That depends on what you mean by literal? Do you just mean physical? If so, then yes. Do you believe he literally saw a beast that had seven heads and ten horns? I do. But, did that represent an actual literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns? No, right? Same thing with the dragon, which represents Satan. John saw a dragon that had seven heads and ten horns and it says specifically that it represented Satan, but no one believes that Satan literally is a dragon with seven literal heads and ten literal horns, right?
We are talking about a city, then you interject a totally different chapter and phenomenon. Was the writer of Hebrews 11 seeing a vision?
"By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For
he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God."
"Confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their
God: for he hath prepared for them a city."
Do you think this city changes from spiritual to physical as it descends from Heaven? It is only spiritually in the firmament, but physical on the earth? If it is a literal city it is equally spiritual and physical. There is no separation of creation from God's perspective. It is Adam's dead corruptible flesh who cannot see the spiritual. But surely creation in the firmament is just as physical as on the earth. And that which is spiritual on earth, is equally spiritual in the firmament.
You have this weird perspective that nothing physical can exist in the firmament. When it is sin and death that is not allowed in the firmament. There are sons of God created on the 6th day with physical bodies in heaven, because we only know half the story of creation. We only know about how sin entered the world, and how only Adam's descendants via Noah lived after the Flood. Why do you have such a disdain for anything physical going on in Paradise?
I can read that there is a literal city up there. We are not told if they are waiting for that city for the Second Coming, or if it is already there. We only have the term Paradise, which means Garden. The point being they seem to be waiting for a literal city to live in and not some symbolic bride to live in.
Jerusalem was supposed to be a spiritual city on earth, but human flesh kept getting in the way. Why would God not have a New Jerusalem prepared that is perfect?
Why does it have to state that? When symbolism is used there is no requirement for that to be explicitly pointed out. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.
The verse says he saw a city, then a symbolism was used to describe the phenomenon of that city coming to earth.
Do you think the church is literally going to marry Jesus, or is that just symbolic terminology, because that symbolism is used heavily in both the OT and NT?
Sure, he did. What exactly do you think he saw when he said he saw a beast rise up out of the sea? Do you think when he saw his visions he saw what was symbolized in reality rather than seeing the symbols? If so, what evidence do you have to support that idea?
John saw the formation of Satan's empire throughout history. In Revelation 12, John contrasts the relationship of the nation of Israel as it faced this human governmental opposition starting with Babylon and ending with our current sad state of affairs.
Satan is introduced as the dragon behind this retelling of Daniel 2. Five of the heads are defunct. Babylon, Medes and Persia, Greece, Rome, and the ten toes. So the dragon in Chapter 12 is not just Satan, but the beast in chapters 13 and 17. Satan is one of the heads. But none of the 7 heads will be the 7th kingdom. We are currently under the 6th head. The 6th Kingdom is a non global kingdom. It was the result of the stone cut out finally destroying that ancient beast or statue at the time of the Reformation. The time when the church went out and sprung up every where on earth. Is this current head mortally wounded since the Reformation? When the church leaves will this head be revived from the destruction of the Second Coming at the 6th Seal? Peter claims all the works on earth will be destroyed. Does Satan have some underground resources to reboot this 6th head, as Jesus is working on setting up the 7th Kingdom?
Obviously this beast is not literal. But no one seems to be able to make heads nor tales out of this symbolism. Satan's stars were immediately impounded upon following Satan in disobedience. But they are loosed at the 5th Trumpet, the first woe. Stars are not literal, nor huge physical bodies of gas, up in the firmament. At least not how we are told to view them. (Satan has the whole world deceived as to this imaginary universe. God calls it the firmament and created angels to be the lights called stars in this firmament. The firmament is as physical as the earth, sans sin and death. Scripture does call them a flame of fire and pneuma/air/gas. Hebrews 1:7
"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."
Scripture describes them as burning like a gas flame. Is that not what a star does?) They are just the angels, who literally come to earth. Why do you think a simple angel cannot produce a bright light? Even John uses both terms throughout the book interchangeably with each other. Can you figure out which term is literal and which term is their day job?
When Jesus was on the Mount of Transfiguration, Scripture states His face shone as the brightness of the sun, even as small as one's face can be. Another Scripture that states even the sons of God will shine on the earth as bright as any star. Daniel 12:3
"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."
Matthew 13:43
"Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
I John 3:2
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
Ok, "as He is" means something. He showed them who He is on the Mount of Transfiguration. A bright light like the sun. When we put on the spirit at the Second Coming, we will be seen "as He is". Not hidden from people spiritually. Having on that white robe per the 5th Seal, is the point of being glorified. All the sons of God from Adam's seed, will be restored to Adam's son of God image, that was physically and spiritually taken away from Adam when he disobeyed God. It is both a physical body and a flaming spirit. That is what putting on the spirit does, turns one into a sun. God is light, God is spirit, the physical and spiritual quality that allows God communication with His creation equally, not divided like many here think earth is only physical and the firmament is only spiritual. And Paul in saying, this death puts on non death is just that, being glorified and looking like a sun or star, or that bright light that will blind us dead humans, because we are "of death". The distinction is both holy and spirit. When creation is restored, humans will be sons of God in God's image which is light.
You seem to miss the point that those before the Cross had to wait as souls in death, no body nor spirit. At the Cross they were awarded the physical restoration in Paradise now in God's presence with the physical Jesus Christ and King. Now we and them await the Second Coming for the restoration of the spirit. The whole point of leaving Abraham's bosom, was the physical body being restored. They are not still merely souls, and why would they have needed bodies in Abraham's bosom in sheol, in death? But Paradise is a physical and spiritual place where now they can enjoy life, ie a physical permanent incorruptible body. That is the Resurrection and the Life. That is the first resurrection, physical.
Now we, the church as a whole, are still waiting for the last restoration, that of the robe of white, putting on the spirit. That is what John says happens at the 5th Seal. Paul calls it this mortal putting on immortality because we on earth need both. Those in Paradise are not mortals. They are alive in Christ, not dead in Christ. They are not physically dead, but physically restored since the Cross, and the ongoing power of them always rising first. They are enjoying this scene in Paradise serving God night and day, out of great tribulation, the last 1993 years, the tribulation of those days as experienced by the church over the centuries.
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
John was seeing something for the first time, that was going on way before he wrote down what he saw. This was not a brand new phenomenon. They had been serving God day and night for almost 2,000 years.
