Will the US survive bible prophacy??

[verzanumi24]

(tim_from_pa;54695)
No, what you said is not correct. It depends on what you mean by chosen. There is chosen of race, and there is chosen of grace. Christians are the latter, and could also be the former as well.Israelites and Jews that do not believe are the former, and they are still chosen of race.When I was speaking of a chosen nation, I was referencing race.It is possible for one to be chosen of God, blessed by God, inherit the birthright by God and all the other promises to Abraham and still one can end up in hell in the end.
We are not under the old law of race; that covenant was changed when Jesus died on the cross. We are now under the New covenant of grace. God does not have two sets of rules, one for those under the New and those under the Old. There is only one covenant. In order for a Jew or an Israelite to be saved, it must be through the New Covenant of grace.

 

[tim_from_pa]

(verzanumi24;54698)
We are not under the old law of race; that covenant was changed when Jesus died on the cross. We are now under the New covenant of grace. God does not have two sets of rules, one for those under the New and those under the Old. There is only one covenant. In order for a Jew or an Israelite to be saved, it must be through the New Covenant of grace.
I'm not talking about the Old Covenant of the Law at Sanai. I'm talking about the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants in the Old Testament which are very much in effect yet. As a matter of fact, this was Paul's argument in Romans regarding the covenants were made because of Abraham's faith antedating the Law. This is what the one promised seed was based on to bring grace to everyone. These covenants promised many things to the race of people, whether they had faith or not, to transpire because of God's promises to Abraham.Gaining the things promised in the Abrahamic covenant does not depend on keeping the Law as they were not obtained by Law, but by grace according to Paul. God may withhold these blessings for a season if they disobeyed, but they would always be entitled to them.It seems that you are only aware of two: Old and New. There were in fact about 8 that I can think of off the top of my head---- only the Old was done away with.

 

[verzanumi24]

(tim_from_pa;54713)
I'm not talking about the Old Covenant of the Law at Sanai. I'm talking about the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants in the Old Testament which are very much in effect yet.As a matter of fact, this was Paul's argument in Romans regarding the covenants were made because of Abraham's faith antedating the Law. This is what the one promised seed was based on to bring grace to everyone..
This is the point that I am making, it has nothing to do with race, but grace. The New covenant includes all people regardless of ones racial background. In fact, since the Jews as a whole rejected Jesus and His message, He told them that the kingdom of God (The New covenant of grace) will be taken from them and give to the gentiles. So you are confusing the rules of the Old Covenant and mixing that up with the New. The New Covenant has nothing to do with Israel as a nation, as the people of God; the house of Israel will still need to accept the new covenant in order to be God's people. (tim_from_pa;54713)
It seems that you are only aware of two: Old and New. There were in fact about 8 that I can think of off the top of my head---- only the Old was done away with.
In the New Testament there is only one Covenant and that is the only one that matters.

 

[tim_from_pa]

This is the point that I am making, it has nothing to do with race, but grace. The New covenant includes all people regardless of ones racial background. In fact, since the Jews as a whole rejected Jesus and His message, He told them that the kingdom of God (The New covenant of grace) will be taken from them and give to the gentiles.So you are confusing the rules of the Old Covenant and mixing that up with the New. The New Covenant has nothing to do with Israel as a nation, as the people of God; the house of Israel will still need to accept the new covenant in order to be God's people.
Yes, the New Covenant is that of grace and includes all people "whosoever will" and "I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal." This is grace On the other hand, the promises of race say, "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend." and as Paul said in the present tense after the work of Christ was done, "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises"When it is grace, it "whosoever will"When it is race, it is "Thou Israel art my servant".The promises to the race are not the Old Covenant, as the Old Covenant is the Law regarding one's own standing with God and that of the nation based on works. That is no longer in effect as a covenant (although the standards are still correct). That has been replaced by grace.However, the other covenants have to do with choosing of a people, and that is in effect at all times as Paul clearly stated.Another example of a covenant in the Old Testament still in effect is the Noahic Covenant. We still see rainbows, right? That is not done away with either.Again, I am not convinced you understand any more than two covenants as opposed to many others that are still in effect.

 

[verzanumi24]

(tim_from_pa;54744)
However, the other covenants have to do with choosing of a people, and that is in effect at all times as Paul clearly stated.
That's my point, this is part of the Old Covenant.

 

[tim_from_pa]

(verzanumi24;54745)
That's my point, this is part of the Old Covenant.
No it is not. It is in effect today. The Old Covenant is the Law of Moses at Sinai, not the Abrahamic promises for example of Israel becoming many nations, a great population, and many kings ruling. You are lumping all the others covenant with that one. Please study your bible more.

 

[verzanumi24]

(tim_from_pa;54747)
No it is not. It is in effect today. The Old Covenant is the Law of Moses at Sinai, not the Abrahamic promises for example of Israel becoming many nations, a great population, and many kings ruling. You are lumping all the others covenant with that one. Please study your bible more.
I disagree...take care.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Then you disagree with God, with Paul and so forth.I noticed that you have the wcg website as your church.You know what the new wcg did to Armstrong's teachings? I may not agree 100% with what he said, but he was far more on the mark than mainline Christianity.You have a single track mind that will not be convinced beyond what you believe to be true and then convolute the bible to fit your notions.I used to believe as you did, simplistically and mainline evangelical, until the Lord enlightened me enough to see that I was wrong, and I had the guts to see it and change and admit I was wrong. What about you? That's what I thought. Things will stay the same. Just go your way, then.

 

[archierieus]

(tim_from_pa;54747)
The Old Covenant is the Law of Moses at Sinai,
The Old Covenant is found in Ex. 19:1 - 8. It is not specifically the 'law of Moses,' but it is a 'covenant' in the sense of a 'treaty' (NIDOTTE) under which God promised to make Israel His special people on condition that they would keep His covenant. The people responded, "All that the Lord has said, we will do." (v. 8) That passage contains the classical elements of a covenant or contract, and under it the people promised to do whatever God said. That is what makes it the 'old covenant.' It is one which they could not keep on their own. It was doomed to failure because the Jews tried to do it on their own. However, the Ten Commandments, per se, were not the 'old covenant.' The Ten Commandments were the res which the people covenanted to perform, and for failure to perform, the ceremonial law was provided.
not the Abrahamic promises for example of Israel becoming many nations, a great population, and many kings ruling.
Paul does indeed distinguish between the Abrahamic covenant and the 'old covenant.' He goes on to point out that the Abrahamic covenant was based upon faith and acting upon such faith. And, he continues, it is not the children of the flesh, that is, Israel according to the flesh, who are the children of Abraham, but those who are of faith.Dave

 

[Christina]

(verzanumi24;54745)
That's my point, this is part of the Old Covenant.
Christ came not to change the laws of the old testament but to fulfill them yes many Jews are under a slumber, but God has not forgotten them they are one of the two sticks in Eze.37 They will be joined under Christ in the End you make a big mistake if you think they are not part of true Israel

 

[archierieus]

(kriss;54768)
Christ came not to change the laws of the old testament but to fulfill them
That particular application of the word, which in English may have various shades of meaning, means, per the Greek, phlrosai, to give the true meaning to. The other Greek word for 'fulfill,' which we often think of, is a derivative of 'telew' which means to bring to completion. that is not the word used here.
they are one of the two sticks in Eze.37
Ezekiel speaks of the possibilities in the Restoration, which occurred when Cyrus and Darius gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine. On what basis do you apply it to the Last Days?Dave

 

[tim_from_pa]

(kriss;54768)
Christ came not to change the laws of the old testament but to fulfill them yes many Jews are under a slumber, but God has not forgotten them they are one of the two sticks in Eze.37 They will be joined under Christ in the End you make a big mistake if you think they are not part of true Israel
Yes, Kriss. That is correct and I also agree. I find it utterly amazing how people can wrest that passage to mean the Jews returning from the Babylonian captivity. Indeed, a careful rendition of it shows that nothing this glorious happened yet. The bible also clearly teaches over and over again that God will give them a new heart, and that all of the house of Jacob (to which the Jews are part of) will worship Christ. This also has not happened yet.If the Babylonian return was the fulfillment, then indeed God is weak and impotent and an atheist would have every right to mock our faith because God could not keep His promises. I found that those into Preterist doctrines tend to follow this line of thought regarding the return from the Babylonian captivity, and then everything after Christ is no longer literal, but spiritualized to mean a "heavenly Kingdom" the throne of David is "in our hearts" and so forth. Yeah, some Kingdom if God cannot effect it on this earth, then indeed Satan has won because there are still wars, sickness, death and so forth.

 

[verzanumi24]

(kriss;54768)
Christ came not to change the laws of the old testament but to fulfill them yes many Jews are under a slumber,
Jesus fulfilled or is the end product of what the law pointed to. The Jews are as deceived as non Jews about the things of God, His Son, His coming and why He had to come and what is God purpose for man. (kriss;54768)
but God has not forgotten them they are one of the two sticks in Eze.37 They will be joined under Christ in the End you make a big mistake if you think they are not part of true Israel
I never said that God have forgotten them; God has not forgotten them any more than God had forgotten/cast away the Gentiles back in the Old Testament, but this joint with Christ as you call it will be under a New Covenant; this New covenant is the same covenant that Christians are under. God is no respecter of persons, so He will have one system for all people, Israelites and none Israelites.Jeremiah 31:31-34 (ASV) 31 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: 34 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith Jehovah: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more. I don't know what you mean by true Israel, but anyone of the house of Israel who refuse to accept the New Covenant will not and are not considered of Israel in the Bible, and all nations who accept the New Covenant will be the true people of God.

 

[Jake99]

(Jake99;54653)
The U.S. is the Anti Christ according to the bible and the daily news. Moneychangers, gamblers, soldiers and salesman are stricktly prohibited in the Temple of God which happens to be the universe not some church in Jerusalem. All private banks must be eliminated, all armies dismantled, Casino's and scratch tickets destroyed, wages unionized and prices standardized for this planet to operate as designed. The U.S. must change its ways or the world will not survive.
(tomwebster;54663)
Jake99,You don't have any idea what you are talking about.
I hate to burst your bubble Tom but I know the Truth and the Way the bible is trying to teach you. It is all about the simple system that is to be used to govern amd manage the planet. Mankind must learn war no more and beat his swords into plowshares. Its time to take all the lines off the map and stop dividing the land. The worst leaders are the Federal Reserve, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Citi group and the moneychangers who make deals on products and land.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

It's Sad, One day this Very USA of yours will be up in Smoke. America is judged! THUS SAITH THE LORD says so. She will be destroyed and you brothers and sister better be ready. God Bless you

 

[tomwebster]

Jake, You still don't have any idea what you are talking about and you don't need to worry about bursting any of MY bubble

 

[Jake99]

Tell me tomwebster, What is it that I have said that you disagree with? And why do you disagree? Are you a believer in what a dozen men wrote down 2000 years ago who never even met Jesus or do you want to know what all of them were trying to say? The U.S. will be completely changed by the Messiah.

 

[verzanumi24]

(Jake99;54818)
I hate to burst your bubble Tom but I know the Truth and the Way the bible is trying to teach you. It is all about the simple system that is to be used to govern amd manage the planet. Mankind must learn war no more and beat his swords into plowshares. Its time to take all the lines off the map and stop dividing the land. The worst leaders are the Federal Reserve, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Citi group and the moneychangers who make deals on products and land.
I don't believe the U.S is the ani-Christ, but I do know that the U.S. will and is in a sate of decline. The U.S. will fall, and it will be a mighty fall. In fact its fall will bring down a few other nations with it. What is in store for this county at this moment is hard to believe, but it will make the poorest of the poor country look like a wonderful place. We are going to have mass unemployment; people are going to be starving in our cities. We are going to be under martial law, by this time the dollar will have no value, if it still exist. This is just an example; it will be a lot worse than this.

 

[tomwebster]

verzanumiYou might have a hard time, I will not.

 

[verzanumi24]

(tomwebster;54842)
verzanumiYou might have a hard time, I will not.
Maybe, I can only hope if that happens I will use it to God's glory.