with out the infant baptised there would not be one christian to day

[horsecamp]

it was those that were infant baptized who for so many centuries were the keeps of Gods word with out them we all would be heathens .

if infants were not to be included in the whole households that were baptized in the bible .. why did God give his holy spirit to those early Christians that were infant baptized .. why would. God the holy spirit be part of such evil.
Why would God have allowed them to pass his bible down to you?
do you honestly think men baptized as infants like st Bernard should not have been given the holy spirit.

do you REALLY think infants can come to Jesus in baptism as a Judas '

are infants part of all nations ..

is baptism law that you must keep or is it Gods grace in Jesus

WHO INSTITUTED the commission of baptism moses or Jesus?
what does the bible say?


the law came through moses grace and truth came through j
Jesus Christ.

JESUS INSTITUTED HOLY BAPTISM

the great commission then it must be his grace and truth ..

prolife in jesus for this life . and the next

infant baptism nothing does the child bring Simply to Christ they then cling

grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Gods grace and truth is having SAVING FAITH in. Jesus our only savior from OUR sins.
its for infants to born of sinful flesh they to must be reborn (have faith in J
esus)
flesh gives birth to flesh but the spirit gives birth to spirit..


HOLY BAPTISM IS THE ONLY BAPTISM JESUS INSTRUCTS HIS CHURCH TOM USE.




AS THE VERSE SAY'S

ONE BAPTIM ONE LORD ONE....

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

it was those that were infant baptized who for so many centuries were the keeps of Gods word with out them we all would be heathens .

if infants were not to be included in the whole households that were baptized in the bible .. why did God give his holy spirit to those early Christians that were infant baptized .. why would. God the holy spirit be part of such evil.
Why would God have allowed them to pass his bible down to you?

do you honestly think men baptized as infants like st Bernard should not have been given the holy spirit.

do you REALLY think infants can come to Jesus in baptism as a Judas '

are infants part of all nations ..

is baptism law that you must keep or is it Gods grace in Jesus

WHO INSTITUTED the commission of baptism moses or Jesus?
what does the bible say?


the law came through moses grace and truth came through j
Jesus Christ.

JESUS INSTITUTED HOLY BAPTISM

the great commission then it must be his grace and truth ..

prolife in jesus for this life . and the next

infant baptism nothing does the child bring Simply to Christ they then cling

grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Gods grace and truth is having SAVING FAITH in. Jesus our only savior from OUR sins.
its for infants to born of sinful flesh they to must be reborn (have faith in J
esus)
flesh gives birth to flesh but the spirit gives birth to spirit..


HOLY BAPTISM IS THE ONLY BAPTISM JESUS INSTRUCTS HIS CHURCH TOM USE.




AS THE VERSE SAY'S

ONE BAPTIM ONE LORD ONE....

I think you answered your own conundrum.

 

[horsecamp]

yes but to give the answers took many years of listening to objections of Baptist theologians and then reading Scriptures
for its answers and also hearing from the witness of ..early church fathers that were alive at the time of the apostles. even checking out relics left by early Christians that gave witness to infant baptism.

 

[Raeneske]

yes but to give the answers took many years of listening to objections of Baptist theologians and then reading Scriptures
for its answers and also hearing from the witness of ..early church fathers that were alive at the time of the apostles. even checking out relics left by early Christians that gave witness to infant baptism.

The problem with infant baptism, is stated within the Scriptures.

Luke 3:7-9 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mark 1:4-5 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Matthew 3:7-8 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Acts 8:35-38 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

A couple of times, we find people forbidden (mainly the Pharisees, and Saducees) because John, through the Spirit and Power of the Holy Ghost, discerned that they were not repentant sinners. We also find in the book of Acts, the eunuch when hearing the preaching of Jesus, wanted to be baptized, and asked what hindered him from being baptized? Philip only gave him an okay if he believed with all his heart, then he could.

How can an infant bring forth any of these things? How can an infant affirm that they believe with all their heart, or how can they bring forth fruits of repentance?

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

When anyone and their house believes in Jesus, where does it mention infants? It doesn't. Some attempt to assume infants within these passages. But the Scriptures previously written show one must show fruits of repentance, and they must believe in the LORD Jesus Christ as LORD and Saviour. How can any infant do either of those things?

 

[Selene]

How can an infant bring forth any of these things? How can an infant affirm that they believe with all their heart, or how can they bring forth fruits of repentance?

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

When anyone and their house believes in Jesus, where does it mention infants? It doesn't. Some attempt to assume infants within these passages. But the Scriptures previously written show one must show fruits of repentance, and they must believe in the LORD Jesus Christ as LORD and Saviour. How can any infant do either of those things?

An infant is baptized to take away the "original sin" that was passed down from Adam and Eve and also so that the infant would be part of God's family. In the Bible, whole households were baptized (See Acts 16:15 and 1 Corinthians 1:16), which would include not only infants but also servants. St. Peter declared that baptism and the Holy Spirit was also for the children (See Acts 2:38-39).

History also shows that the Early Christians baptized both infants and adults. According to those historical documents:

Irenaeus

"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus

"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen

"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).
"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

In the third century, there was even a debate as to how old an infant should be baptized. Some say on the eighth day, which is the same day as the Jewish circumcision:
Cyprian of Carthage

"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

The problem with infant baptism, is stated within the Scriptures.

Luke 3:7-9 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mark 1:4-5 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Matthew 3:7-8 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Acts 8:35-38 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

A couple of times, we find people forbidden (mainly the Pharisees, and Saducees) because John, through the Spirit and Power of the Holy Ghost, discerned that they were not repentant sinners. We also find in the book of Acts, the eunuch when hearing the preaching of Jesus, wanted to be baptized, and asked what hindered him from being baptized? Philip only gave him an okay if he believed with all his heart, then he could.

How can an infant bring forth any of these things? How can an infant affirm that they believe with all their heart, or how can they bring forth fruits of repentance?

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

When anyone and their house believes in Jesus, where does it mention infants? It doesn't. Some attempt to assume infants within these passages. But the Scriptures previously written show one must show fruits of repentance, and they must believe in the LORD Jesus Christ as LORD and Saviour. How can any infant do either of those things?

Agree.

 

[Selene]

The Early Christians of the first, second, third, fourth centuries, etc. showed that they practiced infant baptism and there was never any debates over it. The only debate you would find is a third century document debating on how old the infant should be baptized.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

The Early Christians of the first, second, third, fourth centuries, etc. showed that they practiced infant baptism and there was never any debates over it. The only debate you would find is a third century document debating on how old the infant should be baptized.

Absolutely correct. Infant baptism and sprinkling of water is mentioned in the didache.

 

[Alanforchrist]

it was those that were infant baptized who for so many centuries were the keeps of Gods word with out them we all would be heathens .

if infants were not to be included in the whole households that were baptized in the bible .. why did God give his holy spirit to those early Christians that were infant baptized .. why would. God the holy spirit be part of such evil.
Why would God have allowed them to pass his bible down to you?

do you honestly think men baptized as infants like st Bernard should not have been given the holy spirit.

do you REALLY think infants can come to Jesus in baptism as a Judas '

are infants part of all nations ..

is baptism law that you must keep or is it Gods grace in Jesus

WHO INSTITUTED the commission of baptism moses or Jesus?
what does the bible say?


the law came through moses grace and truth came through j
Jesus Christ.

JESUS INSTITUTED HOLY BAPTISM

the great commission then it must be his grace and truth ..

prolife in jesus for this life . and the next

infant baptism nothing does the child bring Simply to Christ they then cling

grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Gods grace and truth is having SAVING FAITH in. Jesus our only savior from OUR sins.
its for infants to born of sinful flesh they to must be reborn (have faith in J
esus)
flesh gives birth to flesh but the spirit gives birth to spirit..


HOLY BAPTISM IS THE ONLY BAPTISM JESUS INSTRUCTS HIS CHURCH TOM USE.




AS THE VERSE SAY'S

ONE BAPTIM ONE LORD ONE....



The Bible mentions three Christian baptisms, And not one of them is infant baptism, How can an infant, know the gospel, understand, believe and receive salvation, Then chose to be baptised??.

The three Christian baptisms are
[1]The rebirth, 1 Cor 12: 13.
[2]Water baptism, Acts 8: 36--38.
[3]The baptism in the Holy Ghost, Acts 1; 4--5.

The "One baptism", is the rebirth. 1 Cor 12; 13.... Otherwise it would make water greater then the Sirit.

There is no such thing as infant baptism, It is a false religions teaching.

 

[aspen]

God chooses us, we do not choose Him.

 

[Alanforchrist]

God chooses us, we do not choose Him.

If God choses us, That would make Him a respecter of people, As He would chose some and reject others.
And if God did chose us, and not others That would make Him a sinner, As He would chose some and not others.

So the truth is, We chose to live for God.

 

[Selene]

If God choses us, That would make Him a respecter of people, As He would chose some and reject others.
And if God did chose us, and not others That would make Him a sinner, As He would chose some and not others.

So the truth is, We chose to live for God.

God has the free will to choose whomever He wants and He did. Out of all the nations on earth, He chose Israel to be His chosen people. Of course, this does not mean that God did not love the other nations. He loved them too, but Israel is the people He chose to be His people.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

 

[Niki]

If God choses us, That would make Him a respecter of people, As He would chose some and reject others.
And if God did chose us, and not others That would make Him a sinner, As He would chose some and not others.

So the truth is, We chose to live for God.

ummmm......going to disagree Alan

God chose Abram (later Abraham)
Moses
David
all the OT prophets and on and on

For the LORD has chosen Jacob to be his own, Israel to be his treasured possession. Psalm 135:4

In the NT we read that we have been chosen:

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
I Peter 2:9

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5heb predestined us for adoption to sonshipc through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9hed made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. ePH 1

We do have to balance that with freedom of choice, IMO, but not everyone agrees with that. Irregardless, it is without doubt, according to scripture, of which I have given only
a few examples...there are many more...that God does indeed choose. Perhaps He chooses because He knows who will respond...but nontheless, He does choose

ps: scripture actually does indicate that there are those and in fact ENTIRE nations that God does reject


For balance, God does say to Israel "Choose this day whom you will serve." before they entered the promised land.

So, God chooses, we make a choice also. I'm not in either camp with regards to complete predestination or complete freedom of choice. I guess you can tell
from my post I believe it is both and quite possibly because God knows the outcome of our choices

ps...back to the op

Infant baptism is not in scripture that I can tell. Water does not forgive sins and neither do people. Only the blood of Christ washes away our sins and infants cannot choose anything.


In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22

In context:

Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.
6When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
The Blood of Christ
11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,a he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtainingbeternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,c so that we may serve the living God!
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

 

[aspen]

We offended God in the Garden - God choose to forgive us and pursue us. We are incapable of fixing the relationship - only God can repair the damage.

 

[horsecamp]

hi Alan if you keep reading about being reborn in the bible it becomes evident it is referring to holy baptism .

Jesus Gives no other baptism for his church to use..

Also all the evidence of the earliest Christians shows they believed this way to.. they had their infants baptized

also SOME Baptist believe in baptismal REGENERATION ALSO . to this day.. Though I think they only baptize adults but you can check into it I may be wrong and they may baptize infants..

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Mostly it was the Anabaptists who changed over to adult baptism as standard doctrine and practice

(Anabaptist roughly means ... "to be baptized over" ) .... in other words they had already received the (catholic) infant baptism and felt it should be done as adults if they decided to be Christians.

I find it interesting that even the Anabaptist's and protestants ... "dedicate their babies to The Lord" ... and the ceremony is very similar to infant baptism .... and sometimes the pastor will even "sprinkle water' on the baby.

I am not catholic .... but I understand that .... Catholics ..... as young adults .... usually confirm their ... "infant baptism" .... by public "catechism" .

I see more similarities between the two groups than I see differences.

It is my guess that infant baptism was "too Catholic" for some people so they start all the denominational disputes.

Christians love their denominational disputes.

hell ..... I even know people who are .... against infant baptism - - yet they themselves have been baptized more than once as adults - - (just in case they didn't get it right the first time.)

.........

On a side note ..... I have always found Jesus' statement interesting .... "Baptize all the nations" .... I always took it to mean .... "Baptize the believers in all the nations " ... (not just the Jews)

God chooses us, we do not choose Him.

That could very well be the truest statement on this whole subject.

 

[Selene]

I am not catholic .... but I understand that .... Catholics ..... as young adults .... usually confirm their ... "infant baptism" .... by public "catechism" .

Not all candidates are teens. Some are actually adults who never took the Sacrament of Confirmation when they were much younger. In my parish, the teen has to take two years of CCD classes. For adults, it is a year. Afterwards, they are given the Sacrament of Confirmation. In Confirmation, the "laying of the hands" by the Bishop with the words "Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit" in addition to the anointing of the Chrism oil are esssentials symbols of this sacrament. Yes, confirmation completes their baptism. Converts who wish to join the Catholic Church must go through the RCIA classes, which can also take up to a year, and then they can receive the Sacraments. A person who wishes to join the Roman Catholic Church cannot just automatically join. They are mistaken if they think that all they need to do is to walk up to a Catholic priest and declare that they want to be Catholic. It doesn't work that way.

In the Early Church, Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist were given together in one sacramental ritual. However, in the Roman Catholic Church, the three sacraments became separated when it became impossible for the bishop to perform all the Baptisms. So priests became the ordinary ministers for Baptism while the Bishop conducts the Confirmation.

However, the Eastern Catholics still keep all three sacraments together and still follow the traditional practice to this day. The Eastern Catholics are in full communion with the Pope, but their liturgies are not the same as ours in the Roman Catholic Church. They pretty much follow the liturgies of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is recognize as valid in Rome.

 

[Alanforchrist]

God has the free will to choose whomever He wants and He did. Out of all the nations on earth, He chose Israel to be His chosen people. Of course, this does not mean that God did not love the other nations. He loved them too, but Israel is the people He chose to be His people.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

Israel was God's chosen nation, But that doesn't mean He choses people now.
As I said, That would make Gos a sinner, As He would have respect of people and not of others.
Jn 15: 16, Is talking about chosen for Ministry, Jesus gives the Ministers, Eph 4: 11. And God sets them in the Church.
1 Cor 12: 28. No one can chose thier Ministry, It has to be a God given Ministry.

For anyone to say God choses some for salvation and others for hell, They must thing God is an evil siiner.

ummmm......going to disagree Alan

God chose Abram (later Abraham)
Moses
David
all the OT prophets and on and on

For the LORD has chosen Jacob to be his own, Israel to be his treasured possession. Psalm 135:4

In the NT we read that we have been chosen:

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
I Peter 2:9

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5heb predestined us for adoption to sonshipc through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9hed made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. ePH 1

We do have to balance that with freedom of choice, IMO, but not everyone agrees with that. Irregardless, it is without doubt, according to scripture, of which I have given only
a few examples...there are many more...that God does indeed choose. Perhaps He chooses because He knows who will respond...but nontheless, He does choose

ps: scripture actually does indicate that there are those and in fact ENTIRE nations that God does reject


For balance, God does say to Israel "Choose this day whom you will serve." before they entered the promised land.

So, God chooses, we make a choice also. I'm not in either camp with regards to complete predestination or complete freedom of choice. I guess you can tell
from my post I believe it is both and quite possibly because God knows the outcome of our choices

ps...back to the op

Infant baptism is not in scripture that I can tell. Water does not forgive sins and neither do people. Only the blood of Christ washes away our sins and infants cannot choose anything.


In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22

In context:

Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.
6When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
The Blood of Christ
11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,a he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtainingbeternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,c so that we may serve the living God!
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

You obviously don't serve the same God as I do, Because my God isn't an evil sinner like your god.
God has chosen a body, And that body consists of anyone and evryone who believes and receives salvation.

You god choses some for salvation and others for hell, And that makes him a respecter of people,
But that isn't my God, The God of the Bible, [God the Father], Who isn't a respecter of people, But anyone who choses to live for God, God will gladly accept.

hi Alan if you keep reading about being reborn in the bible it becomes evident it is referring to holy baptism .

Jesus Gives no other baptism for his church to use..

Also all the evidence of the earliest Christians shows they believed this way to.. they had their infants baptized

also SOME Baptist believe in baptismal REGENERATION ALSO . to this day.. Though I think they only baptize adults but you can check into it I may be wrong and they may baptize infants..

Water baptism doesn't save, The disciples were baptised, But they weren't saved.
Paul was saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost, But he wasn't baptised in water.
The Gentiles in Acts 10, Were saved baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water.
As I have said, The Bible mentions three Christian baptisms.

 

[Selene]

Israel was God's chosen nation, But that doesn't mean He choses people now.
As I said, That would make Gos a sinner, As He would have respect of people and not of others.
Jn 15: 16, Is talking about chosen for Ministry, Jesus gives the Ministers, Eph 4: 11. And God sets them in the Church.
1 Cor 12: 28. No one can chose thier Ministry, It has to be a God given Ministry.

For anyone to say God choses some for salvation and others for hell, They must thing God is an evil siiner.

That is not what we meant for "choosing." God chooses certain people to carry out His mission. For example, He chose Moses to bring His people out of slavery from Egypt. And this doesn't make God a sinner. He has free will and He can choose whomever He wants. Where did anyone say that God chose some for salvation and others for Hell?? Who said that??

Water baptism doesn't save, The disciples were baptised, But they weren't saved.
Paul was saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost, But he wasn't baptised in water.
The Gentiles in Acts 10, Were saved baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water.
As I have said, The Bible mentions three Christian baptisms.

According to the Scriptures I quoted, baptism can save. Why? Because baptism came from God. Do you believe that what comes from God can save a man? Do you believe that salvation comes from God? If you believe that salvation comes from God, then why is it difficult to believe that the things of God and from God can bring salvation?

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. [fn] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Thanks Selene ..... "confirmation" was the word I was looking for

All I know is it is something (Catholics) take very seriously

Not a lot different than Protestants standing up in public to be baptized

Once we get through all the terminology we all pretty do much the same thing in the end.

I think if more Protestants understood Catholic "rituals' we would not be so hostile

Who's job is it to explain Catholic Christianity anyway ??

I am not catholic and it has been a slow learning process

thank you

Arnie M.