Working to repent

[One 2 question]

Just like the thief on the cross!

Do you think it's more to do with the next part of our journey than thus current one. This guy next to Jesus was redeemed by Him obviously not for this life.

The next age is an exciting one hey. After all those that are redeemed, when all the Gentiles have been saved.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved.Rom 11:25&26

Then we will reign with Christ as kings and priests in the next age. Yay!

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:9&10

 

[Archie]

The Son of God incarnated Himself and died on the cross to redeem people.

Because of this sacrifice, Christians don't need to work to go to Heavens.

However, what if a Christian truly believes in Jesus and gives Him his life, but later commits a big sin? Like adultery, grand theft, murder, or rape...

Is that Christian immediately forgiven without doing anything? Without repenting? If that Christian does not need to work, then why being good? Is morality pointless? Does God send sinful people to Heavens because He died for them and so forgave them anyway? So Christians murderers will go to Heavens?

Or does that Christian need to work to repent? Do penance? Be purified? Go through Purgatory?

Some people say that actually this Christian was never really saved. They say true faith leads to good works.
However, that Christian actually had true faith, yet he still commits a big sin. How do you explain that some Christians really have faith in Jesus-Christ, but they still commit big sins?

King David was an adulterer and a murderer. And while the bible does not say as much, its a very real possibility that his initial interactions with Bathsheba were not consensual. And yet, God declared him a man after His own heart.

1 Samuel 13
"But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that -- which the LORD commanded thee."

God chooses David
1 Samuel 16
"..for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

God declares that His Spirit would not depart from him

1 Samuel 16
"Then Samuel took -- the horn of oil, and anointed -- him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward."

David sins grievously, but remains a man after Gods own heart

1 Kings 15
"Nevertheless for David's sake did the LORD his God give him a lamp in Jerusalem, to set up his son after him, and to establish Jerusalem: Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite."

David eventually repented of his sin against God.
And he paid dearly for his transgression.

2 Samuel 12
"Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ ”
So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

But God never departed from David, or repented of the promises that He made to Him.

2 Samuel 7
"When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever."

Can we establish any doctrine upon these verses? Perhaps, maybe someone already has, I wouldn't know, I'm no theologian.

Can we argue endlessly over such doctrines, established or not?
Oh yes we can, and do.

I see several things in these passages that in my simple mind, and with my simple faith, cannot be argued.

God chooses whom He will.

God gives His Spirit unto whom He chooses without repentance.

Whom God chooses, God will correct and lead to repentance.

God sees the heart.

God reveals His heart to men.

And Gods heart, is that of a Father to His children

 

[One 2 question]

King David was an adulterer and a murderer. And while the bible does not say as much, its a very real possibility that his initial interactions with Bathsheba were not consensual. And yet, God declared him a man after His own heart.

1 Samuel 13
"But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that -- which the LORD commanded thee."

God chooses David
1 Samuel 16
"..for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

God declares that His Spirit would not depart from him

1 Samuel 16
"Then Samuel took -- the horn of oil, and anointed -- him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward."

David sins grievously, but remains a man after Gods own heart

1 Kings 15
"Nevertheless for David's sake did the LORD his God give him a lamp in Jerusalem, to set up his son after him, and to establish Jerusalem: Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite."

David eventually repented of his sin against God.
And he paid dearly for his transgression.

2 Samuel 12
"Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ ”
So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

But God never departed from David, or repented of the promises that He made to Him.

2 Samuel 7
"When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever."

Can we establish any doctrine upon these verses? Perhaps, maybe someone already has, I wouldn't know, I'm no theologian.

Can we argue endlessly over such doctrines, established or not?
Oh yes we can, and do.

I see several things in these passages that in my simple mind, and with my simple faith, cannot be argued.

God chooses whom He will.

God gives His Spirit unto whom He chooses without repentance.

Whom God chooses, God will correct and lead to repentance.

God sees the heart.

God reveals His heart to men.

And Gods heart, is that of a Father to His children

Yes, God has a plan and He sticks to it. Who could frustrate His will? What a script He prepared and carried out with David. What about the script He conceived for the life of Joseph. Absolutely amazing.

Then to apply this truth to you and I. The sovereign Creator has prepared a unique script for us with everything predetermined for His ultimate pleasure and glory!

 

[Archie]

Yes, God has a plan and He sticks to it. Who could frustrate His will? What a script He prepared and carried out with David. What about the script He conceived for the life of Joseph. Absolutely amazing.

Then to apply this truth to you and I. The sovereign Creator has prepared a unique script for us with everything predetermined for His ultimate pleasure and glory!

Amen and Amen

For His own pleasure, and to His own Glory, to the glorification of His Unique Son, and for the justification, sanctification and eventual glorification of His own peculiar children.

 

[Jack]

Do you think it's more to do with the next part of our journey than thus current one. This guy next to Jesus was redeemed by Him obviously not for this life.

The next age is an exciting one hey. After all those that are redeemed, when all the Gentiles have been saved.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved.Rom 11:25&26

Then we will reign with Christ as kings and priests in the next age. Yay!

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Rev 5:9&10

But you LOVE living outside the Bible, remember?

 

[Jack]

Yes, God has a plan and He sticks to it. Who could frustrate His will? What a script He prepared and carried out with David. What about the script He conceived for the life of Joseph. Absolutely amazing.

Then to apply this truth to you and I. The sovereign Creator has prepared a unique script for us with everything predetermined for His ultimate pleasure and glory!

But you said you're going to Hell FOREVER! Remember?

 

[Jack]

The Son of God incarnated Himself and died on the cross to redeem people.

Here is an answer. Jesus does the redeeming of those His Father chooses. Then Their Spirit does the long work of transformation/sanctification.

It has much less to do with us and what we do than what most people try to make out.

Like a gem hunter. They find a large rock they know has a gem hidden within then takes it to their workshop.

What he does with it is up to him. If he chooses to leave it untouched and it grows mold, moss, dust and cobwebs on it then that's back on its finder and owner. Jesus has no obligation to do anything with those He redeems. Just as He had no obligation to go look for it in the first place.

His obligation is only to His Father and His will. It is pretty simple don't you think?

No Scripture of course. Oh that's right, you're enjoying life outside God of the Bible. You said so.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Son of God incarnated Himself and died on the cross to redeem people.

Because of this sacrifice, Christians don't need to work to go to Heavens.

However, what if a Christian truly believes in Jesus and gives Him his life, but later commits a big sin? Like adultery, grand theft, murder, or rape...

Is that Christian immediately forgiven without doing anything? Without repenting? If that Christian does not need to work, then why being good? Is morality pointless? Does God send sinful people to Heavens because He died for them and so forgave them anyway? So Christians murderers will go to Heavens?

Or does that Christian need to work to repent? Do penance? Be purified? Go through Purgatory?

Some people say that actually this Christian was never really saved. They say true faith leads to good works.
However, that Christian actually had true faith, yet he still commits a big sin. How do you explain that some Christians really have faith in Jesus-Christ, but they still commit big sins?

Yes, even King David, a man after God`s own heart was seduced into sin. The point is that David did repent and continued to follow God. We, as believers in the Body of Christ, can make a great sin, (in our eyes) but after true repentance we need to continue to follow the Lord. It is only when there is continual sin and not continual repenting that the person loves the sin more than working with the Holy Spirit to be an overcomer.

 

[Debp]

Yes, even King David, a man after God`s own heart was seduced into sin. The point is that David did repent and continued to follow God. We, as believers in the Body of Christ, can make a great sin, (in our eyes) but after true repentance we need to continue to follow the Lord. It is only when there is continual sin and not continual repenting that the person loves the sin more than working with the Holy Spirit to be an overcomer.

That's the key to it all....the Holy Spirit will convict a true believer of sin. If someone isn't really born again, they have no desire to get back into fellowship with God. @ArkangeMikail

 

[Archie]

Working to repent​

No need to WORK!

Romans 10:8-10
8 If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Just like the thief on the cross!

No need to work?

There is an absolute need to work, and work hard, to work like you mean it, like it matters, for it does.

I'm sure that you meant there is no need to work for your salvation, and you are absolutely correct.

But God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, and that's work.

A disciple is disciplined, its right there in the word. Self discipline is hard work.

Paul says we should make our calling and election sure, this is work. He did not mean that we should set around meditating on the goodness and grace of God, that's not work, for me at least, its usually the highlight of my day

We were appointed by God to good works, that we should walk in them, good works are often very inconvenient.

Christ speaks of labor often, and with great emphasis. Labor for this, work for that, knock, seek, ask, pray, fast, do do do do do do unto others.

All things should be done in the Spirit of course, as we are led, as we submit. But to suggest that the work is done, and nothing remains but to sit back and bask in the glory of His salvation is incorrect. There is plenty of very difficult work to be done, and we should be about our fathers business continually.

Please don't misunderstand me, I presume you know all of this quite well, I responded to your post for the benefit of those who may not have yet fully grasped this spiritual reality.

Repentance, true repentance, may actually be the hardest work that many people ever do, especially if they have been in bondage to a particular sin for a very long time.

 

[Jack]

No need to work?

There is an absolute need to work, and work hard, to work like you mean it, like it matters, for it does.

I'm sure that you meant there is no need to work for your salvation, and you are absolutely correct.

That's exactly what I meant.

But God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him, and that's work.

A disciple is disciplined, its right there in the word. Self discipline is hard work.

Paul says we should make our calking and election sure, this is work. He did not mean that we should set around meditating on the goodness and grace of God, that's not work, for me at least, its usually the highlight of my day

We were appointed by God to good works, that we should walk in them, good works are often very inconvenient.

Christ speaks of labor often, and with great emphasis. Labor for this, work for that, knock, seek, ask, pray, fast, do do do do do do unto others.

All things should be done in the Spirit of course, as we are led, as we submit. But to suggest that the work is done, and nothing remains but to sit back and bask in the glory of His salvation is incorrect. There is plenty of very difficult work to be done, and we should be about our fathers business continually.

Please don't misunderstand me, I presume you know all of this quite well, I responded to your post for the benefit of those who may not have yet fully grasped this spiritual reality.

 

[Debp]

For many of us, it is a blessed life to walk with the Lord day by day...(walk in the Spirit.) So that's why I don't consider it work.

 

[Archie]

That's exactly what I meant.

I presumed this to be the case, thank you for the confirmation.
Lots of very strange ideas are posted in these forums.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Repentance to me is consistently saying sorry and doing something to make amends.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Son of God incarnated Himself and died on the cross to redeem people.

Because of this sacrifice, Christians don't need to work to go to Heavens.

However, what if a Christian truly believes in Jesus and gives Him his life, but later commits a big sin? Like adultery, grand theft, murder, or rape...

Is that Christian immediately forgiven without doing anything? Without repenting? If that Christian does not need to work, then why being good? Is morality pointless? Does God send sinful people to Heavens because He died for them and so forgave them anyway? So Christians murderers will go to Heavens?

Or does that Christian need to work to repent? Do penance? Be purified? Go through Purgatory?

Some people say that actually this Christian was never really saved. They say true faith leads to good works.
However, that Christian actually had true faith, yet he still commits a big sin. How do you explain that some Christians really have faith in Jesus-Christ, but they still commit big sins?

You asked whether growing in Christ means you “must work.”
That’s an important question, especially for someone coming out of Islam, where everything depends on your deeds.

But Christianity works from the opposite direction.

“For in Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28).

Our entire identity—our life, our repentance, our hope—is wrapped up in Christ Himself.

1. Repentance is not mainly about listing individual sins.​

Yes, we turn from sinful actions. But the heart of repentance is turning from a whole life lived in enmity with God—turning from rejecting Christ to embracing Him.

Repentance is a change of direction, not a catalog of mistakes.
It’s stepping out of self-rule and turning toward the One who loved you and called you.

2. True repentance produces fruit; it isn’t the fruit that saves.​

When we turn to Christ, certain changes naturally follow, because our whole direction has changed.

We begin to love what we once hated and hate what we once loved.
We move from “my way seems right to me” to “Your will be done.”

This fruit is real—but it is not the cause of salvation. It is the evidence of salvation.

3. There are only two commandments, and neither can save you.​

Jesus summed up the whole law:

• Love God
• Love your neighbor

But that love cannot save you.
Only Jesus’ perfect work—His obedience, His death, His resurrection—can reconcile you to God.

Your obedience does not earn God’s favor; it flows from already having received it.

4. Love—not fear—now motivates our lives.​

A Muslim lives under fear: fear of judgment, fear of failing, fear of not doing enough.

A Christian lives under grace.

You obey not to avoid wrath, but because:

“He first loved us.”

Fear is cast out by love.
You do not work for salvation.
You work from salvation.

5. So do you “work” to increase Christ in you?​

Not in the sense of earning or maintaining salvation.
But as Christ lives in you, love for Him grows—and love expresses itself in action.

You grow because He holds you.
You repent because He called you.
You walk because He gives you life.

You are not earning Christ.
Christ has already made you His own.

 

[rvmb]

You asked whether growing in Christ means you “must work.”
That’s an important question, especially for someone coming out of Islam, where everything depends on your deeds.

But Christianity works from the opposite direction.


Our entire identity—our life, our repentance, our hope—is wrapped up in Christ Himself.

1. Repentance is not mainly about listing individual sins.​

Yes, we turn from sinful actions. But the heart of repentance is turning from a whole life lived in enmity with God—turning from rejecting Christ to embracing Him.

Repentance is a change of direction, not a catalog of mistakes.
It’s stepping out of self-rule and turning toward the One who loved you and called you.

2. True repentance produces fruit; it isn’t the fruit that saves.​

When we turn to Christ, certain changes naturally follow, because our whole direction has changed.

We begin to love what we once hated and hate what we once loved.
We move from “my way seems right to me” to “Your will be done.”

This fruit is real—but it is not the cause of salvation. It is the evidence of salvation.

3. There are only two commandments, and neither can save you.​

Jesus summed up the whole law:

• Love God
• Love your neighbor

But that love cannot save you.
Only Jesus’ perfect work—His obedience, His death, His resurrection—can reconcile you to God.

Your obedience does not earn God’s favor; it flows from already having received it.

4. Love—not fear—now motivates our lives.​

A Muslim lives under fear: fear of judgment, fear of failing, fear of not doing enough.

A Christian lives under grace.

You obey not to avoid wrath, but because:


Fear is cast out by love.
You do not work for salvation.
You work from salvation.

5. So do you “work” to increase Christ in you?​

Not in the sense of earning or maintaining salvation.
But as Christ lives in you, love for Him grows—and love expresses itself in action.

You grow because He holds you.
You repent because He called you.
You walk because He gives you life.

You are not earning Christ.
Christ has already made you His own.

"""Not in the sense of earning or maintaining salvation."""
What writings of Paul teach that salvation must be earned or maintained ?

 

[Hazelelponi]

"""Not in the sense of earning or maintaining salvation."""
What writings of Paul teach that salvation must be earned or maintained ?

None. That's why I was clear.

 

[rvmb]

None. That's why I was clear.

Correct :)
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Eph 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Hazelelponi]

.....

 

[Pet]

The Son of God incarnated Himself and died on the cross to redeem people.

Because of this sacrifice, Christians don't need to work to go to Heavens.

However, what if a Christian truly believes in Jesus and gives Him his life, but later commits a big sin? Like adultery, grand theft, murder, or rape...

Is that Christian immediately forgiven without doing anything? Without repenting? If that Christian does not need to work, then why being good? Is morality pointless? Does God send sinful people to Heavens because He died for them and so forgave them anyway? So Christians murderers will go to Heavens?

Or does that Christian need to work to repent? Do penance? Be purified? Go through Purgatory?

Some people say that actually this Christian was never really saved. They say true faith leads to good works.
However, that Christian actually had true faith, yet he still commits a big sin. How do you explain that some Christians really have faith in Jesus-Christ, but they still commit big sins?

No big or little sin. Sin is sin.
I beleive that we need to repent daily (of inward sin, omission etc.).
I have had triggers and (forgotten) past sins revealed to me, in dreams etc. Then i repent