Women Pastors / Teachers

[David in NJ]

It goes beyond the scope of that text to say that the older women should ONLY teach the younger women to love their husbands and children, and never to teach a male anything.

Teaching regarding scriptural matters is not the exclusive task of the minister alone anyway. I'm sure you remember the Romans 15:14 text where Paul commends the entire assembly, saying, "And I am persuaded, my brethren - I myself also - concerning you, that ye yourselves also are full of goodness, having been filled with all knowledge, able also one another to admonish." This is not men alone being commended for this. All of the Roman believers were able to admonish one another. When a male cannot bring himself to receive admonition or knowledge from a fellow congregant who happens to be female, he is refusing something which Paul referred to as "goodness".

You said: Both genders are to represent the ministry = 100% AGREE and Truth = Genesis

However, something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church.

What might that be and Who established that = God or man?

 

[RedFan]

You said: Both genders are to represent the ministry = 100% AGREE and Truth = Genesis

However, something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church.

What might that be and Who established that = God or man?

Is "exercise authority over" inclusive of "preach to" here?

 

[David in NJ]

Is "exercise authority over" inclusive of "preach to" here?

Did the LORD include any women to be one of the Twelve Apostles?

The Foundation of the church is Christ First then the Apostles and Prophets.

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[RedFan]

Did the LORD include any women to be one of the Twelve Apostles?

The Foundation of the church is Christ First then the Apostles and Prophets.

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

I can't tell if this is an answer to my question or not. I'll try again. Does your Genesis reference about women not "exercising authority over" men include not "preaching to" men?

 

[David in NJ]

Is "exercise authority over" inclusive of "preach to" here?

FYI - women who are Blood Washed and filled with the Holy Spirit absolutely can teach AND should.

As long as they remained with their 'head covering' = which is a husband over them unless they are a widow in which case, if they are a young widow , they are encouraged to seek a Holy Spirit filled husband but are not commanded to.

Corrie ten Boom preached and taught for she was filled with the Holy Spirit and endured the sufferings of Christ.
i would listen to her for sure and not be uncomfortable in any way.

And let us not forget about Deborah and Pheobe and Anna.

 

[RedFan]

I just can't communicate well. One of my many flaws. I'll give it one more shot, and then quit:

I am not asking whether women should be allowed to preach to men. I am asking a very specific question about Genesis, and specifically your statement that "something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church."

In your view, does that subjugation referenced in Genesis mean that women should not be preaching in the Church?

 

[3 Resurrections]

You said: Both genders are to represent the ministry = 100% AGREE and Truth = Genesis

However, something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church.

What might that be and Who established that = God or man?

Adam's disobedience brought about sinful results that included his inclination to rule over women from then on, and her fearful inclination to turn in deference to a man in an attempt to placate him instead of depending on her God. God did not approve of either the sin or the results of that sin. We are to labor to the best of our ability to fight the results of sin in our planet. We shouldn't double down on them and turn them into a burdensome command which God never designed for the original pair at Creation who were both given joint dominion over the planet.

This is especially true under the conditions of the New Covenant, in which God has poured out His Spirit on ALL flesh, regardless of age or gender or ethnic distinctions. It is not a matter of whether man or woman gets to exercise some kind of "authority" in the church. NEITHER gets to do that over their fellow believers.

FYI - women who are Blood Washed and filled with the Holy Spirit absolutely can teach AND should.

As long as they remained with their 'head covering' = which is a husband over them unless they are a widow which case, if they are a young widow , they are encouraged to seek a Holy Spirit filled husband but are not commanded to.

That "covering" Paul said was a woman's own hair. The "covering" had nothing to do with having a husband. And there was the example of the four virgin daughters of Philip who prophesied. They had no husband, but yet were prophesying to men (since that is the very purpose of prophesying to begin with in 1 Cor. 14:3, to "speak edification, and exhortation, and comfort.")

 

[David in NJ]

I just can't communicate well. One of my many flaws. I'll give it one more shot, and then quit:

I am not asking whether women should be allowed to preach to men. I am asking a very specific question about Genesis, and specifically your statement that "something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church."

In your view, does that subjugation referenced in Genesis mean that women should not be preaching in the Church?

My POV(point of view) carries no authority unless i am speaking from God's POV = His Word.

Let us take a LOOK together at the scriptures = starting at Genesis ch3

v16 To the woman He said:

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

v17 To Adam He said:

What do you SEE here?

 

[RedFan]

My POV(point of view) carries no authority unless i am speaking from God's POV = His Word.

Let us take a LOOK together at the scriptures = starting at Genesis ch3

v16 To the woman He said:

“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”

v17 To Adam He said:

What do you SEE here?

I see no answer to my question. Husbands ruling over their wives and female ministers preaching in church are not inconsistent concepts.

 

[David in NJ]

I see no answer to my question. Husbands ruling over their wives and female ministers preaching in church are not inconsistent concepts.

Well, allow me to suggest taking in prayer to the LORD the Genesis account and all the scriptures in the New Testament that Point Right Back to Genesis ch3.

Example: 1 Timothy 2:8-15

I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

 

[David in NJ]

I see no answer to my question. Husbands ruling over their wives and female ministers preaching in church are not inconsistent concepts.

Peace and Blessing be upon you Today in Christ Jesus our LORD

 

[RedFan]

Well, allow me to suggest taking in prayer to the LORD the Genesis account and all the scriptures in the New Testament that Point Right Back to Genesis ch3.

Example: 1 Timothy 2:8-15

I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

I don't really care that Paul (he doesn't say "The Lord does not;" he says "I do not") permits or doesn't permit. Paul is a product of his times. And the fact that Adam was formed before Eve tells us nothing about whether women should or shouldn't preach in Church. Both Adam and Eve disobeyed God's commandment not to eat the fruit, and are equally guilty of that sin. regardless if one was deceived and the other just stupidly went along. Paul's logic is abysmal here. He would have been better off citing the verses you cited.

As to the woman being saved in childbearing, I take that as an indication Paul is speaking about married women only here. The rest of the chapter suggests a similar mindset.

 

[David in NJ]

I don't really care that Paul (he doesn't say "The Lord does not;" he says "I do not") permits or doesn't permit. Paul is a product of his times. And the fact that Adam was formed before Eve tells us nothing about whether women should or shouldn't preach in Church. Both Adam and Eve disobeyed God's commandment not to eat the fruit, and are equally guilty of that sin. regardless if one was deceived and the other just stupidly went along. Paul's logic is abysmal here. He would have been better off citing the verses you cited.

As to the woman being saved in childbearing, I take that as an indication Paul is speaking about married women only here. The rest of the chapter suggests a similar mindset.

Well, then you have established your own answer to your own question.

FYI - satan has never stopped using his technique of deception that he took over humanity with since the Garden
He loves for women to teach and usurp authority over a man

Maybe return to Post #225

 

[RedFan]

Well, then you have established your own answer to your own question.

FYI - satan has never stopped using his technique of deception that he took over humanity with since the Garden
He loves for women to teach and usurp authority over a man

Maybe return to Post #225

I like Post #225.

How about a female President? Would that violate the Genesis no-authority-over-men prescription? (Not Paul's prescription. Genesis's prescription.)

 

[David in NJ]

I like Post #225.

How about a female President? Would that violate the Genesis no-authority-over-men prescription? (Not Paul's prescription. Genesis's prescription.)

Would we both not GREATLY desire a God fearing woman over the past two male Presidents?

Vote for 'Deborah' the woman of Faith, Courage and Strength in God.

Michelle Bachman = absolutely

What if God is judging us with these last six Presidents???

Thus the URGENT need for God's People everywhere to CRY OUT in Prayer.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It goes beyond the scope of that text to say that the older women should ONLY teach the younger women to love their husbands and children, and never to teach a male anything.

Woman cannot teach men as this is having authority over men and it violates scripture when they do that.
See 1 Timothy 3:1-13, Titus 1:6-9, and 1 Timothy 2:12,13.

God's Word does not contradict itself, so women admonishing others does not mean it's OK for women to be deacons, pastors, or church leaders.

 

[RedFan]

Would we both not GREATLY desire a God fearing woman over the past two male Presidents?

I sure would! But do you interpret Genesis to forbid it? (I'm just trying to probe the limits of your comment in #222 that "something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church." JUST in the Chruch? Or everywhere?)

 

[David in NJ]

I sure would! But do you interpret Genesis to forbid it? (I'm just trying to probe the limits of your comment in #222 that "something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church." JUST in the Chruch? Or everywhere?)

i am not into legalism but neither do i advocate unbridled freedoms that would say: "anything a man can do a woman can do"

Legalism would say "Genesis does not permit it."

The Whole of Scripture says: Look at Deborah and Pheobe

When "no man is willing" God is able to raise UP a woman...............especially outside the church

Speak up and present your case—yes, let them take counsel together.
Who foretold this long ago?
Who announced it from ancient times?
Was it not I, the LORD?
There is no other God but Me,
a righteous God and Savior;
there is none but Me.

 

[Johann]

I sure would! But do you interpret Genesis to forbid it? (I'm just trying to probe the limits of your comment in #222 that "something ocurred in Genesis that, to this day, has subjugated women to never exercise authority over a man in the Church." JUST in the Chruch? Or everywhere?)

1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
1Ti 2:14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
1Ti 2:15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

The pulpit is no place for a woman.
J.

 

[Ziggy]

Jezebel..

I never was much into the women's lib thing. I think women have enough hats to wear.
Now if Adam had told Eve to eat the fruit, then the shoe would be on the other foot.
Adam was not decieved and yet he listened to his wife.
You think he would of said something like, hey, that's not a good idea. But he went along knowingly.
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Jer 7:23
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer 7:24
But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Rev 2:20
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

I believe if God calls a woman to teach then she should follow that calling. But God made women to be mom's. And mom's should tach their kids before they teach others.
I think being a teacher in the biblical sense means to have the authority in the church. Not like a sunday school teacher or a mom.

Now the bible say that now there is neither male nor female but we are all regarded as equal in Christ.
But if a woman doesn't have Christ as the head and goes out teaching her own doctrine then that leads to eating fruit we should stay away from.
If you read the story of Jezebel, she basically wore the pants in the house and toldher husband what to do. Not like Job who told his wife that even though she said he should curse God and die, he rebuked her and trusted God.

Maybe Adam should of met Job...

We live in a diferent today and I see a lot more women in positions of power. And I can't say that that's making anything better, political speaking. I see more women wanting to have careers and live in the man's world, rather than staying home and raising good law abiding citizens with critical thinking skills. And allowing the government to raise their kids.
Just look at the crime and rebellion happening today.
I think women gave up the good thing just to feel more important.
But in my honest opinion I don't think anything is more important than raising your children, having a happy marriage, and caring for your aging parents.

I've lived in both worlds. I prefer the mom to the machine operator or truck driver. But in todays world the options are getting harder.
It takes two people working just to pay the bills and put food on the table.
I believe it's intentional to break up the family unit so the government can have control over every aspect of your life.
Including raising your children.

Kids need moms and dads. Sometimes one has to be both.

I think if women stopped trying to be men, and men stopped trying to be women, we might get back to a little bit of normalcy and commonsense.
But that's just my opinion.
Hugs