Wine or Juice at Last Supper

[Taken]

And, if you sit to your family supper....with a beer and pizza, or milk and meat and potatos and ask the Lord to Bless your meal IN His Holy Name...are you remembering Him...and will He say, oops, wrong food for remembering Him? Nah.

Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

If we have a recovering alcoholic with us....grape juice. Otherwise wine! I mean, wine not?

 

[Phoneman777]

Why do some churches use wine in communion? Wine is made with yeast, so why have unlevened bread if its in the drink?
Matt.26:27-29
Mark14:23-25
Luke22:17-20
No mention of wine... I always use juice, but have been wondering.

Nothing fermented was present at the Last Supper. The Jews were instructed by Moses to remove all leaven and anything that had begun the process of leavening - which included juice that had started the process of turning into booze - in preparation for the Passover.

By the time of the Last Supper, there was nothing but fresh grape juice to drink, as I've tried to explain to that intrepid papist ignoramous Dead Bread, but he refuses to accept any Scripture that refutes his ridiculous "proof" texts for the establishment of the papal Eucharist, in which booze is on the menu. Did you know that there are many alcoholic treatment centers for alcoholic nuns and priests who got hooked on booze through the ministry of the Eurcharist?

 

[Phoneman777]

If we have a recovering alcoholic with us....grape juice. Otherwise wine! I mean, wine not?

Wine not?
1) The spotless lamb typified not only Christ's outward perfect life but also the inward perfection of His blood, which would nevrer be symbolized by putrid, alcoholic booze.

2) There was no booze at the Last Supper per the commandment of Moses that all things fermented were to be removed from the midst of the Jews in preparation for the Passover, which left only grape juice to be served.

3) Solomon says don't even look at grape juice when it begins to turn to booze, much less serve it in church.

I know, I know, I'm being to "rigid" and "conservative" and "fundamentalist", but remember: When you're an old man in church, the younger generation with that same "anything goes" attitude you now have will be accusing you of being too rigid, conservative, and fundamentalist when you speak out against their live sex shows/orgies in church while proclaiming "freedom in Christ" as so many proclaim today to excuse that which Christ has not condoned.

 

[farouk]

Good one...and agree.

If it supposedly wasn't real wine, then it wasn't a real miracle ...

 

[Truth]

I have been away for a while, so let me just give a little piece of my mind, which is not always food for thought, But let us consider the Alter which the Hebrew's Sacrificed on Daily! In the Morning at the Temple, they Offered A Lamb, and A Bread Offering, and A Libation of WINE, and in the Even, they Offered A Lamb, and A Bread Offering, and A Libation of Wine!!! Consider this! That the Alter is God's Table, and God was always willing to Meet with anyone, So He always Had Meat, Bread and Wine at His Table!!! Come and Dine With Me, and let Us Deal with Life! Wine and Blood are Synonymous in Hebrew Thought, and Bread is the Staff of Life, as My Great Grandmother used to Say. This is My Body [Bread] and this is My Blood which is shed for many [Blood]!!! At every Sabbath Jew's Break Bread, and say Blessed are you oh lord our God Creator of the Universe who bring's forth Bread from the Earth, and then they lift up a cup of WINE, and say blessed are you oh Lord our God Creator of the Universe Who bring's for the Fruit of the Vine. From the time that Abraham was visited from the Priest most High, after He rescued Lot, and the Priest came out with Bread and Wine, they always Blessed God in this Manner! So why did Our Savior, Tell the Apostles, As Often as You do this Do it in REMEMBRANCE OF ME!!!! Wine is not a Sin, being a stupid Drunker-ed is wrong!

 

[Nancy]

I have been away for a while, so let me just give a little piece of my mind, which is not always food for thought, But let us consider the Alter which the Hebrew's Sacrificed on Daily! In the Morning at the Temple, they Offered A Lamb, and A Bread Offering, and A Libation of WINE, and in the Even, they Offered A Lamb, and A Bread Offering, and A Libation of Wine!!! Consider this! That the Alter is God's Table, and God was always willing to Meet with anyone, So He always Had Meat, Bread and Wine at His Table!!! Come and Dine With Me, and let Us Deal with Life! Wine and Blood are Synonymous in Hebrew Thought, and Bread is the Staff of Life, as My Great Grandmother used to Say. This is My Body [Bread] and this is My Blood which is shed for many [Blood]!!! At every Sabbath Jew's Break Bread, and say Blessed are you oh lord our God Creator of the Universe who bring's forth Bread from the Earth, and then they lift up a cup of WINE, and say blessed are you oh Lord our God Creator of the Universe Who bring's for the Fruit of the Vine. From the time that Abraham was visited from the Priest most High, after He rescued Lot, and the Priest came out with Bread and Wine, they always Blessed God in this Manner! So why did Our Savior, Tell the Apostles, As Often as You do this Do it in REMEMBRANCE OF ME!!!! Wine is not a Sin, being a stupid Drunker-ed is wrong!

It's nice to see you back Truth.

 

[Willie T]

Nothing fermented was present at the Last Supper. The Jews were instructed by Moses to remove all leaven and anything that had begun the process of leavening - which included juice that had started the process of turning into booze - in preparation for the Passover.

By the time of the Last Supper, there was nothing but fresh grape juice to drink, as I've tried to explain to that intrepid papist ignoramous Dead Bread, but he refuses to accept any Scripture that refutes his ridiculous "proof" texts for the establishment of the papal Eucharist, in which booze is on the menu. Did you know that there are many alcoholic treatment centers for alcoholic nuns and priests who got hooked on booze through the ministry of the Eurcharist?

I wonder, then, how anyone could have so easily and automatically assumed they were drunk at Pentecost.... and why Peter never bothered to mention that there was no strong drink available anymore? And why the NT Bible kept on admonishing not to get drunk?

It takes about 3 months to make wine without extra yeast... and that is with a lot of sugar. Pentecost was only a little over a month and a half from Passover.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nothing fermented was present at the Last Supper. The Jews were instructed by Moses to remove all leaven and anything that had begun the process of leavening - which included juice that had started the process of turning into booze - in preparation for the Passover.

By the time of the Last Supper, there was nothing but fresh grape juice to drink, as I've tried to explain to that intrepid papist ignoramous Dead Bread, but he refuses to accept any Scripture that refutes his ridiculous "proof" texts for the establishment of the papal Eucharist, in which booze is on the menu. Did you know that there are many alcoholic treatment centers for alcoholic nuns and priests who got hooked on booze through the ministry of the Eurcharist?

Lets all bow down to religion and all its filthy works. If wine was so bad, Jesus certainly had no reason to turn water into wine. But than there was more to it than just that.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The cup of the New Testament represented the sinless blood of Jesus, thus red and unfermented - new wine.

 

[Ac28]

The last supper was the Passover meal. No Gentile could participate in the Passover, Exodus 12:43, 45. Gentiles today, none of which have ANY association with Israel, are NEVER TOLD in the ONLY scripture written TO or ABOUT us today, Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, to participate in communion. During Acts, it was different, since EVERY saved Gentile was part of Israel, being grafted into Israel. Communion is just another of the myriad of things stolen from Israel by the know-nothing denominational Church (synagogue) system, things that were never given to us Gentiles today.

The term Lord's Supper is only used once and it meant Baal's Supper.

 

[CoreIssue]

Christ turned water into wine, not juice.

Wine was the common drink of the day. It was the safest thing to drink healthwise.

They did not put new grapes into old skins because the alcohol had hardened the leather. Another fermentation process would have exploded the skins.

Plus there was no way to preserve juices as juice back then. He would always ferment due to the natural sugars in the juice.

Juice was called new wine. Once fermented it was wine.

I see no verses talking about drinking new wine.

I stopped drinking alcohol years ago from personal choice. Now I avoid it because I'm a diabetic.

I can see nothing in the Bible to say the wine at the Lord's table is anything but wine.

But neither can I see anything that disallows the use of juice.

 

[farouk]

Thanks all. The yeast thing bothered me, also the fact that wine is mentioned so often and so obviously missing in these verses. I didn't know if it was man's tradition, I still don't.
I get somewhat amused when people say the details aren't important, when most of you take every verse (for lack of a better analogy), down to the lowest common denominator. ie: translation, word origin, etc.

Much appreciation for your reponses and sharing your knowedge. @Enoch111 special thank you for validating my question.
Blessings

The way I look at it is when the Lord Jesus turned the water into wine at Cana, it was real wine; it wasn't just dropping some colouring to make it look like wine...

 

[Willie T]

I get a kick out of so many people deploring yeast. Have none of you read Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21 ? Jesus actually equated God's kingdom of Heaven to leaven.

 

[Enoch111]

I get a kick out of so many people deploring yeast. Have none of you read Matthew 13:33 and Luke 13:20-21 ? Jesus actually equated God's kingdom of Heaven to leaven.

In the parables of the Kingdom, "the Kingdom of Heaven" is the outward manifestation of the Kingdom of God. Thus it has four kinds of soil, wheat and tares, good fish and bad fish, birds of the air nesting in the mustard tree, etc. Which means that all is not sweetness and light.

Therefore when we come to the parable of the leaven, leaven being a metaphor for that which is corrupt and evil (the leaven of hypocrisy, the leaven of malice and wickedness, etc), we have to stay with the given meaning of leaven.

In this parable the woman is Satan, pretending to be a good woman when she is actually a wicked witch. Although the Kingdom of Heaven (the three measure of meal or flour) should really produce 100% unleavened bread (righteousness), she contaminates it with leaven, which naturally grows by leaps and bounds, and thus the whole Kingdom is leavened -- corrupted. This speaks of the apostasy that began during the time of the apostles, and has now become the Great Apostasy.

In contrast, there is only one parable -- the Pearl of Great Price -- which is totally positive. There are many interpretations of this but it would seem that the merchant is Christ Himself, who gave His life for the redemption (purchase) of His Bride (the Church), which would then be the Pearl of Great Price. This corresponds Malachi 3:16,17: Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

 

[Acolyte]

To each his own. May our Father bless and keep us even with our differences. Thank you all for your point of view.