Will the real "Antichrist" please stand up?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
937
30
28
shturt678 said:
Thank you for your response again!

For the heck of it tried to find one place in Rev. Chapter 20 where I could agree to agree just a little - couldn't!

Old agreeing to disagree Jack, ie, hey, I tried.
Rev.20:2.
Floyd.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
As I have explained previously, 'antichrist' means 'in place of' or 'instead of'. He opposes, but the manner by which he opposes is by removing the true Christ from His rightful position as Priest, Prophet, and King, and placing himself on that throne. Compare the following photos with the accompanying scriptures. Quite self explanatory.

Re 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Ex 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
Ex 25:19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.


man-sin-revealed.jpg
 

Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
937
30
28

[SIZE=14pt]V.8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)worship him every one whose name is not written in the (b)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt](a) Here is reached probably the highest point on earth (as opposed to heaven) for the beast/Satan, who now has many of the earth's population openly worshipping him directly, and via. his false messiah and false prophet, some believing that he is the true God. It is quite possible that the charade of Satan is so convincing that the established religions will accept him as Messiah (in the case of the Jews,) the risen Christ (in the case of Christendom,) and the hidden Imam (in the case of Islam.) This especially so as the beast will "hate the whore," (Rev. 17:16) and appear to destroy her, which is clearly false righteousness for the effect of drawing their large groups together. The question arises, who is this entity described as "the beast?" Chapter 2 of Daniel describes the figure in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. When the legs are reached they are described as iron (V.33,) and from history are clearly military and religious Rome. The ending of the military phase of Rome started in the 4th century A.D. under Constantine. He and his very influential mother Helena, began the conversion of the empire into a military and religious body, for many reasons, including the main one, effective control of the empire and people. Constantine set up his own capital at Byzantium/Stambul (Istambul) which he re-named Constantinople. This alienated Rome, which by the 11th century A.D., split completely into the East and West of the original "Holy Roman Empire." Since then the two have established separate orthodoxies, i.e. Eastern Orthodox, and Roman Church, (two legs.) The feet of the dream (Dan. 2:41) and the toes (V.42) are the subject of our present study. Verse 1 describes it as having 7 heads and 10 horns (the horns are assumed to be the toes of the "image" Dan. 2:41.) Other references to it are in Dan. 7:7 "ten horns," and 7:20 "ten horns." In 7:20 and 7:24 another horn rises and subdues 3 of them, and becomes very powerful. It is that horn in its power base that "makes war with the saints," 7:21 and 7:25. In Rev. 13, the beast has 7 heads. In Dan. 7:20 the ten horns are on one[/SIZE] head, implying that the 7 nations have become one power (Confederation,) under the most powerful horn 7:21. The identity of the little horn is the next concern. In Dan. 8:23 we are shown that he arrives out of the divided kingdom of Alexander the Great, (8:21-22,) which was divided between his four Generals at the death of Alexander. We also have many Scripture references to him. I.e; in Dan. 8:23 the correct Hebrew shows that "the transgressions," (against Israel) are to reach a peak, before "he," "shall stand up." This clearly points to the Tribulation imposed on the Jews by him (Satan) in the background, and almost certainly his full exposure ("standing up") will correspond with the breaking of "the covenant," (Dan. 9:27.) His highest representative on earth is commonly called "Antichrist." Through the Ages he has had various roles on earth i.e. (Isa. 14:4,) (Isa. 14:12,) (Isa. 14:25,) (Dan. 8:23,) (7:8) (Dan. 9:26,) (Dan. 11:36,) (Mic. 5:5,) (2 Thess. 2:3,) (2 Thess. 2:8,) (Rev. 13:1,) and (Rev. 13:18.) Some of the above apply to his future role as Antichrist.

[SIZE=14pt]IN SUMMARY, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (Confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's Trouble," for 3½ years. However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power[/SIZE] (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc. (As opposed to His first Advent as the Son of Man, and the Sacrificial Lamb.) Simultaneously much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the "wrath of God," (Rev. 16:1.)

[SIZE=14pt]There are some who claim that there is no such entity as "Antichrist," because the word is not used explicitly.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is not so, and is intended to deceive and unsettle those people that want the Truth regarding the future, from the Word of God. 1John 2:18 refers to the Antichrist in both singular and plural, the singular to the person, as embodied in the above text, and the plural in the general attitude and conviction in people against the person and Salvation work of Christ. The references in 2Thess. 2:3-9, is specific to the person, and descriptive of his actions in the last 3[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]½[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] years of time, prior to Christ's 2nd Advent![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural![/SIZE]
 

shturt678

New Member
Feb 9, 2013
970
23
0
82
South Point, Hawaii (Big Island)
Floyd said:

[SIZE=14pt]V.8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall (a)worship him every one whose name is not written in the ( B)book of the life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world.[/SIZE]

Thank you for caring again!

<Snip> only for clarity.



Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural!


Let's take another look at Rev.13:8, "And they shall do obeisance to him all those dwelling on the earth,..." Because of teh beast's authority over the world of men, "they shall do obeisance to him.." Repeating my old notes regarding this: "In most willing submission they shall bow to the antichristian world power of the beast, the agency of the dragon (Satan) who is personally bound in hell at the Cross." We do this today in light of IIThess.2:4 & Rev.13:14b of course.

Old debating Jack

shturt678 said:
Let's take another look at Rev.13:8, "And they shall do obeisance to him all those dwelling on the earth,..." Because of the beast's authority over the world of men, "they shall do obeisance to him.." Repeating my old notes regarding this: "In most willing submission they shall bow to the antichristian world power of the beast, the agency of the dragon (Satan) who is personally bound in hell at the Cross." We 'do this' today in light of IIThess.2:4 & Rev.13:14b of course.

Old debating Jack, trying not to 'do this.'
 

Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
937
30
28
[SIZE=14pt]IN SUMMARY, the "little horn," Antichrist emerges from the 4th beast (Confederacy) as its leader. Initially magnanimous to Israel, there is a 3½ year period of peace for them. After the first 3½ years, he breaks the agreement with Israel and they enter persecution (Jer. 30:7,) known in prophecy as "Jacob's Trouble," for 3½ years. However, this is the stage of the dramatic re-entry of the Christ of Jehovah onto the world stage for the first time in Power[/SIZE] (Dan. 2:34-35, 44 and 45,) (Isa.) (Zech.) (Ezk.) etc. (As opposed to His first Advent as the Son of Man, and the Sacrificial Lamb.) Simultaneously much is happening to the nations of the world, which is not of Satan, but the "wrath of God," (Rev. 16:1.)

[SIZE=14pt]There are some who claim that there is no such entity as "Antichrist," because the word is not used explicitly.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]This is not so, and is intended to deceive and unsettle those people that want the Truth regarding the future, from the Word of God. 1John 2:18 refers to the Antichrist in both singular and plural, the singular to the person, as embodied in the above text, and the plural in the general attitude and conviction in people against the person and Salvation work of Christ. The references in 2Thess. 2:3-9, is specific to the person, and descriptive of his actions in the last 3[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]½[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] years of time, prior to Christ's 2nd Advent![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural![/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Floyd.[/SIZE]
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
To All,

Floyd said:
[SIZE=14pt]IN SUMMARY, ..[/SIZE]
This post is presented both here in "Will the real "Antichrist" ..." and in "How close is the Seven Year Tribulation", to which I responded per the following:



Hi Floyd,

Floyd said:



[SIZE=14pt]Any who try to argue against these truths, are identifying themselves as "antichrist" in the plural![/SIZE]
I would propose that anyone who presents "incorrect "truths" [SIZE=14pt]are "antichrist" in the plural![/SIZE]



So now that I've got your attention, please allow me to cite your incorrect truth:


Floyd said:

... [SIZE=14pt]descriptive of his actions in the last 3[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]½[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] years of time[/SIZE]
Your statement presumes there is a first 3 1/2 years, and a second 3 1/2 years. This 7 year premise comes from the 9th Chapter of Daniel, which has NOTHING to do with the Tribulation era, except that the a/c "shall come" after the seventy weeks:

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”




Hope this helps,
DD
 

Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
937
30
28
DaDad said:
To All,


This post is presented both here in "Will the real "Antichrist" ..." and in "How close is the Seven Year Tribulation", to which I responded per the following:


Floyd, on 10 Jun 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:
Floyd said:
... [SIZE=14pt]descriptive of his actions in the last 3[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt]½[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] years of time[/SIZE]
Your statement presumes there is a first 3 1/2 years, and a second 3 1/2 years. This 7 year premise comes from the 9th Chapter of Daniel, which has NOTHING to do with the Tribulation era, except that the a/c "shall come" after the seventy weeks:

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”




Hope this helps,
DD


You are of course welcome to your opinion.
Floyd.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Hi Floyd,

Floyd said:
You are of course welcome to your opinion.
Floyd.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE allow me to present the impossibilities of the seventy sevens = 490 years, wherein the seventieth week is the Tribulation week, -- false doctrine.

I would LOVE to have a full discussion of the specifics per the following synopsis:


In the book, “Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation,” John Walvoord writes regarding the interpretation of the seventy “weeks":


1. Per Walvoord: "...Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”, P.218

2. Per Walvoord: "...as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’", P.217

3. Per Walvoord: "...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keit and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.” , P.218

4. Per Montgomery: "... efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology.", P. 217

5. Per Walvoord: "Some amillenarians, however, use a literal year time unit for the first sixty-nine weeks but an indefinite period for the last seven years, as in the case of Philip Mauro...", P. 218

6. Per Montgomery: "... the great Catholic chronographers ... as well as those of all subsequent chronographers (including the great Scalinger and Sir Isaac Newton) have failed.. And Edward Young too, finds no satisfactory conclusion for the seventy sevens ... and leaves it without a satisfactory explanation.", P. 217

7. Per Young, regarding "the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem": "This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God." , P. 224 -

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971


8. Per Newton: "We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbring used by no nation."

Isaac Newton, "Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John (1733)", http://www.isaacnewton.ca/daniel_apocalypse/pt1ch10.html



So where I would propose that everyone is entitled to an "opinion", I would most strongly adjure them to achieve KNOWLEDGE.


With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

New Member
Feb 9, 2013
970
23
0
82
South Point, Hawaii (Big Island)
Thank you folks for caring!

From the bottom of the heap, lower paygrade opinion of Dan.9:27, "one heptad.' The start of this "season," ie, the N.T. Antichrist, began at Lk.21:24 (70 A.D.) where the Antichrist shall imitate Him in some way - take the place of Christ as in IIThess.2:4 where they shall think they are actually worshipping Christ - TODAY in fact.

The ending of this "season" is the future "1" Parousia of course.

Old Jack, still putting in for a higher paygrade?