with out the infant baptised there would not be one christian to day

[Selene]

Well, you know, if Jesus did not baptize infants, then why do you want to baptize them? So, if Jesus cousin John was filled with the Spirit of God in the womb, does that mean
every child should be? I think there may be a problem of understanding the difference between MEANT FOR EVERYONE and THIS IS AN EXCEPTION.

YOU were the one who said that a person must make a personal decision to accept Jesus as Savior in order to receive the Holy Spirit. I just showed you through scripture that your belief is in error. God can give the Holy Spirit to whomever He wants....including to people who did not make a personal decision. So, this belief that God only gives the Holy Spirit to people who make a personal decision is already an error. God has free will and can give His spirit to whom He wants. He does not follow man's rules of "meant for everyone" and "this is an exception." Those are man's rules and God is not bound by the rules of man.

Actually, why would you think He does? Again, you are looking at an exception and claiming it is the truth for everyone when it is not. God is capable certainly, but that is
obviously not His choice because if every infant were filled with the Holy Spirit the world would not suffer from sin as it does. Infant baptism precludes choice yet God Himself
says "Choose they day whom you will serve." Infants cannot do that. Which you actually really do understand unless you have seen them walking up for communion with
their diaper hanging out. (humor)

So, you are saying that St. John the Baptist did not suffer from sin just because he was already filled with the Holy Spirit?? How did you come to this conclusion?? John also suffered from sin just like everyone else. John suffered persecution and death. He suffered from the sins of others. All the Apostles suffered persecution, trials, and temptations despite that they had the Holy Spirit in them. Tell me......did Jesus suffer from sin??

Jesus also suffered from sin.......OUR sins. It was our sins that made Christ suffer. It was the sins of the people that made Christ suffer. As long as we are in this world of sin, we will suffer. The only time you will see absolutely no suffering is in Heaven. Why? Because there is no sin in Heaven. No one in Heaven suffers, but everyone on earth suffers because sin didn't just enter mankind. It also entered the entire world (See Romans 5:21), which is the reason why we have disease, old age, and all kinds of calamities. Old age and disease does not exist in Heaven. Therefore, every infant born also suffers because they carry the Original Sin that was passed down from Adam and Eve, and God brought baptism so that even Original sin can be removed.

The fact that the Early Christians of the first century practiced infant baptism is already evidence that infant baptism is part of God's plan.

John 21:25 Jesus also did many other things. If they were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written.

Do you remember this scripture above that I once posted to you. One of the things that Jesus did which was not written down was allowing infant baptism.......and the fact that the Early Christians of the first century practiced infant baptism is the evidence for it.

 

[Niki]

YOU were the one who said that a person must make a personal decision to accept Jesus as Savior in order to receive the Holy Spirit. I just showed you through scripture that your belief is in error. God can give the Holy Spirit to whomever He wants....including to people who did not make a personal decision. So, this belief that God only gives the Holy Spirit to people who make a personal decision is already an error. God has free will and can give His spirit to whom He wants. He does not follow man's rules of "meant for everyone" and "this is an exception." Those are man's rules and God is not bound by the rules of man.

You are not making sense. Jesus even told Nicodemus that a person must be born again...that is, believe in Him...Jesus...and God said the same thing in the book of John,
chapter 3, verse 16. So that is erroneous now? So infants are saved by water at the decision of their parents?

The Bible teaches that God, who is holy, gives His HOLY Spirit to unbelievers? And, He does this just to prove He can do whatever He wants?

Huh.. Who knew. I certainly have not found that in the Bible nor have I ever been taught that either. Maybe because that is also not in the Bible?

God is omnipotent..he does not exercise free will...His, is the ONLY will. His creation gets to make a choice..God has already made His. He is Holy and He
certainly does not throw His Spirit around as if it were some sort of freebie included for attending church. Believers are sealed with the Spirit of God.

An exception is something that occurs out of the norm or the usual way something happens. John was filled with the Holy Spirit in the manner of the
OT prophets....PRIOR to the death and resurrection of Jesus. The Holy Spirit was sent for ALL believers...not infants who do not even know their own
name....AFTER Jesus returned to the Father.

To state that infants receive the Holy Spirit because of ONE instance in scripture, and that ONE instance BEFORE Jesus was even born, is extraordinary in
and of itself in the dept of misinterpretation almost to the point of deliberately trying to deceive, but I had better just leave that one in God's hands as He already
knows more about it than I do. That belief, is the unsound doctrine that we are warned about in the New Testament.

So, you are saying that St. John the Baptist did not suffer from sin just because he was already filled with the Holy Spirit?? How did you come to this conclusion?? John also suffered from sin just like everyone else. John suffered persecution and death. He suffered from the sins of others. All the Apostles suffered persecution, trials, and temptations despite that they had the Holy Spirit in them. Tell me......did Jesus suffer from sin??

Hmmm...did I say that? OK ~ just checked. No, I did not say that. I really think you need to get back to trying to prove infant baptism saves us from hell because you are going
off in all directions for some reason and making some things up as you go along. Interesting use of the word suffer. On that subject, Jesus suffered for OUR sins....not His.

Jesus also suffered from sin.......OUR sins. It was our sins that made Christ suffer. It was the sins of the people that made Christ suffer. As long as we are in this world of sin, we will suffer. The only time you will see absolutely no suffering is in Heaven. Why? Because there is no sin in Heaven. No one in Heaven suffers, but everyone on earth suffers because sin didn't just enter mankind. It also entered the entire world (See Romans 5:21), which is the reason why we have disease, old age, and all kinds of calamities. Old age and disease does not exist in Heaven. Therefore, every infant born also suffers because they carry the Original Sin that was passed down from Adam and Eve, and God brought baptism so that even Original sin can be removed.

Well no, now see? You are not quite getting it right. He suffered FOR our sins as opposed to from our sins. He not only suffered; He died. Are you trying to make a new op about
suffering or something? I believe what scripture states and yes, Jesus suffered AND died. Well, I guess you just had to get that off your chest. Ok.

The fact that the Early Christians of the first century practiced infant baptism is already evidence that infant baptism is part of God's plan.

John 21:25 Jesus also did many other things. If they were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written.

Do you remember this scripture above that I once posted to you. One of the things that Jesus did which was not written down was allowing infant baptism.......and the fact that the Early Christians of the first century practiced infant baptism is the evidence for it.

OK...so you believe in infant baptism BECAUSE it is not in the Bible.

Yes, that is definitely much clearer now. Got it. :wacko:

 

[Selene]

You are not making sense. Jesus even told Nicodemus that a person must be born again...that is, believe in Him...Jesus...and God said the same thing in the book of John,
chapter 3, verse 16. So that is erroneous now? So infants are saved by water at the decision of their parents?

Niki, in my previous post, baptism means to be "born again." That is what Catholics believe in. In fact, you even admit in your own post #50 that: Baptism is symbolic of our death in Christ and rebirth into new life (See your post #50). Well, that is what Catholics believe baptism to be........it is to be born again into a new life. And Jesus said, unless one is born of water and spirit, one cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Baptism is to be born of water and spirit.......the way Christ was baptized at the Jordan River. Christ was baptized with water and spirit. This is the baptism that we are baptized with.

Does baptism save? According to the Bible, it does. And these scriptures below confirms that I am not in error of saying that baptism can save. Show me scripture that specifically says that "baptism cannot save anyone." Mark 16:16 already says that those who believe AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. 1 Peter 3:2 says that "water" which symbolized baptism can save. So, now.......show me the scripture that says that "baptism cannot save anyone."

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. [fn] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Hmmm...did I say that? OK ~ just checked. No, I did not say that. I really think you need to get back to trying to prove infant baptism saves us from hell because you are going

Yes you did. This is what you stated in your post #59:

Actually, why would you think He does? Again, you are looking at an exception and claiming it is the truth for everyone when it is not. God is capable certainly, but that is
obviously not His choice because if every infant were filled with the Holy Spirit the world would not suffer from sin as it does.

You assumed that because John the Baptist was already filled with the Holy Spirit that he would not suffer from sin.

off in all directions for some reason and making some things up as you go along. Interesting use of the word suffer. On that subject, Jesus suffered for OUR sins....not His.

Excuse me.....but I did say that Jesus suffered from OUR sins. I also said that John the Baptist and the Apostles suffered from sins. Whether the sin was their own or not is irrelevant. All sins cause everyone to suffer because our sins affect not only ourselves but others as well. The sins of other people also affect us.

As St. Paul said, we are all members of the Body of Christ. If even one member sins, it hurts all other members. So, even if John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit in Him since he was in the womb, that never guaranteed that he was never going to suffer from sin because sin affects everyone on earth. The only place a person does not suffer at all would be when he/she is in Heaven.

OK...so you believe in infant baptism BECAUSE it is not in the Bible.

Yes, that is definitely much clearer now. Got it. :wacko:

Don't you read my posts? I stated that there is a hint of infant baptism in the Bible. Do you not remember. I DID provide you with scripture stating that all the people in a "household" were baptized. Unless you can prove to me that there was absolutely no infants in any of those households, then there is a hint of infant baptism in there. In the same way......the Holy Trinity is in the Bible despite the fact that you can't find the words "Holy Trinity" in it. In fact, you can't even find the word "rapture" in there as well.

I believe in infant baptism for two reasons: 1) there is a hint of it in the Holy Bible, and 2) the fact that the Early Christians of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, etc...centuries were practicing it and there were no protests about it.

 

[mjrhealth]

I believe in infant baptism for two reasons: 1) there is a hint of it in the Holy Bible, and 2) the fact that the Early Christians of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, etc...centuries were practicing it and there were no protests about it.

And that makes it right??? If a child dies, baptised or not it will go to God, because ALL children belong to God. The day comes that only He knows when one must CHOOSE whom they will serve. If they do not choose God, being baptised at birth will not save them, because it was not THERE choice to do so. Hitler being a german, and many being catholics was probably baptised at birth, do you think that was going to save him after all he did Only repenting of his deeds and calling out to Christ could achieve that. Thank God for His patients and Grace.

In all His Love

 

[Selene]

And that makes it right??? If a child dies, baptised or not it will go to God, because ALL children belong to God. The day comes that only He knows when one must CHOOSE whom they will serve. If they do not choose God, being baptised at birth will not save them, because it was not THERE choice to do so. Hitler being a german, and many being catholics was probably baptised at birth, do you think that was going to save him after all he did Only repenting of his deeds and calling out to Christ could achieve that. Thank God for His patients and Grace.

In all His Love

Mark 16:16-17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons;they will speak in new tongues;

Okay......let's go over this slowly and see if I can make you understand my perspective. According to this scripture above, Jesus mentions two stipulations for a person to be saved....Stipulation #1 is to believe and Stipulation #2 is to be baptize. I included verse 17 in there. Notice that in verse 17, it says that signs will accompany those who believe. According to the Bible, the signs include driving out demons in Jesus' NAME.

Now, here's the thing.....what happens to the person who only meets ONE of those stipulations? Let's say, for example, that the person is baptized, but he lost his belief in God. The answer is simple. God will judge him. Christians don't make any judgments on who goes to Hell. We never know what God's judgments are. After all, He can have mercy on whomever He wants (See Romans 9:15) It's really God's call.

Now, let's look at the person who believes but did not get himself baptize because he thinks it's not necessary. He also only met one stipulation. So, what happens to him? Again, God will be the one to judge him. Christians don't make any judgments on who goes to Hell. After all, God can have mercy on whomever He wants (again see Romans 9:15) We never know what God's judgments are. It's His call. Now, here is a question for you to contemplate: Is it possible for a believer to be in Hell? According to the Bible, the answer is "yes."

Matthew 7:21-22 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Now according to this biblical verse above, these are people who prophesy in Jesus NAME and drove out demons in Jesus' NAME. They knew Jesus by NAME and even perform great miracles using His NAME. Now, let's go back to Mark 16:16-17.

Mark 16:16-17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

So, what were the signs to show that they were believers? In Jesus' NAME, they will drive out demons. So, why were those people in Matthew 7:22 condemned when they showed the signs of being believers by driving out demons in Jesus' NAME? Well.....maybe they didn't listen to God's words.......like getting themselves baptized (Matthew 7:24). Who knows????

Now, if I was living during that time, and I heard Jesus spoke those words, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved and he who believes not will be damned, I will certainly get myself baptized. I will not question His words nor second guess it, but simply put it into practice (See Matthew 7:24). I would not want to stand before the judgement seat of God and have to answer His question as to why I did not get myself baptized especially after hearing the words of His Son.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Mark 16:16-17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons;they will speak in new tongues;

Okay......let's go over this slowly and see if I can make you understand my perspective. According to this scripture above, Jesus mentions two stipulations for a person to be saved....Stipulation #1 is to believe and Stipulation #2 is to be baptize. I included verse 17 in there. Notice that in verse 17, it says that signs will accompany those who believe. According to the Bible, the signs include driving out demons in Jesus' NAME.

Now, here's the thing.....what happens to the person who only meets ONE of those stipulations? Let's say, for example, that the person is baptized, but he lost his belief in God. The answer is simple. God will judge him. Christians don't make any judgments on who goes to Hell. We never know what God's judgments are. After all, He can have mercy on whomever He wants (See Romans 9:15) It's really God's call.

Now, let's look at the person who believes but did not get himself baptize because he thinks it's not necessary. He also only met one stipulation. So, what happens to him? Again, God will be the one to judge him. Christians don't make any judgments on who goes to Hell. After all, God can have mercy on whomever He wants (again see Romans 9:15) We never know what God's judgments are. It's His call. Now, here is a question for you to contemplate: Is it possible for a believer to be in Hell? According to the Bible, the answer is "yes."

Matthew 7:21-22 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Now according to this biblical verse above, these are people who prophesy in Jesus NAME and drove out demons in Jesus' NAME. They knew Jesus by NAME and even perform great miracles using His NAME. Now, let's go back to Mark 16:16-17.

Mark 16:16-17 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

So, what were the signs to show that they were believers? In Jesus' NAME, they will drive out demons. So, why were those people in Matthew 7:22 condemned when they showed the signs of being believers by driving out demons in Jesus' NAME? Well.....maybe they didn't listen to God's words.......like getting themselves baptized (Matthew 7:24). Who knows????

Now, if I was living during that time, and I heard Jesus spoke those words, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved and he who believes not will be damned, I will certainly get myself baptized. I will not question His words nor second guess it, but simply put it into practice (See Matthew 7:24). I would not want to stand before the judgement seat of God and have to answer His question as to why I did not get myself baptized especially after hearing the words of His Son.

Jesus didn't say baptism saves, The original Greek emphesis for, "Saved", In Mk 16: 16, Is on the "BELIEVING", Not baptism.
Jesus proves this by going on to say,
"He that believth not shal be damned".

Please note, Jesus didn't say, He that isn't baptised shal be damned...DID HE??.. No, False religions made that lie up

 

[mjrhealth]

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Lots of things changed after Christs resurection, baptism cannot save anyone,

In all His Love

 

[Selene]

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Lots of things changed after Christs resurection, baptism cannot save anyone,

In all His Love

There is only one baptism (See Ephesians 4:5). Show me in the Holy Bible where it says that baptism cannot save anyone.

And do you know what baptism means?

Jesus didn't say baptism saves, The original Greek emphesis for, "Saved", In Mk 16: 16, Is on the "BELIEVING", Not baptism.
Jesus proves this by going on to say,
"He that believth not shal be damned".

Please note, Jesus didn't say, He that isn't baptised shal be damned...DID HE??.. No, False religions made that lie up

According to Strong's biblical translation, the Greek word for "saved" in Mark 16:16 is "sozo", and it's a verb....not an adjective. See the weblink below:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4982&t=KJV

 

[horsecamp]

secular Scientists are finding out babies do sin.. They even enjoy when harm comes to other babies
they do not like. lutheran science institute has a recent secular scientist article archived..

also many case of shaken baby syndrom comes from stressed out parent that just had enough
of a baby.
that would not shut up. even when there needs were taken care of..
they taken them to doctors and some babies just throw sinful tantrums.
more than one parent has shaken a baby to death trying to get them to shut up.
years ago doctors had no way of knowing wether a baby died of infant crib death
or being shaken now because of science they can tell better what caused the death..

The only sin an unbaptized baby has is Original Sin. Babies don't have any personal sins because they are too young to commit any personal sins of their own. The two reasons Catholics baptize infants is to remove the original sin that they inherit from Adam and Eve and to incorporate them into God's family as members of the Body of Christ.

When the child grows up to be an adult and becomes a member of the mafia and do all the things that the mafia does (murder, drugs, theft, etc.), these are not Christian things to do. Their behavior is not Christian. The only time I ever heard the former Pope John Paul II speak about Hell was to the Mafia in Sicily. His message to them was that there is a hell if they don't change their ways. A similar message was given by the Apostle Paul when he spoke to the Corinthians about their bad behavior. There are good and bad people in the Church. In fact, in every church they are good and bad people. Most of us struggle with sin while some of us relish in their sin. Therefore, it's their behavior that determines their fruit. Those who repents from their sins are the true Christians while those who are unrepentant are not Christians.

 

[Niki]

Premise: Baptism saves you. Get your infant baptized and they are saved.

Question: If you are an adult and never baptized, but you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, are you going to hell or heaven?

Premise: My baby was baptized in the church so now, no matter, what they are heaven bound

Question: If your infant grows up to be Jack the Ripper, are they going to heaven or hell?


Scriptural Baptism Explained: The Right Motive.

1. Matthew 3:13-15 To fulfill all righteousness. (Note: not to get righteousness) Meaning that Christ did everything right.
2. Matthew 28:18-20 To fulfill the command of God. The Great Commission involves preaching, teaching, and baptizing, in that order.
3. 1 Peter 3:21 To produce a clear conscience, because you have done the will of God. I quote here 1 Peter 3:21 in full to show that Baptism will not remove sin."The like figure where unto even baptism doth also save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ."
   Notice it is a figure (figurative) and
4. Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,
5. But the answer of a good conscience toward God.
6. A good conscience will not save you

LOOK UP AND READ THESE SALVATION VERSES AND SEE THAT NONE OF THEM INCLUDE BAPTISM IN GOD’S PLAN OF SALVATION: JOHN 3:16, 3:18, 3:36, 5:24, 6:51, 6:54, 10:9; ACTS 4:12; ROMANS 10:9-13; EPHESIANS 2:8-9; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 1 JOHN 5:10-13. THESE VERSES ARE JUST A FEW. THERE ARE MANY, MANY OTHER SALVATION VERSES WHICH TOTALLY LEAVE BAPTISM OUT AS A NECESSITY FOR SALVATION. READ FOR YOURSELF. MAY THE TRUTH OF GOD’S WORD SET YOU FREE FROM MAN-MADE PLANS OF SALVATION. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY, JOHN 14:6, "JESUS SAITH UNTO HIM, I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME."​

​

The word "baptize" is transliterated from Greek "Baptizo" which means "to dip", "to plunge", "to submerge", "to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet)." If you haven’t been plunged under, submersed, you have not been SCRIPTURALLY BAPTIZED!​

​

So, no sprinkling or spritzing or splashing. It's all the way under which is how Jesus was baptized. That, is what the word means.​

​

​

If baptism is just a sprinkle, the why does the Bible say this?::​

​

John 3:23 says, "And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there..."​

​

Did you ever notice that in John 3:18 Jesus says, "He that believeth on Him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God:"? If baptism was necessary for Salvation, wouldn’t that be the appropriate place to tell them, after all, vs22-23 shows them baptizing??? They weren’t condemned because they weren’t baptized, but because they didn’t BELIEVE ON HIM!!!​

​

Note: copy paste from another site...I agree with the above...​

The question is not 'show me in the Holy Bible where it says that baptism cannot save anyone.

The question is 'show us in the Scriptures where it states that infant baptism saves you.

Never mind, we already had that exercise and we know it does not say that anywhere

Why would the Bible say baptism cannot save anyone when God has already said, in His word, that belief in His Son is salvation. John 3:16

Baptism is an ordinance and a confession and demonstrates that we are buried with Christ and coming out of the water indicates resurrection.

Even if you threw an infant into deep water, they would not be saved. Obviously they would drown. Jesus saves...water is symbolic.

 

[Alanforchrist]

There is only one baptism (See Ephesians 4:5). Show me in the Holy Bible where it says that baptism cannot save anyone.

And do you know what baptism means?


According to Strong's biblical translation, the Greek word for "saved" in Mark 16:16 is "sozo", and it's a verb....not an adjective. See the weblink below:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4982&t=KJV

Of cause the Greek word for "Saved" Is "Sozo", But what has that got to do with baptism not saving??..
Jesus said He that believeth is saved., Baptisn is one's identification with Jesus, And it comes after one is ALREADY saved.
It is one's outward sign of an ALREADY inward experience, It is on'e identification to the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.
But it certainly doesn't save.

 

[Selene]

Of cause the Greek word for "Saved" Is "Sozo", But what has that got to do with baptism not saving??..
Jesus said He that believeth is saved., Baptisn is one's identification with Jesus, And it comes after one is ALREADY saved.
It is one's outward sign of an ALREADY inward experience, It is on'e identification to the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.
But it certainly doesn't save.

Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved and he who believes not will be damned." Later, He told His Apostles to "baptize all nations in the name of the Father,the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). This is no longer John's baptism. John never baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He only baptized for the forgiveness of sins. After Christ came, John's baptism is no more. The baptism that came afterwards is a baptism of water and spirit. After Pentecost, this is what Peter said:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is not John's baptism. John never baptized in the name of Christ. St. Peter made it clear in the above scripture that after being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, they will receive the Holy Spirit. I've noticed that some of my Christian brothers on this board say that there are 6 or 12 different kinds of baptism, but there is only one baptism as St. Paul pointed out (Ephesians 4:5). The baptism that saves us is the one with water and spirit.....a baptism that allows one to be born again in a new creation.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized will be saved and he who believes not will be damned." Later, He told His Apostles to "baptize all nations in the name of the Father,the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). This is no longer John's baptism. John never baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He only baptized for the forgiveness of sins. After Christ came, John's baptism is no more. The baptism that came afterwards is a baptism of water and spirit. After Pentecost, this is what Peter said:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is not John's baptism. John never baptized in the name of Christ. St. Peter made it clear in the above scripture that after being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, they will receive the Holy Spirit. I've noticed that some of my Christian brothers on this board say that there are 6 or 12 different kinds of baptism, but there is only one baptism as St. Paul pointed out (Ephesians 4:5). The baptism that saves us is the one with water and spirit.....a baptism that allows one to be born again in a new creation.

I know John's baptism isn't the Christian baptism.

Jesus said, Believe and be saved, Mk 16: 16, The Greek Bible text emphesis for "Saved" In MNk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing",
Not baptism.
Jesus proves this by going on to say, "He that belietheth not shall be damned".
Please note, Jesus didn't say he that ISN'T baptised shall be damned, DID HE???.. NO..NO.. False religions made that up.

AS for Acts 2: 38. The Greek text says it this way,
"Repent for the remision of sins, And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.... Then and then only can you be baptised.
And that is the way the people would have heard and understood Peter.

Peter knew baptism didn't save, Because he was baptised, But he wasn't saved...Not until Jesus died and rose again.
If baptism saves, then Peter would have already been saved before Jesus died to save us.

To understand the Bible, We need to know when it's God doing the talking, Or when it's a Biblical character doing the talking, Or when it's the translaters, Either misleading us, Or getting it right.
And some of the scriptures are wrongly translated from the original Hebrew Old Testament scriptures, and the Greek New Testament scriptures.

 

[Selene]

I know John's baptism isn't the Christian baptism.

Jesus said, Believe and be saved, Mk 16: 16, The Greek Bible text emphesis for "Saved" In MNk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing",
Not baptism.
Jesus proves this by going on to say, "He that belietheth not shall be damned".
Please note, Jesus didn't say he that ISN'T baptised shall be damned, DID HE???.. NO..NO.. False religions made that up.

AS for Acts 2: 38. The Greek text says it this way,
"Repent for the remision of sins, And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.... Then and then only can you be baptised.
And that is the way the people would have heard and understood Peter.

Peter knew baptism didn't save, Because he was baptised, But he wasn't saved...Not until Jesus died and rose again.
If baptism saves, then Peter would have already been saved before Jesus died to save us.

To understand the Bible, We need to know when it's God doing the talking, Or when it's a Biblical character doing the talking, Or when it's the translaters, Either misleading us, Or getting it right.
And some of the scriptures are wrongly translated from the original Hebrew Old Testament scriptures, and the Greek New Testament scriptures.

Brother AlaninChrist, it would be pointless for Jesus to say that those who do not believe and is not baptized will be damned because all unbelievers are not baptized. As long as they remain unbelievers, they will not be baptized. If a believer is truly a believer, he/she will follow Christ when He required baptism as one of the stipulations to be saved.

The significance of baptism means to be "born again."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

We interpret this scripture above as "baptism", and Christ said that we cannot enter His Kingdom unless we are born of water and spirit (meaning baptism).

To be born of water means to be buried with Christ through baptism (See Romans 6:3-4) as Christ takes away all sins (including the Original sin that only infants have) so that one then enters the family of God as His/son or daughter and heir to His kingdom. To be born of spirit is to be one with Christ through the Holy Eucharist and to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that we become a new creation in Christ. For us, Holy Confirmation symbolized Pentecost where the gifts of the Holy Spirit was given. Confirmation completes our baptism just as Pentecost completes the baptism of the Church for that was when the Church was born. Now, it is up to us to live out our baptism.

If baptism is not part of God's salvation, Christ would not bother to institute it. The fact that the New Testament opens up with God allowing John the baptist baptizing for the forgiveness of sins shows that God has a plan involving baptism. Christ allowed His Apostles to practice baptism even after John the Baptist was beheaded. Christ told His Apostles to baptize all nations in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Apostles continue to baptize even after Christ ascended into Heaven. All this showed that baptism is part of God's plan of salvation. St. Paul says it clearly. We must be buried with Christ in baptism in order for us to be resurrected like Christ.

Romans 6:3-5 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was.

St. Paul says it better than I can. We become joined with Christ in baptism. We join ourselves with Him in His death. So, how can we be joined with Christ in His death if not through baptism?? Baptism is part of God's plan of salvation because by joining ourselves to His death, we then joined with Him in His resurrection. And resurrection from the dead is salvation.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Brother AlaninChrist, it would be pointless for Jesus to say that those who do not believe and is not baptized will be damned because all unbelievers are not baptized. As long as they remain unbelievers, they will not be baptized. If a believer is truly a believer, he/she will follow Christ when He required baptism as one of the stipulations to be saved.

The significance of baptism means to be "born again."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

We interpret this scripture above as "baptism", and Christ said that we cannot enter His Kingdom unless we are born of water and spirit (meaning baptism).

To be born of water means to be buried with Christ through baptism (See Romans 6:3-4) as Christ takes away all sins (including the Original sin that only infants have) so that one then enters the family of God as His/son or daughter and heir to His kingdom. To be born of spirit is to be one with Christ through the Holy Eucharist and to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that we become a new creation in Christ. For us, Holy Confirmation symbolized Pentecost where the gifts of the Holy Spirit was given. Confirmation completes our baptism just as Pentecost completes the baptism of the Church for that was when the Church was born. Now, it is up to us to live out our baptism.

If baptism is not part of God's salvation, Christ would not bother to institute it. The fact that the New Testament opens up with God allowing John the baptist baptizing for the forgiveness of sins shows that God has a plan involving baptism. Christ allowed His Apostles to practice baptism even after John the Baptist was beheaded. Christ told His Apostles to baptize all nations in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Apostles continue to baptize even after Christ ascended into Heaven. All this showed that baptism is part of God's plan of salvation. St. Paul says it clearly. We must be buried with Christ in baptism in order for us to be resurrected like Christ.

Romans 6:3-5 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was.

St. Paul says it better than I can. We become joined with Christ in baptism. We join ourselves with Him in His death. So, how can we be joined with Christ in His death if not through baptism?? Baptism is part of God's plan of salvation because by joining ourselves to His death, we then joined with Him in His resurrection. And resurrection from the dead is salvation.

You are adding your own thoughts to Mk 16: 16, The Greek emphesis for "Saved" In Mk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing", NOT BAPTISM, And I rather believe God.

Please note, Jesus DID NOT say one must be born of the Spirit and BE BAPTISED IN WATER,..DI HE??... NO..NO.. false reilegious people made that lie up.
The "Water" in Jn 3: 5, Is refering to the word. See Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

So if the "Water" in Jn 3: 5 is refering to anything, It is the word.

Baptism in Rom 6: 3-5, Is only symbolic of our identification to Christ's death burial and resurrection. IT IS NOT THE THING THAT SAVES.
Paul knew baptism doesn't save, He was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water.. So why would Paul mean we are joined with Christ at water baptism.

The only baptism that Saves us and unites us to Jesus, Is the Spiritual baptism, [The rebirth] 1 Cor 12: 13.

 

[mjrhealth]

Mat 20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

And what was Christs baptism, it was death, and what was this cup,

Mar 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

It was His suffering. Christ was not speaking of water baptism, but men like always have created there own doctirnes of teh devil and love them, not willing to come into teh truth, rather believe the lie and so, "choose", to remain in there delusion.

In all His Love

 

[Selene]

You are adding your own thoughts to Mk 16: 16, The Greek emphesis for "Saved" In Mk 16: 16, Is on the "Believing", NOT BAPTISM, And I rather believe God.

Please note, Jesus DID NOT say one must be born of the Spirit and BE BAPTISED IN WATER,..DI HE??... NO..NO.. false reilegious people made that lie up.
The "Water" in Jn 3: 5, Is refering to the word. See Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

So if the "Water" in Jn 3: 5 is refering to anything, It is the word.

Baptism in Rom 6: 3-5, Is only symbolic of our identification to Christ's death burial and resurrection. IT IS NOT THE THING THAT SAVES.
Paul knew baptism doesn't save, He was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water.. So why would Paul mean we are joined with Christ at water baptism.

The only baptism that Saves us and unites us to Jesus, Is the Spiritual baptism, [The rebirth] 1 Cor 12: 13.

I DID say that we must be born of water and spirit. To be born of water and spirit is to be baptized. There are some who believe that baptism is "symbolic." It is not symbolic because the spirit is REAL. There is nothing symbolic about the "spirit." And the word "spirit" is never used to mean "symbolic."

 

[Alanforchrist]

I DID say that we must be born of water and spirit. To be born of water and spirit is to be baptized. There are some who believe that baptism is "symbolic." It is not symbolic because the spirit is REAL. There is nothing symbolic about the "spirit." And the word "spirit" is never used to mean "symbolic."

Born of the water, in Jn 3: 5, Isn't water baptism.
PLEASE NOTE, Jesus didn't say,
"He that is born of the Spirit and baptised in water", DI DHE???..NO..NO.. False religious people made that lie up.

I have shown you what the water is,, THE WORD OF GOD.

Water baptism is only a symbol, But being born of the Spirit is real.
Check out the Greek for water baptism, And you will see that is doesn't save...,Only false religions believe water baptism saves.

The Bible proves water baptism DOESN'T SAVE.
The disciple were batised, But it didn't save them...DI IT?..NO.
Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, But he wasn't baptised in water, WAS HE??.. NO..NO.. Not till after.
The Gentiles in Acts 10, Were born again, [Saved], Baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water WERE THEY..NO..NO.. Not till after.

I was saved[ Born again] 7th 12th. 1975.
Baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, [Which is the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost], 11th. 5th .76.
And wasn;t baptised in water untill 3rd 7th 76.
So you have come to late to tell me that water baptism saves, Because I know from the Scriptuires, Greek and experience that it doesn't.

So if you knew the Bible and the Greek texts on water baptism, You would know it doesn't save.

 

[Niki]

This confusion with the Holy Spirit is very confusing. The Holy Spirit is not received at baptism. The NT says no such thing. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe
and there is also the second infilling for the gifts of the Spirit...just ask a Charismatic Catholic Christian Selene and they will be glad to sort you out I'm sure.

 

[Alanforchrist]

This confusion with the Holy Spirit is very confusing. The Holy Spirit is not received at baptism. The NT says no such thing. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe
and there is also the second infilling for the gifts of the Spirit...just ask a Charismatic Catholic Christian Selene and they will be glad to sort you out I'm sure.

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we get born again, But there is a different experience called the Baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Jesus told His disciples that they would receive power when they get baptised in the Holy Gost, Acts 1: 4--5, & 8.
Yet some of those disciples were already saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit in Jn 20: 22, We know Peter was, Because Jesus asked Peter if he had the agape love of God, In Jn 21: 15--17.
One cannot have the agape love of God unless they are born again.

Plus, The disciples in Acts 8, Were born again and baptised in water, Yet they weren't baptised in the Holy Ghost until the Apostles laid hands on them, V14--17.

Plus, Paul asked some disciples if they had rceived the baptism in the Holy Ghost, Acts 19: 2--6.
If the baptism in the Holy Ghost was the same as the rebirth, Why would Paul asked the question??.. He would have known they had the Holy Ghost, If it wasn't a sepperate experience.