Will The New Heaven And Earth Be A (Renewal-Regeneration) Of This Earth, Or Will It Be A Completely (New Creation)?

[TribulationSigns]

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. I mean, there's still a lot of sea just no bad sea. The good sea still exists. That's what I meant to say."

Give me scripture where God define sea to represent his chosen elect of all time?

 

[ewq1938]

Give me scripture where God define sea to represent his chosen elect of all time?

Isn't it more important that when the bible says "no more sea" that it means there is more sea?

 

[Zao is life]

Reformed Theology falsely teaches this existing earth will be (Renewed-Regenerated) a false teaching

This earth will be dissolved by the Lord's fire down to its very elements, it will be a completely (New Creation) as God's word clearly teaches below

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

(I Create) not (I Renew/Regenerate)

The very same Hebrew word used (Bara) in Isaiah 65:17 (Create) is seen used in Genesis 1:1 (Created) below

(Strongs, Absolutely To Create)

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Genesis 1:1KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

---

KJV Translation Count — Total: 54x
The KJV translates Strong's H1254 in the following manner: create (42x), creator (3x), choose (2x), make (2x), cut down (2x), dispatch (1x), done (1x), make fat (1x).

The new heavens and earth the will replace the existing order is not a new creation. The new creation came when Christ rose from the dead.

-- If any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. -- 2 Corinthians 5:17

2 Peter 3:10
-- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. -- 2 Peter 3:10.

1. stoicheîon refers to the rudiments of the world;

2. lýō refers to something that was bound, being loosed;

3. érgon in the above verse refers to the works of men or of Satan, or both.

érgon never refers to anything except the works of God, or the works of Satan, or the works of men.

The full list of verses is here:

2 Peter 3:10

MAKING ALL THINGS NEW Strongs Greek 02537 καινός kainós of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness). Strongs Greek 00342 ἀνακαίνωσι...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

 

[Truth7t7]

The new heavens and earth the will replace the existing order is not a new creation. The new creation came when Christ rose from the dead.

-- If any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. -- 2 Corinthians 5:17

2 Peter 3:10
-- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. -- 2 Peter 3:10.

1. stoicheîon refers to the rudiments of the world;

2. lýō refers to something that was bound, being loosed;

3. érgon in the above verse refers to the works of men or of Satan, or both.

érgon never refers to anything except the works of God, or the works of Satan, or the works of men.

The full list of verses is here:

2 Peter 3:10

MAKING ALL THINGS NEW Strongs Greek 02537 καινός kainós of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness). Strongs Greek 00342 ἀνακαίνωσι...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

(I Create) Isaiah 65:17

The very same Hebrew word used (Bara) in Isaiah 65:17 (Create) is seen used in Genesis 1:1 (Created) below, do you deny God created in Genesis 1:1?

(Strongs, Absolutely To Create)

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Genesis 1:1KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

---

KJV Translation Count — Total: 54x
The KJV translates Strong's H1254 in the following manner: create (42x), creator (3x), choose (2x), make (2x), cut down (2x), dispatch (1x), done (1x), make fat (1x).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Looking forward unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

When considering your question …the body that now is …will it be renewed … “behold I create new” …the answer to me is in:
1 Corinthians 15:35-47 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" [36] You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. [37] And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. [38] But God gives (be you clothed in the New Man) it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. [39] For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. [40] There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. [41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. [42] So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. [43] It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.(we look for new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness) [45] Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [46] But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. [47] The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.



we speak of elements …what are elements? Galatians 4:9 But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

(Imo) all of the verses quoted speak of the New Creature created in Christ. This new heaven and earth “wherein dwells righteousness” is “a New Creature” where old things have passed away and “behold I make all things New.”

 

[Truth7t7]

Looking forward unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

When considering your question …the body that now is …will it be renewed … “behold I create new” …the answer to me is in:
1 Corinthians 15:35-47 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" [36] You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. [37] And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. [38] But God gives (be you clothed in the New Man) it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. [39] For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. [40] There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. [41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. [42] So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. [43] It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.(we look for new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness) [45] Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [46] But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. [47] The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.



we speak of elements …what are elements? Galatians 4:9 But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?



(Imo) all of the verses quoted speak of the New Creature created in Christ. This new heaven and earth “wherein dwells righteousness” is “a New Creature” where old things have passed away and “behold I make all things New.”

(I Create) Isaiah 65:17

The very same Hebrew word used (Bara) in Isaiah 65:17 (Create) is seen used in Genesis 1:1 (Created) below, do you deny God created in Genesis 1:1?

(Strongs, Absolutely To Create)

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Genesis 1:1KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

---

KJV Translation Count — Total: 54x
The KJV translates Strong's H1254 in the following manner: create (42x), creator (3x), choose (2x), make (2x), cut down (2x), dispatch (1x), done (1x), make fat (1x).

 

[Zao is life]

(I Create) Isaiah 65:17

The very same Hebrew word used (Bara) in Isaiah 65:17 (Create) is seen used in Genesis 1:1 (Created) below, do you deny God created in Genesis 1:1?

(Strongs, Absolutely To Create)

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Genesis 1:1KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

---

KJV Translation Count — Total: 54x
The KJV translates Strong's H1254 in the following manner: create (42x), creator (3x), choose (2x), make (2x), cut down (2x), dispatch (1x), done (1x), make fat (1x).

The very same Hebrew word [bârâ'] is used in Numbers 16:30 too. Is it referring to a completely new creation there too?

Numbers 16
28 And Moses said, By this you shall know that the LORD has sent me to do all these works, and that not from my own heart.
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they are visited according to the examination of all men, the LORD has not sent me.
30 But if the LORD makes a new thing [bârâ'], and the earth opens her mouth and swallows them up with all that they have, and they go down alive into the pit, then you shall understand that these men have provoked the LORD.
31 And it happened, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, the ground under them split apart.
32 And the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who were for Korah, and all their goods.

Is Num.16:30 a completely new creation too?

The new creation came when Jesus rose from the dead. And He was not a new creation but His dead body was quickened by the Holy Spirit and He rose again from the dead.

The creation itself has been subject to bondage to decay until the present bodies of all the sons of God have been raised from the dead a new spiritual body, which will take place through Christ's resurrection (Romans 8:19-23).

 

[Truth7t7]

Looking forward unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

When considering your question …the body that now is …will it be renewed … “behold I create new” …the answer to me is in:
1 Corinthians 15:35-47 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" [36] You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. [37] And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. [38] But God gives (be you clothed in the New Man) it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. [39] For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. [40] There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. [41] There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. [42] So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. [43] It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. [44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.(we look for new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness) [45] Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [46] But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. [47] The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.



we speak of elements …what are elements? Galatians 4:9 But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?



(Imo) all of the verses quoted speak of the New Creature created in Christ. This new heaven and earth “wherein dwells righteousness” is “a New Creature” where old things have passed away and “behold I make all things New.”

You claim Jesus is the new creation in regards to the New Heaven and Earth, I strongly disagree, you have pulled scripture way out of context

Question: Do you believe their will be a future "New Jerusalem" as described below, if yes will it be a "New Creation"?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You claim Jesus is the new creation in regards to the New Heaven and Earth, I strongly disagree, you have pulled scripture way out of context

Does righteous dwell within the New creature created in Christ?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Isn't it more important that when the bible says "no more sea" that it means there is more sea?

LOL. Guess you can't provide Scripture like I asked.

 

[Truth7t7]

Does righteous dwell within the New creature created in Christ?

Has nothing to do with Isaiah 65:17 and the word (Create)

 

[Retrobyter]

You deny the truth of God's words below, (Create)

(I Create) not (I Renew/Regenerate)

The very same Hebrew word used (Bara) in Isaiah 65:17 (Create) is seen used in Genesis 1:1 (Created) below

(Strongs, Absolutely To Create)

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Genesis 1:1KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Strong’s Definitions
בָּרָא bârâʼ, baw-raw'; a primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes):—choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

---

KJV Translation Count — Total: 54x
The KJV translates Strong's H1254 in the following manner: create (42x), creator (3x), choose (2x), make (2x), cut down (2x), dispatch (1x), done (1x), make fat (1x).

Shalom, Truth7t7.

And, you forget that not everything should be taken universally or even globally. Yes, the word is "create" (Hebrew: bowree' meaning "I create"), but that doesn't necessarily apply to the whole planet! Instead, the word translated as "earth" (Hebrew: 'erets in vaa'aarets. meaning "and-the-earth") means the LAND. It can, by extension, mean "a field" or "the soil of that land" or "the dirt" of an area. Without the context and/or the word "kol" meaning "all," it may be talking SPECIFICALLY about a CERTAIN "land." Don't assume that everything you read is about the WHOLE earth and certainly NOT the WHOLE universe!

The word translated "heaven" (or "heavens") is the dual word "שָׁמַיִם shaamayim" in Hebrew, both here in Isaiah 65:17 and in Genesis 1:8. It is a dual word meaning "skies," and it is dual because there are two skies: the nighttime sky and the daytime sky. Often, the definite article prefix is added, making it "הַשָּׁמַיִם hashaamayim," as in Genesis 1:1, translated as "the heaven" (or "the heavens" in some versions), and it means "the skies" (two of them). It does NOT refer to the "whole universe," as I've heard some claim.

 

[Retrobyter]

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. I mean, there's still a lot of sea just no bad sea. The good sea still exists. That's what I meant to say."

Shalom, ewq1938.

Here's the verse in Greek (according to Blue Letter Bible):

Ἀποκάλυψις 21:1 (Textus Receptus)

1 Καὶ εἶδον οὐρανὸν καινὸν καὶ γῆν καινήν ὁ γὰρ πρῶτος οὐρανὸς καὶ ἡ πρώτη γῆ παρῆλθεν καὶ ἡ θάλασσα οὐκ ἔστιν ἔτι

This transliterates to ...

Apokalupsis 21:1

1 Kai eidon ouranon kainon kai geen kaineen ho gar prootos ouranos kai hee prootee gee pareelthen kai hee thalassa ouk estin eti

This further translates word-for-word to ...

Revelation (or Uncovering)

1 And/Also I-saw a-sky new and an-earth new the for first sky and the first earth had-passed-by and the sea not was anymore

Some believe that this "sea" was that which separated Yochanan ("John") from those to whom he was writing, the North Aegean Sea, part of the Mediterranean Sea between Greece and Asia Minor, where the Isle of Patmos is located, and where Rome would send prisoners seen as a magical threat to the Rome Empire. It is reported that Yochanan was boiled in oil for execution, and it did no damage to him. That miracle and the writing of the Book of Revelation under Divine influence, made him appear "magical" to Rome.

When the New Jerusalem (which is what my icon represents) lands upon the RENEWED earth (nothing demands that the earth be totally destroyed and many Scriptures demand that it will survive indefinitely), it will be SO large that it extends out over 1/3 of the Mediterranean Sea, if the New Jerusalem is centered at the coordinates of the old Jerusalem! It will not only cover that much area, but its weight will push the earth up and drain most of the rest of the Mediterranean Sea out into the Atlantic Ocean.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Has nothing to do with Isaiah 65:17 and the word (Create)

I mostly was responding to the post you had posted to me. But in my opinion …does righteousness dwell within the new creature created in Christ? Has a lot to do with Isaiah 65:17. Not only does ‘if any be in Christ he is a new creature’ have to do with Isaiah 65:17 “I will forgive their sins”, … ‘For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.’ Is the heartbeat of Isaiah 65:17. Front and center (Imo).

To me too much supports the new creature created in Christ has everything to do with the passages you quoted in your previous post. Isaiah 65:17 speaks of ‘for behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind’

…the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind? 2 Corinthians 5:15-21 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

But it doesn’t end there but goes on to speak of: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. <how does that NOT have anything to do with “we look for new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness?” God’s habitation to me speaks of “wherein dwells righteousness” the righteousness of Christ. Does righteousness dwell in “if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature”? Having passed from death unto Life, having passed from darkness unto Light?

the critical point(Imo) is He has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin…that we might be made (wherein dwells) the righteousness of God”? (We have this treasure in earthen vessels that the power be given of God and not man)

Another that to me supports that it’s not plucking verses out that do not apply is:‘wherein dwells righteousness’ ‘old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new’ —has everything to do with the new creature created in Christ— is: Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. (Is this ‘in whom you also are built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit’ …connected to ‘wherein dwells the righteousness which is by and through Christ’?

This is why I suggested the elements being burned up with a fervent heat is connected to …how then do you wish to return again to (bondage of) the beggarly elements? Galatians 4:9 But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? 2 Peter 3:10-14 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.(He tells us about what is being built up in Christ, to be careful what foundation you build upon because no other foundation can be laid other than Christ. In that passage of certain works are burned up, it is speaking of within the body. It’s focal point is not works man built such as buildings or structures on a literal dirt earth… never have I heard anyone go to the passages of what is burned up as literal building and structures but Paul did speak on all that he counted as loss and counted it as dung. Not worth mentioning…Paul listing his accomplishments and how he was this and that and had more to boast of in the flesh but how all those things were burned up with fervent heat and Paul counted “those elements” not as loss but “bondage” hoping instead to gain Christ which is Liberty out of bondage and death.


Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, (we know if our house is destroyed-dissolved) what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?(why do you then want to turn back to the beggarly elements, and bondage again?) [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness. (We know if this house is destroyed we have a house prepared of God, which house He tells us He is raising up —what stop, wait a minute…does “we know if this house is destroy(dissolved)we have a House which is (prepared) and comes down from God? Does the House come down or is God’s House raised up? It has to come down before it can be raised up? …He who ascended —first descended (lowered) and was raised(lifted up) and is with God.

14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that you may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. Philippians 3:8-11 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ [9] and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,(to me that is the elements burned with fervent heat, my own righteousness which comes by the law..the wood, the hay, the stubble)…the just shall live by Faith ..in that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-(if any be in Christ, he is a new creature) [10] that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [11] that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
^all point, in my opinion, to > ‘if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature’ ‘old things have passed away, behold, all things are made new’ … ‘I will do a new thing in the earth’

I get that is too much but I’m genuinely trying to share with you why I see it differently when you said “You claim Jesus is the new creation in regards to the New Heaven and Earth, I strongly disagree, you have pulled scripture way out of context”…I get you’ll disagree. But I also wanted to take some time this morning to explore if you had a valid point in suggesting I pulled scripture out of context.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. I mean, there's still a lot of sea just no bad sea. The good sea still exists. That's what I meant to say."

There was no more sea…is a good thing to me. A wonderful thing for there to be no more sea in the new creation …no being tossed about like a wave of the sea, no more being blown and tossed and driven by every wind of doctrine. No more ragging sea …no more men drowning in prediction. Think of Peter stepping out on the waters and beginning to sink…if there is no more sea then the sinking beneath the waters has been done away with. Death is overcome. That there is no more sea is hopeful. To me this comes after all the doctrines of devils are done away with. All the tossed about by every wind of doctrine is no more ..no more false doctrines to warn be careful you be not swept (carried) away of them, no more Galatians 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.…in ‘there was no more sea in the new heaven and new earth.’ No more sea=Death has been overcome.

 

[Timtofly]

When the New Jerusalem (which is what my icon represents) lands upon the RENEWED earth (nothing demands that the earth be totally destroyed and many Scriptures demand that it will survive indefinitely), it will be SO large that it extends out over 1/3 of the Mediterranean Sea, if the New Jerusalem is centered at the coordinates of the old Jerusalem! It will not only cover that much area, but its weight will push the earth up and drain most of the rest of the Mediterranean Sea out into the Atlantic Ocean.

I agree somewhat, but not quite. At least you cleared up your avatar.

"And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."

Why do you have a pyramid when Scripture states 4 square? Sure a pyramid has a square base but it is not 4 square. There are 3 gates on each side, and a gate is normally square or rectangle. It would be impossible for a pyramid to have 12 rectangle gates, especially with all sides being the same measurement.

Granted, that John did not say the top was the same size, but that is what 4 square would be assuming. Gates are normally up and down on a wall.

Also I don't see God saying the city changes the structure of the earth, nor pushes anything, anywhere. For one thing, we are not even talking about the same earth nor an earth that may even need any oceans.

But, sure, if you want to compare it to what we know, the New Jerusalem will take up a lot of real estate.

But even looking back into Genesis, it would seem most of the oceans we have today came from water that was above the firmament. And there was a lot more dry land prior to the Flood. Do we need all that water today, and would the earth need all this water in the next creation?

From human standards the oldest separation of land is the Mediterranean. So the original Garden of Eden did extend out into what the Mediterranean Sea now covers, prior to the Flood, and no one living on earth was even allowed into the Garden of Eden. For all we know it could have covered the same real estate you figure the New Jerusalem will. Obviously there was no Sea then either, technically speaking. People would be all over an unsplit continent, on all sides of the Garden of Eden. Especially if the Garden of Eden was the center of that single continent. Also to point out this center used to be closer to or the north pole area. After the Flood the whole area moved to allow for seasons and a literal freezing zone of the north pole itself. There would have not been the north sea either.

Personally I think the NHNE will be extremely larger than current earth and heaven, and the city will actually seem small in comparison. It would look like just another natural city, among many. But who knows?

 

[Truth7t7]

I mostly was responding to the post you had posted to me. But in my opinion …does righteousness dwell within the new creature created in Christ? Has a lot to do with Isaiah 65:17. Not only does ‘if any be in Christ he is a new creature’ have to do with Isaiah 65:17 “I will forgive their sins”, … ‘For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.’ Is the heartbeat of Isaiah 65:17. Front and center (Imo).

To me too much supports the new creature created in Christ has everything to do with the passages you quoted in your previous post. Isaiah 65:17 speaks of ‘for behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind’

…the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind? 2 Corinthians 5:15-21 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. [16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

But it doesn’t end there but goes on to speak of: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. <how does that NOT have anything to do with “we look for new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness?” God’s habitation to me speaks of “wherein dwells righteousness” the righteousness of Christ. Does righteousness dwell in “if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature”? Having passed from death unto Life, having passed from darkness unto Light?

the critical point(Imo) is He has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin…that we might be made (wherein dwells) the righteousness of God”? (We have this treasure in earthen vessels that the power be given of God and not man)

Another that to me supports that it’s not plucking verses out that do not apply is:‘wherein dwells righteousness’ ‘old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new’ —has everything to do with the new creature created in Christ— is: Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. (Is this ‘in whom you also are built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit’ …connected to ‘wherein dwells the righteousness which is by and through Christ’?

This is why I suggested the elements being burned up with a fervent heat is connected to …how then do you wish to return again to (bondage of) the beggarly elements? Galatians 4:9 But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? 2 Peter 3:10-14 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.(He tells us about what is being built up in Christ, to be careful what foundation you build upon because no other foundation can be laid other than Christ. In that passage of certain works are burned up, it is speaking of within the body. It’s focal point is not works man built such as buildings or structures on a literal dirt earth… never have I heard anyone go to the passages of what is burned up as literal building and structures but Paul did speak on all that he counted as loss and counted it as dung. Not worth mentioning…Paul listing his accomplishments and how he was this and that and had more to boast of in the flesh but how all those things were burned up with fervent heat and Paul counted “those elements” not as loss but “bondage” hoping instead to gain Christ which is Liberty out of bondage and death.


Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, (we know if our house is destroyed-dissolved) what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?(why do you then want to turn back to the beggarly elements, and bondage again?) [13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness. (We know if this house is destroyed we have a house prepared of God, which house He tells us He is raising up —what stop, wait a minute…does “we know if this house is destroy(dissolved)we have a House which is (prepared) and comes down from God? Does the House come down or is God’s House raised up? It has to come down before it can be raised up? …He who ascended —first descended (lowered) and was raised(lifted up) and is with God.

14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that you look for such things, be diligent that you may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. Philippians 3:8-11 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ [9] and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,(to me that is the elements burned with fervent heat, my own righteousness which comes by the law..the wood, the hay, the stubble)…the just shall live by Faith ..in that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-(if any be in Christ, he is a new creature) [10] that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, [11] that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
^all point, in my opinion, to > ‘if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature’ ‘old things have passed away, behold, all things are made new’ … ‘I will do a new thing in the earth’

I get that is too much but I’m genuinely trying to share with you why I see it differently when you said “You claim Jesus is the new creation in regards to the New Heaven and Earth, I strongly disagree, you have pulled scripture way out of context”…I get you’ll disagree. But I also wanted to take some time this morning to explore if you had a valid point in suggesting I pulled scripture out of context.

Once again, Isaiah 65:17 (Create) has absolutely nothing to do with the saved being new creations in christ. You are trying to take a future literal event and remove it through symbolism and allegory "Wrong"

 

[ewq1938]

There was no more sea…is a good thing to me. A wonderful thing for there to be no more sea in the new creation …no being tossed about like a wave of the sea, no more being blown and tossed and driven by every wind of doctrine. No more ragging sea …no more men drowning in prediction. Think of Peter stepping out on the waters and beginning to sink…if there is no more sea then the sinking beneath the waters has been done away with.

Everyone will be immortal so this wouldn't be an issue even if there were still seas.

No more sea=Death has been overcome.

No, it already states death doesn't exist so it is not related to there being no more sea. Also, for the saved immortality came in Rev 20, while the sea still existed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Once again, Isaiah 65:17 (Create) has absolutely nothing to do with the saved being new creations in christ. You are trying to take a future literal event and remove it through symbolism and allegory "Wrong"

I’m not trying to take a future literal event and remove it through symbolism and allegory. You have said you disagree. And if I understood correctly you gave the reason why you disagree. 1) I took it out of context 2) I am trying to remove or take away a future literal event through symbolism and allegory.

I was also sharing with you what my take away is from the passages. What they mean to me at the moment. That is all.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Everyone will be immortal so this wouldn't be an issue even if there were still seas.





No, it already states death doesn't exist so it is not related to there being no more sea. Also, for the saved immortality came in Rev 20, while the sea still existed.

One thing is evident. We all have our opinions. And nobody else gets one. As much as others are quick to say “nope. It’s like this! Not like that!” I also am guilty of it. Meaning as strongly as you have an opinion on “no more sea” …countless people have another opinion. Explain that?