Wrath vs Tribulation vs Judgement

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Zao is life

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WRATH

(Greek) orgḗ ("wrath"): properly, desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy), violent passion (ire, or (justifiable) abhorrence); by implication punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

Mark 3:1
"And looking around on them with anger (orgḗ), being grieved because of the hardness of their hearts, He said to the man, Stretch out your hand! And he stretched it out. And his hand was restored whole, like the other."

The word orgḗ is also found in 1 Thessalonians 5:9:
"For God has not appointed us to wrath (orgḗ), but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

HISTORIC EVENTS

Reading the Bible, we see that God's wrath has been poured out upon people and nations at various times over the course of human history, but it has not necessarily been poured out upon the whole world in each case, for example:

Exodus 15:3-7
BEGIN QUOTE
"The LORD is a Man of war; Jehovah is His name.

Pharaoh's chariots and his army He has thrown into the sea; his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red Sea. The depths have covered them; they sank into the bottom like a stone.

Your right hand, O LORD, has become glorious in power. Your right hand, O LORD, has dashed the enemy in pieces. And in the greatness of Your excellency You have overthrown them that rose up against You.

You sent forth Your wrath (Hebrew: chârôn), consuming them like stubble."
END QUOTE

chârôn: a burning of anger: - sore {displeasure} fierce ({-ness}) {fury} (fierce) wrath (-ful).

--1,500 years later--

Luke 21:20-24
BEGIN QUOTE
"And when you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that its destruction has come. And let those in Judea flee to the mountains. And those in its midst, let them go out. And those in the open spaces, let them not go into her.

For these are the days of vengeance (ekdíkēsis), that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

But woe to those who are with child, and to those suckling in those days! For there shall be great distress (anánkē) in the land and wrath (orgḗ) on this people.

And they shall fall by the sword's edge. And shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the nations until the times of the nations is fulfilled."
END QUOTE

1 ekdíkēsis: vindication, retribution:--(a-, re-)venge(-ance), punishment.

2 anánkē: constraint (literally or figuratively); by implication, distress:--distress, must needs, (of) necessity(-sary), needeth, needful.

3 orgḗ ("wrath"): properly, desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy), violent passion (ire, or (justifiable) abhorrence); by implication punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

A JUDGEMENT, NOT “THE” JUDGEMENT

Since God’s wrath is always produced by God’s burning anger (thymós in the Greek; chârôn in the Hebrew), God's wrath being poured out upon a people is always a judgement upon the recipients of it (a judgement, but not necessarily "the final judgement" of God),

The first time in the Bible that we read about a final judgement is in the account of the flood in Genesis, when only the elect (Noah and his family) were saved.

The last time we read about a final judgement is in the Revelation, where we read about fire coming down from heaven and destroying the armies of the rebellious nations who had surrounded the camp of the saints (Revelation 20:9).

We also read about God's wrath coming upon the nations in the seven last plagues or “bowls of God's wrath”, and it's noteworthy that only the seventh bowl uses the word orgḗ:

Revelation 16:19
"And the great city came to be into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell.

And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the anger (thymós) of His wrath (orgḗ)."

thymós: passion (as if breathing hard):--fierceness, indignation, wrath.

TRIBULATION

It’s quite obvious that at any point where a people experiences the wrath of God being poured out upon them, this would be a period of intense tribulation for them.

However, a period of tribulation being experienced by any people may or may not be what they are experiencing as a result of God's wrath (the tribulation the Christians experienced under the hand of Nero was not as a result of God's wrath coming upon them, not was the tribulation that God’s people were experiencing in Egypt under the hand of Pharaoh).

Tribulation is merely a word which describes the experience of humans, whether they be believers or unbelievers, Jews or Gentiles; and there is no "once-off" experience of tribulation.

In the New Testament, only two out of all the verses mentioning tribulation is NOT talking about the tribulation that was faced by, or would be faced by the saints, and we'll come to that in a moment.

The word tribulation (thlîpsis) is used in Matthew 13:21:

"But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when tribulation (thlîpsis) or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately stumbles."

Also in Matthew 24:9:

"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation (thlîpsis) and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake."

It's also found in many other verses where it's referring to something that either would be, or had become the experience saints, for example in this verse:

John 16:33
"I have spoken these things to you so that you might have peace in Me. In the world you shall have tribulation (thlîpsis), but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world."

There is no "once-off" experience of tribulation.

Any period during which any unbelievers have experienced tribulation (for example any period of persecution Jews have experienced since, and following, A.D 70 can legitimately be called a tribulation or even a great tribulation

However, with the exception of Romans 2:9 and 2 Thessalonians 1:6 (and unless Matthew 24:21 which talks about great tribulation is a third exception to the rule),

every single reference to tribulation in the New Testament is talking about the tribulation of those who believe in Christ.

GREAT TRIBULATION

In the New Testament there are only three places where the Greek word mégas (great) is used as an adjective to describe the intensity of the thlîpsis (tribulation): Matthew 24:21; Revelation 2:22; and Revelation 7:14.

Revelation 7:14
"These are the ones who came out of great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis) and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb."

Revelation 2:22
"Behold, I am throwing her (the false prophetess Jezebel) into a bed, and those who commit adultery with her into great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis), unless they repent of their deeds."

Matthew 24:21
"for then shall be great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be."

Many believe that Matthew 24:21 is referring to the tribulation experienced by the Jews (not the saints) in A.D 70.

In the case of the Jews, A.D 70 would most certainly have been a period of great tribulation for the Jews (as was the tribulation Jews experienced during WWII). However, the tribulation experienced by Christians under the hand of Nero could also be described as a great tribulation.

Nevertheless, only three times does the New Testament talk about great (mégas) tribulation (thlîpsis); and the two of these are unambiguously and beyond dispute talking about a great tribulation as the experience of Christians (Revelation 2:22; and Revelation 7:14).

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WRATH AND TRIBULATION

Understanding the difference between the Biblical themes of “wrath” and of “tribulation” is important, because any period of great tribulation experienced by saints (whether under Nero or any other) is not experienced as a result of God’s wrath.

Therefore referring to the seven bowls of wrath (which we read about in Revelation 16) as “the great tribulation”, has resulted in faulty eschatology. (Maybe even faulty theology).
 

Zao is life

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THE WRATH OF GOD VS THE SWORD OF GOD

Revelation 19:21
"And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

Revelation 19:15
“And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd (ποιμαίνω poimaínō) them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.”

ποιμαίνω poimaínō, poy-mah'-ee-no [Strong's Greek 4165]
from 4166; to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser):--feed (cattle), rule.

04166
ποιμήν poimḗn, poy-mane' a shepherd (literally or figuratively):--shepherd, pastor.

John 6:63
“It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

Ephesians 6:17
“And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

Hebrews 4:12
“For the word of God is active, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

Revelation 1:16
“And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shines in his strength.”

Revelation 2:12
“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things says he which has the sharp sword with two edges.”

Psalm 149:5-9
“Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise all of you the LORD.”

Revelation 20:4
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Matthew 19:28
“And Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
 

GEN2REV

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Wow. That's a lot.

Admit I didn't read ENTIRE two posts, but I THINK I read enough to conclude:

So, can we agree that the Wrath and the Judgment are the same, and the Tribulation will come immediately prior?
 

Zao is life

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Wow. That's a lot.

Admit I didn't read ENTIRE two posts, but I THINK I read enough to conclude:

So, can we agree that the Wrath and the Judgment are the same, and the Tribulation will come immediately prior?
It's OK you don't have to read the whole of the first post if you don't want to, but if you do, then I can answer the questions, because you probably won't be asking the same questions if you read the whole post.