done deal<.


And the bible tells you that, "all who come to Christ =he will by no means or under any condition cast out or discard or get rid of...
Your bible tells you that you are, "sealed till the day of the redemption of your body by the Holy Spirit".
Now, go get your dictionary and look up the word ALL and SEALED, and see if you can comprehend those.

Maybe you should try to read a (non-Catholic) bible and then believe it????
Thats my advice .
Do it ASAP.


The mob that push this rubbish are working for Satan, as i have seen the works that come from such nonsense, as people become so self assured, that they lead lives worthy of Satan him self, in the belief they are saved.


Mr Rberger, you sound frustrated and agitated, and you should......as, you are the worst type to be found on a Christian forum.
Someone who tries to convince Christians that God who loves them unconditionally, and saved them eternally, really didnt do it.
You are the worst of the worst.
You would try to deny that God has saved a person to the uttermost and has said that a believer is "one" with God and Christ, and "bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh".
You would try to deny that being "in CHRIST" is eternal..
So, Where is the verse that says you can be "unborn again"?.........where is the verse that says you can fall "out of Christ"..
NOWHERE<
So, as you mentioned "Satan", id say, your horns are showing....
Let me tell you something, MR Rburger, there is nothing more satanic then trying to convince the saved they can be lost..
Think about it.
That lie is from the pit of hell and its coming right out of your mouth.


You must repent of your sins and if you don't you are one of Satan's.

I"ll repent of wasting precious time answering such a fool as you..........


Look at all the foolish so called pastors that runaround pushing so much rubbish, boasting of the worldly works they do with their money.
Remember that Satan hates mother Mary ? because of her we got Jesus Christ.


What you just said, has what to do with my Thread?????
Perhaps some Xanax would help you?
If not, just read my thread again, and take out a non-catholic bible, and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand what GRACE is all about.
Who knows, maybe you will even get saved.
Anything is possible,, as with God, all things are possible.



K

 

[dragonfly]

Hello Kidron,

I notice you have not answered my question about why Paul kept warning Christians to give up the sins of the flesh, and insisted that the fornicator in 1 Corinthians 5, ought to repent - as well as those who had tolerated him were exhorted to repent for their attitude.

GOD LAYS ALL YOUR SINS ON HIS SON AND DOES NOT HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEM ANYMORE.

This is good the first time you come to Him, but after that you have to repent of each sin individually. Your BIble teaches that in 1 John 2:1.

Your Master Jesus Christ also teaches this - Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Episkopos]

Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

I was looking for those verses earlier.

 

[Kidron]

Hello Kidron,

I notice you have not answered my question about why Paul kept warning Christians to give up the sins of the flesh, and insisted that the fornicator in 1 Corinthians 5, ought to repent - as well as those who had tolerated him were exhorted to repent for their attitude.


Why would't Paul tell you to stop committing works of the flesh after you are saved?\
Remember he is the one who told you to "mortify your members" and "present your bodies a living sacrifice"?
So, here is the confusion................
There is, Salvation,.......and this is God redeeming us, for free, based on the finished work of the cross.
We dont earn this, we dont deserve this, and we cant lose it, because its not based on our DEEDS.....its a FREE GIFT..
Its based on our FAITH... in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

but THEN...

after, after, after, after, AFTER we are SAVED , we are to do the works of a DISCIPLE of CHRIST.....= BECAUSE we are saved..... and not to be saved or to try to stay saved.

See, where Christians get confused is not understanding the difference between FAITH to BECOME SAVED and then works that we do AFTER
we are saved because we are now the DISCIPLES..

Salvation and Discipleship. = 2 different things.

Salvation is what GOD DOES FOR US ON A CROSS = FREE GIFT OF SALVATION, = we cant earn and we cant lose .

Discipleship = we live according to what we understand pleases God, = not to be saved, but because we ARE SAVED.


This is good the first time you come to Him, but after that you have to repent of each sin individually.


The first 10 verses of 1st John are not written to Christians, but are written to unbelieving jews.
John is giving them the Gospel.
Look at verse 3......and you will realize that he is not talking to those already born again, as they would already BE in FELLOWSHIP with John and the rest.
And,...Dfly, you cannot possibly remember all the sins you commit day by day hour by hour and repent of them all.
You are going to miss one at some point, but NO WORRIES, as God has already forgiven you for them all.
(see the CROSS for an update on all your sins being forgiven) ^_^

and one more thing..............u are not repenting to be forgiven again and again a thousand million times after you are saved...
you repent, to restore fellowship, not to be forgiven.
Its like this..
Say you go into your mother's purse and steal $1000 and you get caught....
So, are you no longer your mother's child because you stole the money?
Of course not.............as a matter of fact, no matter what you do wrong, or how many times you do it, you will always be your mother's child...........and why?
BECAUSE OF BIRTH.
And this birth has created you legally to be your mother's family, (NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU SHOOT IN A THEATER.)
And this is because you are BORN to your mother, so..........your deeds cant undo it.
So, why do you tell her you are sorry?.............Its because the fellowship is broken based on your DEED.
But your family status is not AFFECTED by your stealing,..........only the fellowship is affected.........and once you say............."im sorry", everything will be restored reading FELLOWSHIP.

Realize that you did nothing to be born into your family.
Isnt that right?????????
So, its the same with God...........He gives you the new birth........you dont do it..........He does it.
So, when you sin against God..........you have not affected your BIRTH or FAMILY STATUS, you have only affected the fellowship........so you say you are sorry to fix the issue.
See, you are already forgiven, so, if you are trying to repent again and again of every sin to be forgiven again and again, then what is Jesus doing on the Cross only ONCE?
Does he have to die over and over every time you repent?
not quite.
Do you think that sins you commit after you are saved are not paid for 2000 years ago?
If you think this, then you have no idea what has happened to you once you trusted Christ.
Dfly, you dont repent after you are saved to get "forgiven" again and again......as the death of Christ has already been applied to all your sins .
ALL.
You are not saved by grace then kept saved by confession or "living right."
Dfly, the only "Living right" that keeps you saved is the "living right" that Jesus did and then died to offer.
You are saved ONCE and this ONCE covers all your sins., and abolishes the very law that you were under before you were saved.
The law is gone, and your sins are paid for....all of them.
This is the purpose of the Cross and the sacrifice of CHRIST..
This is GRACE.<

If you recall the old testament...........you have a once a year sacrifice by the priest for the people., but this only omitted the sins, it didnt clear them away forever.
But CHRIST's sacrifice is a one time payment for all sins, and once this payment is applied, you are covered until you die and beyond.
God cannot ever again judge you or damn you for sins, as he would an unbeliever, as Jesus has Paid for ALL your sins.
He paid for them all, or there was no need for him to die.
His is a one time sacrifice for the sins of the WORLD, but this payment is only given and applied to those who TAKE IT by faith.
So, when you sin after you are saved, its the same as sinning against your family on earth, in the sense that you dont stop being a family member, you just mess up the fellowship.
So, you say you are sorry.
Its the same with God.
To repent after you are saved, is not to be forgiven of your sin, as you have already been forgiven for them all already.
So, to repent after you are saved is to restore the correct fellowship with him.....and that is all it does.


Your Master Jesus Christ also teaches this - Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Well then i guess God is in danger of "hell fire", as he is the author of the scripture that said... "thou FOOL"......and ...."the fool says in his heart there is no God"

And do you not know that 1st Corinthians 11:31 tells you to judge yourself so you wont be judged
And Hebrews 12:6 says you will be judged/chastened if you are a believer?
So, the thing you have to do, is try to realize that there are lots of "judgments" in the bible, and the NT.
There is the white throne judgement for the UNSAVED.
There is the judgement seat of Christ for YOU and ME.
There is the hand of God rebuking and correcting his born again child, which is "being judged".
So, do not just ram all "judgments" under one context = hell.



K

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

I was looking for those verses earlier.

 

[neophyte]

Yes, you can lose your salvation-

Matt. 7:18 - Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.

Matt. 7:21 - all those who say "Lord, Lord" on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.

Matt. 12:30-32 - Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for "therefore" is "dia toutos" which means "through this") blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus' grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.

Matt. 22:14 - Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God's banquet, but was cast out.

Luke 8:13 - Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as "alive again."

John 6:70-71 - Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don't bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

John 17:12 - we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.
John 6:37 - those who continue to come to Jesus He won't cast out. But it's a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.

John 6:39 - Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.

John 6:40 - everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person "continues" to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.

John 6:44 - Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father "draws" him. This "drawing" is an ongoing process.

John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, "no one shall snatch them out of my hands," He does not mean we can't leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).

Rev. 3:4 - in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.

Rev. 3:5 - Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.

Rev. 3:11 - Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.

Rev. 13:10; 14:12 - we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.

Rev. 21:7 - we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.

Rev. 22:19 - we can have a share in the tree of life in God's holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.

 

[Foreigner]

I agree with you when you say "[font=lucida sans unicode']So lets just keep this simple."[/font]

You "Once Saved, Always Saved" people are in for a rude surprise when you stand face to face with God.

Especially if your declarations on this subject lead to the loss of a soul who based their salvation opinion on your teachings.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

I get the difference you're making about the life of a disciple, but the disconnect with your thesis begins around here:

And,...Dfly, you cannot possibly remember all the sins you commit day by day hour by hour and repent of them all.
You are going to miss one at some point, but NO WORRIES, as God has already forgiven you for them all.

This 'cannot possibly remember all the sins' does not apply to the disciple at all. That's why 1 John 2:1 is relevant.

Only the sinner applying for salvation the first time, brings all his sins in one big bundle. After that, if he's received the Holy Spirit and if he lives and walks in the Spirit, he is not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. He is fulfilling (the) righteousness (of the law). Rom 8:4.

..............u are not repenting to be forgiven again and again a thousand million times after you are saved...

You are absolutely right. I repent to have a change of attitude to that particular one sin and to be forgiven.


And just in passing, I don't agree that John wrote the first few lines of his letter not to the addressee. :huh: No-one does that!
The way you cut pieces of scripture out for the sake of the doctrines you espouse is spiritually unhealthy. Beware! No matter who taught you those ways, you should seek the Lord for yourself until He has shown you how scripture really fits together.

Why would't Paul tell you to stop committing works of the flesh after you are saved?\
Remember he is the one who told you to "mortify your members" and "present your bodies a living sacrifice"?

Kidron, I may have misunderstood some of what you've been writing on this forum, but if you really understand the verses from which you've quoted phrases above, why didn't you pick haz up on the verses which he used in post # 2 in your thread How to understand your sins.... ?
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16159-how-to-understand-your-sinsnow-that-you-are-born-again/page__hl__%20view%20%20your%20%20sins

This is a serious request. Please go back to his post and check every scripture and the logic he's offered, and post a response to it, in that thread. Because you didn't comment on it at all, but went straight to a response to post # 3, I, perhaps wrongly, assumed you'd agreed with post # 2 - which is why I've written some of what I've written to you in various threads. (If I need to apologise, I will.)

However, today, you seem to be acknowledging that a disciple can sin, and, that repentance is called for by scripture, and that forgiveness will be forthcoming. I don't agree (still) that tomorrow's sins have already been forgiven, because they haven't been committed yet. I know why it's tempting to think that way, but scripture doesn't even suggest it once. We'll leave that for now, though.

Over to you and that old thread to check it out, if you wouldn't mind, please?

 

[Axehead]

Just read this thread and really encouraged there are more people that don't see Jesus as our "Heavenly Masseuse".

He does not comfort us in our sin, He admonishes and warns.

Axehead

 

[dragonfly]

Brother, I think you may mean 'Masseur'. The ending with an s is feminine!