Will the real "Antichrist" please stand up?

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Retrobyter

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Shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
#1.. You are NOT the only audience.

#2. The citation stands as amplified by the CEV.

#3. You discount that which you do not understand (?how was that for a euphemism?), and continue as such. But if you apologize, then we move on.

#4. I provided which you requested (and gladly so), but you do not and are unrepentant.

#5. If you are as intelligent as you pretend, then you should grasp that you challenged me, and I challenged you. And if you wish to skew the conversation such that I "DEMANDED" from you, then please consider your unequal application of personal responsibility (... another euphemism ...) in your ~taking offense~.


Hope this helps,
DD
Not really, brother. It didn't help much at all. First, you need to understand that I started this thread to talk about the concept of the "antichrist," and I thought it would be best to first discuss what a "christ" is. Instead, you have tried to change the subject. Please start your own threads when you desire to change subjects.

Second, again, you have refused to identify the BOOK for the "9:25" YOU said was "proof" for your "David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin -- both referred to in Scripture" statement. This is not about personalities or offenses; just answer the question! OR butt out!

Third, I don't own a Contemporary English Version of the Bible. So, I can't even look up what you claim (WHENEVER you get around to giving me the book of the Bible that you supposedly gave as "proof").

Fourth, I should apologize for YOU butting in? I don't think so. <_<

Fifth, why should I be "repentant" about something YOU haven't made clear, yet?! :wacko: That makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

Sixth, I DID challenge your response. Which means that you should produce the proof or logic by which you concluded "David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin." That's what it means to "challenge a response!" It's just like in Scrabble: When someone gives you a word that you think is a fake word, you can challenge that word, and the person who gave the potentially "fake word" must go to a dictionary or some other source and SHOW the challenger that the word is a legitimate word! In challenging your response, I'm expecting you to provide incontrovertible proof that the two men you named were indeed "anointed" by God! You could show this by Scripture (IF you can prove that the Scripture is undeniably talking about either of these men) or you could show this historically (IF you can produce a time and place when either of these men were literally "anointed" by God). If you cannot, then perhaps you shouldn't have named them. (In which case, I've won the challenge.) If you CAN show that either of these men was indeed a "messiah," then you have won the challenge! It doesn't give you permission to IGNORE the challenge and issue your own!

By the way, a "euphemism" is defined as "a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing: 'downsizing' is a euphemism for 'cuts.'"

Just stick to the facts, and leave the emotions out of it, please.
 
B

brakelite

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Retrobyter said:
Therefore, one must know what and who is a "messiah" before one can intelligently say what an "antichrist" is.
I agree retro, we must first know Who Christ is before we can discuss the counterfeit. So...Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Mathew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple...

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system including all the ceremonies, the sacrifices, and the law of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the law itself, because He was the lawgiver.

….38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here…


Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted the entire city of Nineveh of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

…42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

He claimed to be a greater priest than the current high priest of Israel, He claimed to be a greater prophet than Jonah, and He claimed to be a greater King than Solomon. In these three startling claims, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.

As you said above retro, Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”.
In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.

Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a ‘son of perdition’ is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle impostor. A counterfeit. An impostor of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.
 

DaDad

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Retrobyter said:

You asked the Forum to name one of the "messiahs". I provided TWO, along with the Scriptural definition.

If you don't want an answer, then don't ask the question.


With Best Regards,
DD




To All,

I would propose that what "Retrobyter" is pursuing is a diversion from the reality. In fact, Jesus is the "ORIGINAL" which the counterfeit will claim. Although one can argue that Scripture supports a more generic class:

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.


And where "Retrobyter" is apparently attempting to include these Priest/King candidates in the messianic category, satan will present his one-world-government representative as though he were the TRUE Jesus. -- No more, no less.



With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
You asked the Forum to name one of the "messiahs". I provided TWO, along with the Scriptural definition.

If you don't want an answer, then don't ask the question.


With Best Regards,
DD




To All,

I would propose that what "Retrobyter" is pursuing is a diversion from the reality. In fact, Jesus is the "ORIGINAL" which the counterfeit will claim. Although one can argue that Scripture supports a more generic class:

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.


And where "Retrobyter" is apparently attempting to include these Priest/King candidates in the messianic category, satan will present his one-world-government representative as though he were the TRUE Jesus. -- No more, no less.



With Best Regards,
DD
LOL! And, THAT'S why you get called "CRAZY!" Ha! Ha! You provided two WITHOUT a Scriptural REFERENCE! I didn't want or NEED a "Scriptural DEFINITION!" And, you never DID give the book of the Bible from which that "9:25" came!

To all,

Folks, it's not meant to be a mystery or a riddle; it's really quite simple. Yeshua` was NOT the only Messiah (or Christ)! While He is the PRINCIPLE Messiah, He is not the ONLY messiah! Look at the following verses:

Exodus 28:40-41
40 And for Aaron's sons thou shalt make coats, and thou shalt make for them girdles, and bonnets shalt thou make for them, for glory and for beauty.
41 And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.
KJV


Leviticus 8:12
12 And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.
KJV


Numbers 3:2-4
2 And these are the names of the sons of Aaron; Nadab the firstborn, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
3 These are the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office.
4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the Lord, when they offered strange fire before the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father.
KJV


1 Samuel 9:27-10:1
27 And as they were going down to the end of the city, Samuel said to Saul, Bid the servant pass on before us, (and he passed on,) but stand thou still a while, that I may shew thee the word of God.
10 Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the Lord hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?
KJV


1 Samuel 16:11-13
11 And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither.
12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the Lord said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
KJV


1 Kings 1:39
39 And Zadok the priest took an horn of oil out of the tabernacle, and anointed Solomon. And they blew the trumpet; and all the people said, God save king Solomon.
KJV


1 Kings 19:13-16
13 And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15 And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
KJV


EACH ONE of these people was a "mashiyach," transliterated into English as a "messiah," translated into Greek as a "christos," transliterated into English as a "christ!" Thus, although it sounds strange to our ears, Aaron was a "messiah" or a "christ!' Each of Aaron's sons was a "messiah" or a "christ!" King Saul was a "messiah" or a "christ!" King David was a "messiah" or a "christ!" King Solomon was a "messiah" or a "christ!" When you understand this commonality between these individuals, you will begin to understand the significance of what a "messiah" or a "christ" truly is!

Many people have WEIRD definitions associated with the word "Christ" with high and UNWARRANTED expectations attached to the TITLE! It's high time that we got back to the basics in the Scriptures!

THAT'S what I'm trying to accomplish here! Pay no attention to the man who just wants to justify himself. PLEASE, can we just get back to the little game? I haven't even BEGUN to talk about an "antichrist," yet, and I don't really want you to be talking about an "antichrist" yet, either!
 

DaDad

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To All,

I would maintain that which I've proposed:

DaDad said:
...


To All,

I would propose that what "Retrobyter" is pursuing is a diversion from the reality. In fact, Jesus is the "ORIGINAL" which the counterfeit will claim. Although one can argue that Scripture supports a more generic class:

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.


And where "Retrobyter" is apparently attempting to include these Priest/King candidates in the messianic category, satan will present his one-world-government representative as though he were the TRUE Jesus. -- No more, no less.



With Best Regards,
DD

With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
To All,

I would maintain that which I've proposed:

To All,

I would propose that what "Retrobyter" is pursuing is a diversion from the reality. In fact, Jesus is the "ORIGINAL" which the counterfeit will claim. Although one can argue that Scripture supports a more generic class:

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.


And where "Retrobyter" is apparently attempting to include these Priest/King candidates in the messianic category, satan will present his one-world-government representative as though he were the TRUE Jesus. -- No more, no less.



With Best Regards,
DD
With Best Regards,
DD
First, allow me to apologize publicly for suggesting that you were crazy. You are not, you're just adamant in your beliefs, which is a good trait to have WHEN you are correct. I should have been more understanding, but you've got to understand that what I was looking for in your suggestions of David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin was BIBLICAL proof or HISTORICAL proof, not from a Bible-based book that so claimed their messiahship! I'm looking for the BOOK OF THE BIBLE that goes along with the "9:25" partial reference that says or suggests that these two men were indeed messiahs! Have I made myself clear, yet? Apparently, I wasn't being clear enough before, and you may have misunderstood what I was fishing for.

It's not an opinion; it's a FACT that there was more than one "messiah!" All "messiah" means is an "anointed one!" And, since there were MANY men in the past who were literally so anointed to office by God through normal channels, there were MANY "messiahs!" Remember when David said of Saul,
1 Samuel 24:4-6
4 And the men of David said unto him, Behold the day of which the LORD said unto thee, Behold, I will deliver thine enemy into thine hand, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good unto thee. Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily.
5 And it came to pass afterward, that David's heart smote him, because he had cut off Saul's skirt.
6 And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD'S anointed (Hebrew: limshiach), to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed (Hebrew: mashiach) of the LORD.
KJV


He ADMITTED that Sha'uwl haMelekh (King Saul), even out of God's favor, was still one of His "anointed ones!"

What makes YESHUA` (JESUS) different is that HE fulfilled the OT prophecies regarding the man whom God would anoint to be KING FOREVER!

This is neither a "diversion from reality" nor is Yeshua` the "original." The WORD was originally with God and was God, but that Word had to become flesh and dwell among people and they called Him Yeshua` haMashiach, Jesus the Messiah (Jesus the Christ)! Please note that the prophecy in Psalm 2 says that there was a particular DAY in which Yeshua` became YHWH'S Son! (Purple is the color for God's Words, the Father's Words; red is the color for Yeshua`s Words, and blue is the color for the words of the kings of the earth.)

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD (Hebrew: YHWH), and against his Anointed (Hebrew: mshiychow, meaning "HIS mashiach"), saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
KJV

So, there was a TIME when Yeshua` became the Son of God! And, you may not understand or recognize that there's a connection, but the Davidic Covenant and the prophecies associated with it spell it out:

1 Chronicles 17:1-14
1 Now it came to pass, as David sat in his house, that David said to Nathan the prophet, Lo, I dwell in an house of cedars, but the ark of the covenant of the LORD remaineth under curtains.
2 Then Nathan said unto David, Do all that is in thine heart; for God is with thee.
3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,
4
Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in:
5 For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another.
6 Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?
7 Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel:
8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth.
9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house.
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

KJV

That may SEEM radical to you, but it is in sync with God's Word!
 

DaDad

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Retrobyter said:
Shalom, DaDad.


First, allow me to apologize publicly for suggesting that you were crazy. You are not, you're just adamant in your beliefs, which is a good trait to have WHEN you are correct. I should have been more understanding, but you've got to understand that what I was looking for in your suggestions of David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin was BIBLICAL proof or HISTORICAL proof, not from a Bible-based book that so claimed their messiahship! I'm looking for the BOOK OF THE BIBLE that goes along with the "9:25" partial reference that says or suggests that these two men were indeed messiahs! Have I made myself clear, yet? Apparently, I wasn't being clear enough before, and you may have misunderstood what I was fishing for.

Hi Retrobyter,

Apology accepted! :)

Regarding the Contemporary English Version (CEV) amplification Footnote:

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.

The "9:25" is a link to Daniel, Chapter 9, so that citation was complete in it's presentation.

And regarding the David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin, it is both BIBLICAL and HISTORICAL. But where you presently cannot perceive that the Daniel 2:45 sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE is INTELLIGENT DESIGN, I wouldn't expect that you'd find that the seventy "weeks" is NOT as purported per the commentators. In fact, the scholars (per Walvoord) have accurately assessed the difficulties of this Chapter, and Montgomery correctly characterized it as "the dismal swamp of OT prophecy".

So where you have studiously relied on your commentaries, they have deceived you but you seem content. So I can only leave bread crumbs for you to ignore and/or trample on.


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
Hi Retrobyter,

Apology accepted! :)

Regarding the Contemporary English Version (CEV) amplification Footnote:

9.25 the Chosen Leader: Or “a chosen leader.” In Hebrew the word “chosen” means “to pour oil (on someone’s head).” In Old Testament times it was the custom to pour oil on a person’s head when that person was chosen to be a priest or a king.

The "9:25" is a link to Daniel, Chapter 9, so that citation was complete in it's presentation.

And regarding the David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin, it is both BIBLICAL and HISTORICAL. But where you presently cannot perceive that the Daniel 2:45 sequence: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE is INTELLIGENT DESIGN, I wouldn't expect that you'd find that the seventy "weeks" is NOT as purported per the commentators. In fact, the scholars (per Walvoord) have accurately assessed the difficulties of this Chapter, and Montgomery correctly characterized it as "the dismal swamp of OT prophecy".

So where you have studiously relied on your commentaries, they have deceived you but you seem content. So I can only leave bread crumbs for you to ignore and/or trample on.


With Best Regards,
DD
Sorry, bro', but I don't "rely upon my commentaries." I go to the source and read the Hebrew directly. I do not put my trust in any English version of the Bible, and I seriously distrust the words of men in commentaries. They are all, after all, liars like you and me! We are all simple human beings that MAKE MISTAKES! HOWEVER, I believe that the solution to understanding prophecy is to dovetail all the prophecies together, making sure that TOGETHER they make sense and satisfy the Scriptures.

For instance, it is important for a good understanding of Daniel 9 to know that, in Hebrew, every noun and verb and adjective have number and gender (masculine or feminine) and that they must agree! IF there is a difference in number or gender, then the adjective (a cardinal number, for instance) is NOT associated with that particular noun (or verb) and one must find its true word that it modifies!

We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
 

DaDad

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Hi Retrobyter,

Retrobyter said:
We can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
I stand by my statement that David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin are cited in Scripture. And if you'd read the original text with the proficiency which you profess, (and presumably the historical record to either validate or invalidate that sequence), you'd recognize the work of the scholars, instead of slandering them:

Retrobyter said:
... I find it ironic that we are supposed to listen to Newton, Montgomery, and Young in a subject entitled "Let God be true and every man a liar!"


And where you can speak for yourself, please do not presume to speak for me, or others whose integrity you may wish to impugn.

Retrobyter said:
They are all, after all, liars like you and me!


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

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DaDad said:
Hi Retrobyter,


I stand by my statement that David BenGurion & Yitzhak Rabin are cited in Scripture. And if you'd read the original text with the proficiency which you profess, (and presumably the historical record to either validate or invalidate that sequence), you'd recognize the work of the scholars, instead of slandering them:




And where you can speak for yourself, please do not presume to speak for me, or others whose integrity you may wish to impugn.




With Best Regards,
DD
Sorry, bro, but NOT ONCE are the names "Daveed benGuriown" or "Yitschaq Rabiyn" found in the Scriptures!!! And, for all the historical records and Scripture verses that we have, NOWHERE are we told that they were indeed "anointed" by God!

And, it may be a bitter pill to swallow, but I have indeed been a liar in the past, saying things I THOUGHT WITH ALL MY HEART were true and later found THEY WERE NOT!!! If you haven't discovered that fact in your own life, yet, then I feel for you, bro. It will be difficult to be leveled.

Romans 3:4
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but EVERY man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
KJV


What does "EVERY" mean to you? And, regardless how much you may idolize your "scholars," in the final analysis, they are HUMAN BEINGS just like you and me!
 

DaDad

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To All,

GOD does not call every man a LIAR. HE only states that if there is a disagreement between HIM and another, that HIS word stands TRUE.

To presume otherwise is a LIE.



With Best Regards,
DD
 

Floyd

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brakelite said:
I agree retro, we must first know Who Christ is before we can discuss the counterfeit. So...Who is He? Let us go to the scriptures to find out what and Who He claimed to be.

Mathew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple...

The temple, the priesthood, and the religious system including all the ceremonies, the sacrifices, and the law of the Jewish nation go hand in hand. It was the mainstay and focal point of the life of Israel. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater. Greater even than the very High priest who no doubt would take great interest in hearing a report of these words. Greater even than the law itself, because He was the lawgiver.

….38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here…


Jonah was the most powerful and successful of all OT prophets. In all 40 odd chapters of Jeremiah, there is no record of anyone at anytime taking the slightest bit of notice of anything Jeremiah said. Yet Jonah, on the strength of just one or two sermons, converted the entire city of Nineveh of the children of Ishmael totaling maybe 60,000 people. By any standards, that has got to be recorded as a very successful evangelistic campaign. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater than Jonah.

…42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Solomon was the wisest and wealthiest and most successful of any ruler of the ancient world. Yet Jesus claimed to be greater even than Solomon.

He claimed to be a greater priest than the current high priest of Israel, He claimed to be a greater prophet than Jonah, and He claimed to be a greater King than Solomon. In these three startling claims, we have before us the threefold ministry of Jesus. Priest, prophet, and King.

As you said above retro, Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”.
In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.

Any divorce necessitates a prior favourable relationship. The only other example of a ‘son of perdition’ is Judas Iscariot. Did Judas openly and with force oppose Christ? Did he attack His teachings and disagree with Jesus claims to divinity? Did he argue and debate everything Jesus stood for and seek the destruction of His followers? No. Not by any means. Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. He betrayed Him with an act of apparent love, fellowship, and friendship. He undermined and betayed Jesus at the same time as claiming Him to be his friend!! This squares perfectly with the meaning of antichrist. He is not an opposer, but a subtle impostor. A counterfeit. An impostor of Jesus Christ. A false copy, or forgery of the true.
Antichrist is therefore a person or power who impersonates the offices of Priesthood, the Prophet or spokesmanship, and the Kingly rule of Christ. The office that ministers for God, speaks for God, and rules for God.
I like these comments.
Floyd.
 

Floyd

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As you said above retro, Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong’s concordance, and like other words having the prefix ‘anti’, means at it’s most basic form “in the room of”, “instead of”, or “in the place of”.
In other words, ‘antichrist’ stands as a substitute. We all know that Satan works by deception. Yet many claim the ‘antichrist’ will be one who will charge in on a black horse guns blazing with fury and hatred directed at all things Christian and opposing with great force the church. Pray tell me, how will the world be deceived by such a tactic as this?
In 2 Thess. 2:1 we are told that there was to be a falling away first, which will reveal the antichrist, or as Paul describes him, the man of sin or son of perdition. Now falling away in this instance is a falling into apostasy; divorce.

BrakeLight.


No BrakeLight; many Christians do not know "Satan works by deception"!
That is part of the problem of current teaching worldwide!
See: The Gross Neglect by Church Teachers of Coming Events: (Separate study)

Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Obviously a new guy on the block, however had a question, ie, if Satan is personally bound ("if") then how may he personally work through deception?

Curious old Jack

Thank you folks for caring, and our Lord for Good Friday!
 

Floyd

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shturt678 said:
Obviously a new guy on the block, however had a question, ie, if Satan is personally bound ("if") then how may he personally work through deception?

Curious old Jack

Thank you folks for caring, and our Lord for Good Friday!
At present Satan is not bound!
That will not happen until Christ has returned to earth.
He will then be bound for 1000 years approx., Rev.20:2.
At that time, he will then not be active for nearly a 1000 years; after which he will be released for a short time, "to again deceive the people of earth".
See: Rev Chapter 20 [SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
Also: Satan's Motivation: (Separate study)
Floyd.
 

Retrobyter

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Shabbat shalom, DaDad, and Chag Pesach Sameach!

Baaruwkh ataah YHWH Eloheeynuw Melekh haa`owlaam, asher qidshaanuw bmitsowtaayv, vtsivaanuw `al cfiyrat haa`owmer:

Blessed are You, O LORD our God, King of the Age, who has set us apart by your commandments and has commanded us to count the Omer.

Today is the 4th day of the 1st week and Day 4, I have counted the Omer. (19 Nissan)

DaDad said:
To All,

GOD does not call every man a LIAR. HE only states that if there is a disagreement between HIM and another, that HIS word stands TRUE.

To presume otherwise is a LIE.



With Best Regards,
DD
Context says it all:

Romans 3:1-18
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
KJV


Just as God alone is righteous and we all stand as sinners, so God is true and we are all liars. Anyone who's been redeemed from the curse of sin knows this to be true.
 

shturt678

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Floyd said:
At present Satan is not bound!
That will not happen until Christ has returned to earth.
He will then be bound for 1000 years approx., Rev.20:2.
At that time, he will then not be active for nearly a 1000 years; after which he will be released for a short time, "to again deceive the people of earth".
See: Rev Chapter 20 [SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
Also: Floyd.http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Satan
Thank you for your response!

I thought that Satan was already conquered at the Cross - "bound" (Rev.12:7, etc. & 20:2, etc.? I was curious regarding "1000 years" literal or signified?

Old Jack's view
 

Floyd

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shturt678 said:
Thank you for your response!

I thought that Satan was already conquered at the Cross - "bound" (Rev.12:7, etc. & 20:2, etc.? I was curious regarding "1000 years" literal or signified?

Old Jack's view
Christ Jesus must finish the work God His Father (in the flesh) has given Him to do!

He will hand the finished work to the Father at the end of Millennial(1Cor.15:24), as Millennial has much yet to be finished with the people who survive the "great tribulation"; and with Satan, as mentioned.

See: Millennial Purpose (Separate study)

Floyd.
 

shturt678

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Floyd said:
Christ Jesus must finish the work God His Father (in the flesh) has given Him to do!

He will hand the finished work to the Father at the end of Millennial(1Cor.15:24), as Millennial has much yet to be finished with the people who survive the "great tribulation"; and with Satan, as mentioned.

See: Millennial Purpose (Separate study)

Floyd.
Thank you Floyd for your reponse.

I thought the 1,000 years began at the precious Cross ending at Rev.20:7, that is, we are near the end of the "tribulation, great one" with ICor.15:24 (Jn.5:28, 29 - all in their graves will rise - "1" Parousia), that is, the end of the "millennial"? Will look over the "Millennial Purpose," that is, thank you again.

Old Jack
 

Floyd

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shturt678 said:
Thank you Floyd for your reponse.

I thought the 1,000 years began at the precious Cross ending at Rev.20:7, that is, we are near the end of the "tribulation, great one" with ICor.15:24 (Jn.5:28, 29 - all in their graves will rise - "1" Parousia), that is, the end of the "millennial"? Will look over the "Millennial Purpose," that is, thank you again.

Old Jack
You are welcome Jack.
You may also be interested in Revelation generally, as in most churches it is not given space.
www.revelationsmessage.co.uk

Floyd.