Will Christ utter new words in a Premil millennium?

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, either Jesus will or won’t say and do things in a Premil millennium. That means there are only two initial assumptions.

If we assume Jesus will say and do things that are new then by all our current standards that would mean He added to the Canon.

If we assume Jesus will just sit on His throne and not say or do anything at all, then the Canon would not be added to.

It seems very odd that any Premil would even want to admit Jesus is just going to be like a dead person, not saying or doing anything in the millennium, yet that’s how it would have to be for the Canon to remain as it is today. It seems either assumption is troublesome but saying we shouldn’t make assumptions is just a way of trying to get around the problem.

See your problem is found in your words -" by our current standards". that is making another assumption. Jesus said many many6 many things that did not get Canonized.

and once again you are forcing Jesus into two of your assumptios-aka putting Jesus in boxes of your making! Why don't you wait until the millenium to find out exactly what jesus says and do and how the inhabitants of the millennial earth respond and record? That is the biblically smart thing to do and requires making 0 assumptions.

 

[grafted branch]

See your problem is found in your words -" by our current standards". that is making another assumption. Jesus said many many6 many things that did not get Canonized.

and once again you are forcing Jesus into two of your assumptios-aka putting Jesus in boxes of your making! Why don't you wait until the millenium to find out exactly what jesus says and do and how the inhabitants of the millennial earth respond and record? That is the biblically smart thing to do and requires making 0 assumptions.

If we make no assumptions whatsoever then full Preterist is just a likely as Amil or Premil and vice versa. If we can’t make assumptions on whether something is literal or spiritual then both are just as likely.

Aren’t you making assumptions by saying wait for the millennium to find out what Jesus does? For all we know we could be in the millennium right now or we could be in the New Heaven New Earth, we can’t just assume the millennium is future.

 

[Davidpt]

For all we know we could be in the millennium right now

Assuming we are in the millennium right now, what could be some things that would undeniably prove it?

Per Premil, assuming that view is the correct view, it will be obvious when we are in the millennium and know that we are. Per this view the millennium can't even begin until Christ bodily returns first.

 

[grafted branch]

Assuming we are in the millennium right now, what could be some things that would undeniably prove it?

Per Premil, assuming that view is the correct view, it will be obvious when we are in the millennium and know that we are. Per this view the millennium can't even begin until Christ bodily returns first.

You are making an assumption that it will be obvious when someone is in the Premil millennium. We can deceive ourselves so it’s an assumption to say it will be obvious to everyone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are making an assumption that it will be obvious when someone is in the Premil millennium. We can deceive ourselves so it’s an assumption to say it will be obvious to everyone.

Premils believe that Jesus will be on the earth in all His glory during the thousand years, so it would be pretty hard to miss that.

 

[grafted branch]

Premils believe that Jesus will be on the earth in all His glory during the thousand years, so it would be pretty hard to miss that.

I agree but there are currently people who still believe the earth is flat and they give explanations as to why they are correct. Just do a search for flat earth and you’ll see what I’m talking about. It’s entirely possible that during a Premil millennium there could be self deceived people coming up with just as clever explanations as to why Christ isn’t on earth as those explanations for a flat earth.

 

[Davidpt]

You are making an assumption that it will be obvious when someone is in the Premil millennium. We can deceive ourselves so it’s an assumption to say it will be obvious to everyone.

Get real at least. Nobody can mistake the 2nd coming once it happens. No one can have lived through the 2nd coming then be deceived about it after the millennium. As if it is possible to question whether the 2nd coming ever happened after it happened. Per Premil it will be obvious when we are in the millennium. I'm not asking about Premil though, I'm asking about the here and now, assuming it's possible we could be in the millennium as we speak. Ok, what in the real world, meaning pertaining to people globally and reality, could undenibaly prove that we are in the millennium? IOW, I'm looking for evidence that proves we are in the millennium now. Asuming we are in the millennium now, what proves it, what signs are there in the real world that the here and now fits the millennium to a T?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree but there are currently people who still believe the earth is flat and they give explanations as to why they are correct. Just do a search for flat earth and you’ll see what I’m talking about. It’s entirely possible that during a Premil millennium there could be self deceived people coming up with just as clever explanations as to why Christ isn’t on earth as those explanations for a flat earth.

I suppose, but what's the point of even talking about such farfetched ideas that few people believe in? Just a waste of time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Get real at least. Nobody can mistake the 2nd coming once it happens. No one can have lived through the 2nd coming then be deceived about it after the millennium. As if it is possible to question whether the 2nd coming ever happened after it happened. Per Premil it will be obvious when we are in the millennium. I'm not asking about Premil though, I'm asking about the here and now, assuming it's possible we could be in the millennium as we speak. Ok, what in the real world, meaning pertaining to people globally and reality, could undenibaly prove that we are in the millennium? IOW, I'm looking for evidence that proves we are in the millennium now. Asuming we are in the millennium now, what proves it, what signs are there in the real world that the here and now fits the millennium to a T?

I think, as a preterist, his understanding of the thousand years is that it was over by 70 AD, so he's probably not a good person to ask that question.

 

[grafted branch]

Get real at least. Nobody can mistake the 2nd coming once it happens. No one can have lived through the 2nd coming then be deceived about it after the millennium. As if it is possible to question whether the 2nd coming ever happened after it happened. Per Premil it will be obvious when we are in the millennium. I'm not asking about Premil though, I'm asking about the here and now, assuming it's possible we could be in the millennium as we speak. Ok, what in the real world, meaning pertaining to people globally and reality, could undenibaly prove that we are in the millennium? IOW, I'm looking for evidence that proves we are in the millennium now. Asuming we are in the millennium now, what proves it, what signs are there in the real world that the here and now fits the millennium to a T?

Well, @Ronald Nolette is arguing that no assumptions should be made about Jesus in a future millennium. And I was initially responding to that statement. So it follows that no assumptions should be made for the Amil millennium or Preterist millennium either.

As for what proof is there that we are currently in an Amil millennium, I don’t know. I personally think the millennium was the time period between the cross and 70AD and Revelation was written specifically to the Jews of that time.

 

[grafted branch]

I suppose, but what's the point of even talking about such farfetched ideas that few people believe in? Just a waste of time.

I would say it shows the Premil millennium only works with no deception whatsoever. I agree it’s probably futile to get them to admit that but perhaps there are some people reading these posts that might cause them to question the things they’ve been told.

 

[Davidpt]

I would say it shows the Premil millennium only works with no deception whatsoever. I agree it’s probably futile to get them to admit that but perhaps there are some people reading these posts that might cause them to question the things they’ve been told.

What Premil doesn't admit that? What Premil thinks that deception is occurring throughout the millennium? But let's don't conflate the millennium with satan's little season that follows. IOW, to be deceived during satan's little season does not also mean to be deceived during the millennium. Unless one is an Amil, it indeed means that in that case. The reason I know that for a fact, is simple. Allegedly we are in the millennium according to Amil. Obviously, ppl are still being deceived and have continued to be deceived for the past 2000 years. Granted, not everyone has continued to be deceived, but what about the ones that still are deceived? Doesn't the latter then equal deception is rampant throughout Ami's proposed millennium?

Plus, let's not forget, the ones that are no longer deceived are initially deceived prior to being no longer deceived. After all, in the real world one is initially in an unsaved state first, thus are being deceived. Which still equals deception is rampant throughout Amil's proposed millennium. Per Premil no one is being deceived during the millennium, as in zero. No one is being deceived again until after the millennium. Premil does not conflate the millennium with satan's little season. Amil does, technically speaking, the fact ppl are deceived both during and after the millennium.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What Premil doesn't admit that? What Premil thinks that deception is occurring throughout the millennium? But let's don't conflate the millennium with satan's little season that follows. IOW, to be deceived during satan's little season does not also mean to be deceived during the millennium. Unless one is an Amil, it indeed means that in that case. The reason I know that for a fact, is simple. Allegedly we are in the millennium according to Amil. Obviously, ppl are still being deceived and have continued to be deceived for the past 2000 years. Granted, not everyone has continued to be deceived, but what about the ones that still are deceived? Doesn't the latter then equal deception is rampant throughout Ami's proposed millennium?

Plus, let's not forget, the ones that are no longer deceived are initially deceived prior to being no longer deceived. After all, in the real world one is initially in an unsaved state first, thus are being deceived. Which still equals deception is rampant throughout Amil's proposed millennium. Per Premil no one is being deceived during the millennium, as in zero. No one is being deceived again until after the millennium. Premil does not conflate the millennium with satan's little season. Amil does, technically speaking, the fact ppl are deceived both during and after the millennium.

All you do anymore is lie. You misrepresent Amil constantly. Amil does NOT conflate the millennium with Satan's little season, you liar. We have explained many times the difference between our understanding of the thousand years in contrast with Satan's little season and, despite that, you continue to make false accusations like this against Amil.

 

[grafted branch]

What Premil doesn't admit that? What Premil thinks that deception is occurring throughout the millennium?

If the Premil millennium contains absolutely no deception whatsoever, then it doesn’t contain free will either.
If I were in the millennium and I wanted to deceive another person I wouldn’t be able to, because there would be no deception in the millennium, that means I would have limited free will at best.

Currently someone who believes in election might say no one has the free will to choose Christ because we are dead in our sins. In the Premil millennium someone might say no one has the free will to deceive because we are all alive in Christ.

You would have to admit there is deception of some kind in the millennium in order for people to retain free will in the millennium.

 

[Davy]

Jesus made that statement approximately 2,000 years ago. Arguing that currently some things still need to be fulfilled as the reason why He said my words would never passed away, doesn’t make sense.

No, it's your wrong attitude towards the Bible Scriptures that does not make sense. With your kind of attitude, it suggests that you lack Faith, and really do not believe what The Bible teaches.



BRETHREN IN CHRIST:
There are some beth-avens (houses of vanity), that have an EXTREME PRETERIST VIEW, claiming just about ALL... of The Bible has already been fulfilled, EVEN THE EVENT OF CHRIST'S 2ND COMING! (They wrongly believe Jesus' appearing to His Apostles after His resurrection was evidence of His 2nd coming.)

Now anyone who actually BELIEVES their Bible as written well know those types are like one of the problem churches that Lord Jesus rebuked in His 7 Messages to the Churches in Asia per Revelation 2 & 3.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If the Premil millennium contains absolutely no deception whatsoever, then it doesn’t contain free will either.
If I were in the millennium and I wanted to deceive another person I wouldn’t be able to, because there would be no deception in the millennium, that means I would have limited free will at best.

Currently someone who believes in election might say no one has the free will to choose Christ because we are dead in our sins. In the Premil millennium someone might say no one has the free will to deceive because we are all alive in Christ.

You would have to admit there is deception of some kind in the millennium in order for people to retain free will in the millennium.

This is a good point, in my opinion. Even if Satan and his angels weren't around, people are still capable of deceiving others or even themselves. So, the idea of no deception at all on the earth during the supposed future thousand years makes no sense.

 

[Jay Ross]

The Parables of the Talents and the Minas informs us that Satan intends to empower his good and faithful servants with money to trade with to impede the establishment of God's Everlasting Kingdom on the face of the earth during the time of those kings spoken about in Daniel 2.

As for Satan and his Angels, Isaiah 24:21-22 tells us that they will be judged in Heaven and, as Revelation 12 tells us, there will be no place for them in Heaven and they will end up on the face of the earth where they will be gathered together with the judged kings of the earth and imprisoned in a prison, i.e. The Bottomless Pit, for many days, i.e. for 1,000 solar years, to await the time of their punishment.

When God begins gathering the Israelites to Himself, He states that He will enter into a Covenant of Peace with Israel and remove the "wild beasts of the field" from the earth. (Ezekiel 34:25-30.)

This covenant of peace will begin in around 20 years from now when Israel will have completed the fourth age of the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children's children. Paul also tells us, Romans 11:25b-26", that when the fulness with respect to time of the Gentiles trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts as the Little Horns armies, has come to its completion, that all of Israel will be saved.

There are a number of Covenants that God enters into at this time. Ezekiel 34:25-30 is just one of them: -

Ezekiel 34:25-30: - 25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause evil beasts [1] to cease from the earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill [2] a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe within my fertile field; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the earth devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger on the earth, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.'"​

Ezekiel 27:21-28 also speaks of a time when God will make an everlasting covenant of peace with Israel.

I believe that Christ will play an integral part in Israel's redemption. Now whether or not Christ will utter new words during the time of these new covenants being implemented, the Scriptures are silent on this question.

Shalom

---

[1] This is a reference to God’s judgement of the beastly Heavenly Hosts who will be judged during the time that God is turning His attention once more towards the Israelites in our near future, around the year 2044 AD give or take a year or so either way because of the uncertainty in the understanding of the relationship between God’s timeframe and man’s understanding.
Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of God Judging the Heavenly Hosts in Heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth and that they will be gathered together with the kings of the earth and imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.
Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the time of the judgement of the four Beasts, referred to as the four winds of Heaven in Daniel 7:2 that causes a manifestation of the four respective beasts to rise up out of the sea of humanity with the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts.
In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth after the signs performed by the three foul frog like spirits when they went out from the mouth of the Dragon, the False Prophet and the Beast would be to assemble them for battle, on the great day of God the Almighty at Armageddon where they will be judged as Isaiah 24:21-22 prophesied.
Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-26, that when the fullness with respect to time, that has been set for the Gentiles to trample God’s Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, has drawn to its conclusion, after the 2,300-year period, and the subsequent judgement of the kings of the earth, all of Israel will be saved.
Ezekiel 34:28 repeats this same theme, where it points a second time to the beasts being removed from the face of the earth and not troubling Israel for a period of 1,000-years.

[2] God is using a metaphor to reference the Religion that will be establish as an integral part of His Everlasting Kingdom during the time of the kings mentioned in the Statue prophecy in Daniel 2 as He begins gathering Israel to Himself after the completion of the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the nation of Israel are visited upon their children and the children’s children to the end of the fourth age. The basis of this hill/religion with be the foundation stone that will come down out of heaven for the nation of the Israelites is that Jesus/Christ is the Son of God. The stone that comes down out of heaven, we are told in Daniel, will become a great mountain and fill the whole earth (Daniel 2:35)

 

[PinSeeker]

Assuming we are in the millennium right now, what could be some things that would undeniably prove it?

If you, as I am, are a Gentile, David, and a believer in Christ, a Christian, then you yourself along with me and all other Gentile Christians past and present are proof that we are in the millennium right now. That's of course not to exclude Jewish believers/Christians, as we are all in Christ, and thus one in Christ, but they were, of course, never members of any Gentile nation and thus not Gentiles.

My answers to your original post, @grafted branch , are as follows:

"...will there be new chapters or books added to the Bible during the Premil millennium?"

No, there will never be anything added to the Bible (or taken away), as the Word of our God endures forever (Isaiah, Peter), and... well, John is absolutely clear about this in Revelation 22 18-21.​

"Can there be more time added in somewhere after the millennium by Christ uttering new prophecies?"

No, same as above.​

"Or could it be possible that Christ doesn’t speak at all during the millennium?"

Christ speaks through the Scriptures and by the Spirit, Who brings to our remembrance all that He has said (John 14). And the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world." (emphasis mine; Hebrews 1:1-2). So to this question no, also ~ and yet more proof that we are in the millennium ~ these last days ~ now.​

Grace and peace to you both.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If we make no assumptions whatsoever then full Preterist is just a likely as Amil or Premil and vice versa. If we can’t make assumptions on whether something is literal or spiritual then both are just as likely.

Aren’t you making assumptions by saying wait for the millennium to find out what Jesus does? For all we know we could be in the millennium right now or we could be in the New Heaven New Earth, we can’t just assume the millennium is future.

I am making no assumptions. I am merely saying we do not know what Jesus will say and do in the minutae in the millennial kingdom and we do not know if any of it will be recorded and a "millennial testament" will be the 3rd section of the bible.

And we do not make assumptions. We let Scripture speak of itself. Premil is based on a literal look at the bible, pre trib rapture is based on a literal understanding of Scripture. We know the millennial is future based on what Scripture says about teh millennial kingdom.

Assumptions are what cause great heresy like terperism or amillennialism. We are forbidden to make assumptions about Scripture.

2 Peter 1:19-21

King James Version

​

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Assumptions are merely those private interpretations.

I am gone till next Tuesday so will respond then.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, @Ronald Nolette is arguing that no assumptions should be made about Jesus in a future millennium. And I was initially responding to that statement. So it follows that no assumptions should be made for the Amil millennium or Preterist millennium either.

As for what proof is there that we are currently in an Amil millennium, I don’t know. I personally think the millennium was the time period between the cross and 70AD and Revelation was written specifically to the Jews of that time.

Following your logic we should also make no assumptions when the JW's say Jesus is Michael the Archangel, or any thing Scripture clearly says that those who oppose gods Word assume.

If you wish to make assumptions- you need to support them with Scripture, nor with your opinions or feelings.