Will The New Heaven And Earth Have The Lake Of Fire Present?

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree, I was focused on mercy concerning my response

Yes God is a God of mercy, and a God of judgement

However you dont believe God is severe as you claim, as you deny Gods eternal judgment of the wicked in the lake of fire, it appears that you see only mercy in your belief, smiles!

I do believe Gods judgement of the wicked. I believe some will be thrown into the lake of fire and when they are raised to life again and their judgement is pronounced there will be weeping and wailing. I just don’t believe they are tortured forever because I don’t believe they have eternal life. I believe they experience a second death since they do not have eternal life in them.

 

[Truth7t7]

I do believe Gods judgement of the wicked. I believe some will be thrown into the lake of fire and when they are raised to life again and their judgement is pronounced there will be weeping and wailing. I just don’t believe they are tortured forever because I don’t believe they have eternal life. I believe they experience a second death since they do not have eternal life in them.

Your belief is clearly explained, and it has been taught decades before you were born

You believe the wicked souls will be destroyed in the lake of fire, they will weep and wail for 1 second and then cease to exist, 7th day Adventist (Annihilation)

You believe the wicked souls upon death will be unaware until the resurrection, 7th day Adventist (Soul Sleep)

The above 7th day Adventist doctrines are false, and found no place in scripture

The wicked soul will be immediately tormented in hell upon death, and will be cast into the lake of fire at the final judgement, in conscious eternal torment

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You keep saying things are found nowhere in scripture that are found there (even though you may disagree with interpretation) and it’s perplexing. And where did the 1 second come from…? I have no idea how long annihilation would take but I do know it will be more tolerable for sodom on that day than for some others and that some will receive more stripes and some less.

 

[Truth7t7]

You keep saying things are found nowhere in scripture that are found there (even though you may disagree with interpretation) and it’s perplexing. And where did the 1 second come from…? I have no idea how long annihilation would take but I do know it will be more tolerable for sodom on that day than for some others and that some will receive more stripes and some less.

No such thing as (Annihilation) of the wicked soul found in scripture, as you and 7th day Adventism claims, the wicked souls will suffer eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire as scripture clearly teaches

The Wicked Will Suffer Conscious Eternal Torment After Death As Seen Below

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Truth7t7]

You keep saying things are found nowhere in scripture that are found there (even though you may disagree with interpretation) and it’s perplexing. And where did the 1 second come from…? I have no idea how long annihilation would take but I do know it will be more tolerable for sodom on that day than for some others and that some will receive more stripes and some less.

Do you believe Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh?

John 1:1KJV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Do you believe in the Godhead as seen below, three persons that are fully God, yet the three being one Godhead, some use the word Trinity?

1 John 5:7KJV
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you believe Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh?

John 1:1KJV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Do you believe in the Godhead as seen below, three persons of that are fully God, yet the three being one Godhead, some use the word Trinity?

1 John 5:7KJV
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I absolutely believe Jesus is God who appeared in flesh.
I do have to say I can’t see a trinity because I know God is Spirit and I think this is the Holy Spirit. I do not think God is one Spirit and the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No such thing as (Annihilation) of the wicked soul found in scripture

Then you will have to explain how the wicked have eternal life when the only way to eternal life for a man is to be given the Holy Spirit in the new birth.

 

[Truth7t7]

I absolutely believe Jesus is God who appeared in flesh.
I do have to say I can’t see a trinity because I know God is Spirit and I think this is the Holy Spirit. I do not think God is one Spirit and the Holy Spirit is a different Spirit.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is "Eternal" and was in the beginning, the creator of all things?

 

[Truth7t7]

Then you will have to explain how the wicked have eternal life when the only way to eternal life for a man is to be given the Holy Spirit in the new birth.

The horse is dead on your belief regarding (Annihilation) & (Soul Sleep) we disagree, and you have fully explained your belief, thanks!

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The horse is dead on your belief regarding (Annihilation) & (Soul Sleep) we disagree, and you have fully explained your belief, thanks!

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Hah! I think the horse is dead on your claim that all men have eternal life, even those not born again!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you believe Jesus Christ is "Eternal" and was in the beginning, the creator of all things?

Lol. Is that question necessary, since I just said I believe He is God? God is eternal. If Jesus is God, He is eternal. And yes, all things were created through Him and there is not a single thing seen that was not created by Him. He came into the very world He created and walked in the flesh, God with us.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[ewq1938]

Ah, here’s one of those odd but numerous places where prophecy jumps forward or backward in time at 65:20. I do not believe that verse is new heavens and earth because death is not yet completely done away with, although it sounds greatly improved.

It's definitely not the same New Heaven and new Earth as found in Revelation 21.

 

[Truth7t7]

It's definitely not the same New Heaven and new Earth as found in Revelation 21.

Of course Isaiah 65:17-20 & Revelation 21:1-5 are parallel teachings of the very same place

Isaiah 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[ewq1938]

Of course Isaiah 65:17-20 & Revelation 21:1-5 are parallel teachings of the very same place

In one people are dying, in the other death doesn't exist. Sure, that totally is the very same thing!

 

[GISMYS_7]

I can’t make it fit. I do not think humans are born with eternal life in them. I think the only way to eternal life for humans is being born again from above with the Holy Spirit.
And if you read carefully, it is the smoke from their torment that burns forever. It doesn’t necessarily mean their torment is forever. In fact, it says that for humans it’s the second death, not eternal life.

Separation from God is the second death.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Eternal death, or the second death, is the ultimate form of separation. If a person dies in a state of spiritual death, they enter eternity separated from God. This is the second death. Once a person has experienced the "second death" there is no hope for them, it is irreversible. Physical death is the separation of the body from the spirit.

 

[ewq1938]

Separation from God is the second death.

People are already separated from God. The second death is when you physically die again except your soul and spirit are also dead then all of that dead person is burned into nothingness.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I believe the lake of fire will always exist, should we choose to return to our sin.

I think no one who loves sin will enter God's kingdom. The Lake of Fire is OUR EARTH, that's why Peter describes it as burning via all of the elements on fire, its not at the Second Coming, but when Satan is loosed for a little season, then deceives the nations, and then God sets this whole earth on fire, "He makes fire come down from above" on the wicked.

Rev. 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Then we see the New Heaven and New Earth in Rev. 21, so it all fits together IMHO. This earth has been won by Satan, in a sorta joke on him, Satan wins his prized possession. This earth will be set ablaze, and is going to be Hell, or where the Presence of God does not exist. NOTICE:

Rev. 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

I have always stated God does not condemn us to hell, he gave us a free will to chose our own hearts desire, so if we go to hell we chose to follow Satan and to love Evil, over God. Thus Hell is just us living outside the presence of God Almighty.

Now looking at the above, it hit me, the THEM is the old Earth and Heaven, God will no longer abide in them, we will gain a New Heaven and New Earth, but this former Universe/Earth will be set ablaze. Sin and evil will thus be contained in this old universe for evermore.

 

[Mark51]

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem?

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

The meaning of the expression “new heavens and a new earth” is found at Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 and quoted by the apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13. Observing such relationship, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891, Vol. IV, p. 122) comments: “In Isa. lxv, 17, a new heaven and a new earth signify a new government, new kingdom, new people.”


In the Bible, “earth” does not always refer to our globe. For instance, Psalm 96:1 says literally: “Sing to Jehovah, all the earth.” We know that our planet-the terra firma and the vast oceans-cannot sing. People sing. Yes, Psalm 96:1 is referring to the people on the earth. If “heavens” can symbolize the superior ruling power or government so, to “earth.” represents a new society of people.