Will The New Heaven And Earth Have The Lake Of Fire Present?

[Truth7t7]

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem?

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Bob Estey]

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem?

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I believe the lake of fire will always exist, should we choose to return to our sin.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem?

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

The passage seems to me to suggest that this will be during the millennium. The moon still exists (and presumably the sun as well.)

Im not at all certain that the first verse means this is the new heaven and earth yet in the next verses. One could possibly assume this is pre Armageddon and that the fire talked about will no longer be after the thousand years…

I guess it’s the moon and “all flesh” that make me not be able to connect them.

 

[Mugre Pinzon]

Rev 20:10 indicates that the Lake of Fire is forever (neverending).

 

[Truth7t7]

The passage seems to me to suggest that this will be during the millennium. The moon still exists (and presumably the sun as well.)

Im not at all certain that the first verse means this is the new heaven and earth yet in the next verses. One could possibly assume this is pre Armageddon and that the fire talked about will no longer be after the thousand years…

I guess it’s the moon and “all flesh” that make me not be able to connect them.

Thanks for the response!

I see it that the Lord mentions the new heaven and earth in verse 22, then explains what's within this in verses 23/24

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Rev 20:10 indicates that the Lake of Fire is forever (neverending).

Rev 20:10 indicates that the Lake of Fire is forever (neverending).

If you read it carefully, it does appear to say that beast, false prophet and satan will be tormented there forever, day and night. But day and night will one day cease, so that’s an oddity.
Additionally, it does not say humans will be tormented there forever, which makes sense because humans are not born with eternal life in them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you read it carefully, it does appear to say that beast, false prophet and satan will be tormented there forever, day and night. But day and night will one day cease, so that’s an oddity.
Additionally, it does not say humans will be tormented there forever, which makes sense because humans are not born with eternal life in them.

Hey, SBG.

Technically, it says the earth will no longer need the light of the sun, for the glory of God will become our light. But the reference in Isaiah says that "no longer will the brightness of the moon shine on your night," so it seems there may still be what is referred to as "nights" on the earth, but that neither the sun nor moon will anymore be necessary for light.

5 There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 22:5)

19 No longer will the sun be your light by day, nor the brightness of the moon shine on your night; for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your splendor. (Isaiah 60:19)

I do, however, agree that the torment of the wicked could actually be temporal. I used to balk at the notion, but the words translated "forever" into English literally mean, "unto the [end of the] age," and there are a few references in scripture where this phrase doesn't appear to mean "forever" like we understand the word, as in "perpetually." One is where it is said of Jesus that His kingdom shall be "forever" (Luke 1:33, Hebrews 1:8, Psalm 110:6-7) and yet in another place it says that eventually the Son will hand over rule to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24). So the suggestion seems to be that "unto the end of the age" simply refers to "until a new age dawns," though what age that would be is a curious question. It likely refers to after the millennium, but if so that would require a particular interpretation of Isaiah 66, where verse 22 only applies to Israel's seed remaining forever, but does not apply to the sabbaths and new moons and the Lake of Fire existing forever as referred to in verses 23-24:

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

This interpretation might make sense, because as pointed out, Isaiah 60:19 states that they will need no more moon when the eternal kingdom comes. How can they have new moons to observe when there will be no more moon? The only answer would be if the sun and moon still exist but are no longer necessary for light. But the case for "unto the age" always literally meaning "forever" like we understand the term is somewhat in doubt, given the way the term is sometimes used.

God bless,
- H

 

[Truth7t7]

Additionally, it does not say humans will be tormented there forever, which makes sense because humans are not born with eternal life in them.

I disagree, scripture below clearly teaches that those "Humans" who receive the mark or worship the image, they will be tormented eternally

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I disagree, scripture below clearly teaches that those "Humans" who receive the mark or worship the image, they will be tormented eternally

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

I can’t make it fit. I do not think humans are born with eternal life in them. I think the only way to eternal life for humans is being born again from above with the Holy Spirit.
And if you read carefully, it is the smoke from their torment that burns forever. It doesn’t necessarily mean their torment is forever. In fact, it says that for humans it’s the second death, not eternal life.

 

[Abigail]

I don't understand. Why would there need be a lake of fire if the new heaven and earth are new? When the old earth was where people sinned and risked entering the lake of fire.

 

[farouk]

I don't understand. Why would there need be a lake of fire if the new heaven and earth are new? When the old earth was where people sinned and risked entering the lake of fire.

It's linked with not being in the Lamb's book of life (Revelation 20.15).

 

[Abigail]

It's linked with not being in the Lamb's book of life (Revelation 20.15).

OK. But after all the judgment happens for those in or not in that book isn't that when the newness appears? And the old goes away ? Like those judged and in the lake of fire. Those judged and rewarded with entry into the kingdom.

 

[farouk]

OK. But after all the judgment happens for those in or not in that book isn't that when the newness appears? And the old goes away ? Like those judged and in the lake of fire. Those judged and rewarded with entry into the kingdom.

Well, in Scripture there is both the great while throne Revelation 20.11) and the judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5.9), for believers. Two different events.

 

[Enoch111]

It Appears The Lake of fire is in the New Heaven and Earth, outside the gates of New Jerusalem?

It only appears that way. Common sense and Bible knowledge would indicate that the Lake of Fire is in "outer darkness" (outside "space" -- the second heaven -- which is finite). Had you just taken a moment to reflect on the fact that a "New Earth" means total absence of everything that pollutes and defiles, you would not even be asking this question.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't understand. Why would there need be a lake of fire if the new heaven and earth are new? When the old earth was where people sinned and risked entering the lake of fire.

Hello, Abigail.

It's a decent question.

OK. But after all the judgment happens for those in or not in that book isn't that when the newness appears? And the old goes away? Like those judged and in the lake of fire. Those judged and rewarded with entry into the kingdom.

It also seems to coincide with the fact that only the righteous are said to have "eternal Life." Granted, I used to argue that existence in Hell is much like being in a state of perpetual death without actually dying, and I still hold to that. But the question remains, will they exist in that state "forever" in the way you and I understand the term today...

I'm tempted to think that answer may be no, though I am not prepared to stand on it dogmatically yet.

 

[Abigail]

Hello, Abigail.

It's a decent question.


It also seems to coincide with the fact that only the righteous are said to have "eternal Life." Granted, I used to argue that existence in Hell is much like being in a state of perpetual death without actually dying, and I still hold to that. But the question remains, will they exist in that state "forever" in the way you and I understand the term today...

I'm tempted to think that answer may be no, though I am not prepared to stand on it dogmatically yet.

Did you ever get to watch the Keanu Reeves movie, Constantine?
The portrayal of people in Hell in that movie was a first for me. Great effects to simulate the horror and torment we can only imagine. Now when I enter into discussions like this I picture that scene. It really puts a new perspective on the world today. The way people behave toward one another and for all sorts of reasons that have everything to do with personal gain.
Hell is the great equalizer.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Did you ever get to watch the Keanu Reeves movie, Constantine?
The portrayal of people in Hell in that movie was a first for me. Great effects to simulate the horror and torment we can only imagine. Now when I enter into discussions like this I picture that scene. It really puts a new perspective on the world today. The way people behave toward one another and for all sorts of reasons that have everything to do with personal gain.

Hell is the great equalizer.

No I did not, Ma'am, and thank you for the tip. If it's worth a watch, maybe I'll try and pick it up.

Watching movies together is one of those few things my wife and I can actually afford to do, LoL.

 

[Waiting on him]

Daniel 7:9-10 KJV
[9] I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. [10] A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
The lake of fire issues from the throne of God,,, crazy thing is those standing before Him.

 

[Truth7t7]

It only appears that way. Common sense and Bible knowledge would indicate that the Lake of Fire is in "outer darkness" (outside "space" -- the second heaven -- which is finite). Had you just taken a moment to reflect on the fact that a "New Earth" means total absence of everything that pollutes and defiles, you would not even be asking this question.

Scripture below clearly identifies a new heaven and earth, and those looking upon burning carcasses, this dosent appear to be space travel to a second heaven, not to mention Revelation 22:14-15 stating wickedness outside the gate?

Isaiah 66:22-24KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Revelation 22:14-15KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel 7:9-10 KJV
[9] I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. [10] A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
The lake of fire issues from the throne of God,,, crazy thing is those standing before Him.

Yes the lake of fire does come from the throne, the righteous pass through this fire in judgement to the eternal kingdom, the wicked are caught in it for eternity

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.