WW3: What Should/Will It Look Like?

[Timtofly]

Just because Premil has an alternative view to the Truth, doesn't mean that it is the reality.

The Premillennial view is the only view written in Revelation. It is Amil who have the alternate viewpoint.

Using the word Truth means what exactly?

Does the fact someone decided to place a chapter break, by a consensus approval, change the Truth? It is Amil who take that a step further in private interpretation and read more into that break than is necessary.

 

[Earburner]

The Premillennial view is the only view written in Revelation. It is Amil who have the alternate viewpoint.

Using the word Truth means what exactly?

Does the fact someone decided to place a chapter break, by a consensus approval, change the Truth? It is Amil who take that a step further in private interpretation and read more into that break than is necessary.

Jesus Himself is "the Truth", and Jesus' testimony is "the Spirit of prophecy".

Therefore one must read and interpret Revelation through the gospels and the epistles, for a precise understanding of Revelation, which is strictly by His Holy Spirit, and not by the wisdom of men. 1 Cor. 2:5

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus Himself is "the Truth", and Jesus' testimony is "the Spirit of prophecy".

Therefore one must read and interpret Revelation through the gospels and the epistles, for a precise understanding of Revelation, which is strictly by His Holy Spirit, and not by the wisdom of men. 1 Cor. 2:5

There is nothing mentioned any where in the NT that the 1,000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 is symbolic nor anything other than a literal 1,000 years. In fact Peter told you all to not be ignorant about the Day of the Lord. Peter mentioned a 1,000 year time frame.

To state otherwise is only putting your personal interpretation above Scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

You don't understand the dilemma and the intensity of what the MoB entails.

And you keep avoiding the fact that people do avoid the mark. The two witnesses, the 144k, those who are raptured. None of them take the mark and some live through the entire GT.

 

[Earburner]

And you keep avoiding the fact that people do avoid the mark. The two witnesses, the 144k, those who are raptured. None of them take the mark and some live through the entire GT.

I did show plainly in post #97 and #99 that there will be both the saved and the unsaved who will refuse to be involved with the MoB.
I also did show how and why that ONLY born again Christians will have the victory over it, whereas all others who are hold outs, being "survivalists" and "patriots", will cave into the demands and needs of their flesh.
Many professing "religious" christians will "fall away" from faith in Jesus at that time, aka the "foolish virgins".

"Remember Lot's wife".

Edit:
Of course the two witnesses will not be involved with the MoB, they were John the baptist and Jesus.

The same with the 144,000, the "elect" of Israel, they were all those who were of faith in "the Promise to come", while living their lives out under the OC.

 

[Earburner]

There is nothing mentioned any where in the NT that the 1,000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 is symbolic nor anything other than a literal 1,000 years. In fact Peter told you all to not be ignorant about the Day of the Lord. Peter mentioned a 1,000 year time frame.

To state otherwise is only putting your personal interpretation above Scripture.

You should be able to read in the KJV 2 Peter 3:7-10 and understand, that the key word for such a long length of time "AS a thousand years", is that of God's "longsuffering" to usward.....

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The deepest desire of God is to hope that all would come to repentance and be saved.
Though God is not willing that He should lose anyone, even we know that is NOT the reality. But still, His Age of Grace continues, as long as men still believe and have faith that He is real.

 

[Earburner]

There is nothing mentioned any where in the NT that the 1,000 years mentioned in Revelation 20 is symbolic nor anything other than a literal 1,000 years. In fact Peter told you all to not be ignorant about the Day of the Lord. Peter mentioned a 1,000 year time frame.

Previously, I pointed out what Jesus said about His return in the physical Glory of His Immortality from heaven. I repeat:
Mat. 25:5,13,14,19; Luke 20:9,16; see also 2 Peter 3:3-4, 9, 13,15.

So, to all, please do not be "ignorant".
Remember Lot's wife. Luke 17:28-32.

2 Thes. 1:7-10 will be a simultaneous event of destruction to ALL the unsaved, and redemption for ALL the saved,.....in THAT same Day.....
"WHEN" He shall come, in flaming fire!!! Luke 17:29.

Heb. 12[29] For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Earburner]

Once this latest prophetic event of WW3, in the Euphrates region (KJV Rev. 9:13-19) is fulfilled, it WILL BE the deciding factor of God to end is Age of Grace. Rev. 9:20-21.

If such an event is in a chronological fashion, as it is proving out to be, with the COVID scorpion sting taking place just before it, then Rev. 10:1-7 reveals it. There are two statements therein that prove it to be so:
1. Vs. 6 ....that there should be time no longer:
2. Vs. 7 ....the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
In paraphrase, we can read it this way: the time allotted by God, for the mystery of God, will have finished.
Which is to say, that the time of God's longsuffering, in the extension of His time of Grace to usward. WILL BE NO MORE!! **

What to expect:
The MoB will be revealed (in 2024) and then issued on a global scale, through the UN (the Image).
The separation of the sheep from the goats will commence, through the MoB, which will be Digitized money, with a personal Digital ID.

** Note: If you will, you can understand it for yourself, by reading the KJV on line, searching the NT scriptures. By using the search word: "mystery", all the scriptures describing "the mystery of God" will come up. Then LET the Holy Spirit of God reveal it to you.

 

[Timtofly]

You should be able to read in the KJV 2 Peter 3:7-10 and understand, that the key word for such a long length of time "AS a thousand years", is that of God's "longsuffering" to usward.....

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The deepest desire of God is to hope that all would come to repentance and be saved.
Though God is not willing that He should lose anyone, even we know that is NOT the reality. But still, His Age of Grace continues, as long as men still believe and have faith that He is real.

God's longsuffering is on man's thousand year time scale. You think God is longsuffering for a 24 hour period?

Sin has continued for almost 6,000 years; that is God's longsuffering. The Day of the Lord is also a 1,000 year day of rest, because God is still longsuffering.

You think God is only symbolically longsuffering?

 

[ewq1938]

I did show plainly in post #97 and #99 that there will be both the saved and the unsaved who will refuse to be involved with the MoB.
I also did show how and why that ONLY born again Christians will have the victory over it, whereas all others who are hold outs, being "survivalists" and "patriots", will cave into the demands and needs of their flesh.
Many professing "religious" christians will "fall away" from faith in Jesus at that time, aka the "foolish virgins".

"Remember Lot's wife".

Edit:
Of course the two witnesses will not be involved with the MoB, they were John the baptist and Jesus.

The same with the 144,000, the "elect" of Israel, they were all those who were of faith in "the Promise to come", while living their lives out under the OC.

Both the two witnesses and the 144k are future groups who will live in the coming GT. The two witnesses are more than two people. Jesus and John aren't part of them.

 

[ewq1938]

What to expect:
The MoB will be revealed (in 2024) and then issued on a global scale, through the UN (the Image).
The separation of the sheep from the goats will commence, through the MoB, which will be Digitized money, with a personal Digital ID.

Those things already exist and no MOB yet. The MOB is a mark in the right hand OR forehead. Neither digitalized money or a digital ID matches that at all.

 

[Earburner]

God's longsuffering is on man's thousand year time scale. You think God is longsuffering for a 24 hour period?

Sin has continued for almost 6,000 years; that is God's longsuffering. The Day of the Lord is also a 1,000 year day of rest, because God is still longsuffering.

You think God is only symbolically longsuffering?

The end of the world has always been in God's hands alone. As Jesus said, ONLY the Father knows when the end of the world shall be.
So then, If it were not for God's secretive plan * from the beginning of the world, for Jesus, His only begotten Son, to be the sacrificial Lamb for our sins, God would have ENDED the world long ago.
*(the mystery of God).
Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Heb. 9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

From the sacrificial death of Jesus, and by His resurrection, the world continues on ONLY by God's Grace through Jesus. Whereby there is no disclosed time limit on it, except when the time comes when God sees that people no longer believe that He is, and therefore no longer do they repent towards God, by His Grace through Jesus.
Heb. 11
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

With WW3 taking place in the Euphrates region, God the Father is taking notice right now!! Rev. 9:20-21
[20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
[21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

I most assuredly am not side stepping the undisclosed length of time for God's longsuffering. As I said, the scriptures reveal, that if it were not for His plan of salvation for us through Jesus, He would have ended the world long ago, as it was revealed in Heb. 9:26.

The figurative 1000 years has been about God's extended Grace through Jesus, nothing more and nothing less.
All other fabrications and concoctions are derived through the wisdom of men.
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

If everyone claims they are right, then who was in the wrong? Why don't we let the Holy Spirit speak instead?

 

[Earburner]

Both the two witnesses and the 144k are future groups who will live in the coming GT. The two witnesses are more than two people. Jesus and John aren't part of them.

Though this is hard for many to understand, those such as Elijah, Abraham, Moses and the like, being "the elect" of God, lived by faith in "the Promise to come", but could not, nor were they allowed, to have the permanency of the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit.
KJV John 7:38-39
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So then, the best that God could do for them. while "under" the OC., was to have their names in "Remembrance" before God. Malachi 3:16.
We see each of THEM receiving their just reward of the Gift of God's Holy Spirit (white robes), in Rev. 6:9-11.
All of them are indeed the "first fruits" of God, being the symbolic number of 144,000 out of the tribes of Israel, while living UNDER the OC.

Since Jesus death and resurrection (glorification), their names are now written in the Book of Life, who is Jesus Himself.

As for the two witnesses, John the Baptist and Jesus:
God the Father was the witness through John of Who Jesus is: "the Lamb of God...."
Jesus is the witness of Who God the Father is. There are no greater witnesses, that shall live upto the prophetic words of KJV Zech. 4:14.

John was at birth with the Holy Spirit, and Jesus was conceived and born with the Holy Spirit, and upon His baptism, God the Father enjoined Him, thus the understanding of "God in the flesh" among men, who truly was "Emmanuel".
For 1260 days the ministry of JtB and Jesus was a joint ministry of witness to all the world.

 

[Timtofly]

The end of the world has always been in God's hands alone. As Jesus said, ONLY the Father knows when the end of the world shall be.
So then, If it were not for God's secretive plan * from the beginning of the world, for Jesus, His only begotten Son, to be the sacrificial Lamb for our sins, God would have ENDED the world long ago.
*(the mystery of God).
Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Heb. 9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

From the sacrificial death of Jesus, and by His resurrection, the world continues on ONLY by God's Grace through Jesus. Whereby there is no disclosed time limit on it, except when the time comes when God sees that people no longer believe that He is, and therefore no longer do they repent towards God, by His Grace through Jesus.
Heb. 11
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

With WW3 taking place in the Euphrates region, God the Father is taking notice right now!! Rev. 9:20-21
[20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
[21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

I most assuredly am not side stepping the undisclosed length of time for God's longsuffering. As I said, the scriptures reveal, that if it were not for His plan of salvation for us through Jesus, He would have ended the world long ago, as it was revealed in Heb. 9:26.

The figurative 1000 years has been about God's extended Grace through Jesus, nothing more and nothing less.
All other fabrications and concoctions are derived through the wisdom of men.
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

There are no figurative 1,000 years in human existence. Every 1,000 year period has been literal and physical.

Why do you beat around the bush that will not go away, until Jesus hands back a completed creation, that is perfect and without blemish?

There will be 8 1,000 year periods and all of them just as real as the next. You totally deny the 2 Days of the Lord set aside for God. Those days are not fabricated by human theology. It is human theology that claims God does not even know His own creation. So human theology explains away the clear presentation of God's Word.

 

[Earburner]

If everyone claims they are right, then who was in the wrong? Why don't we let the Holy Spirit speak instead?

As I have shown, ever since Pentecost, God's Holy Spirit IS speaking through the NT scriptures about the book of Revelation.**

Unfortunately, the interpretations of those scriptures are being neglected by the "many", who have swallowed the "camel" of the wisdom of men, being only approved by the denominational bible colleges, which is not so much that of "higher learning".
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

**Note: one might say that the "foolish virgins" have the cart before the horse,... because of a "camel".

 

[Earburner]

There are no figurative 1,000 years in human existence. Every 1,000 year period has been literal and physical.

Why do you beat around the bush that will not go away, until Jesus hands back a completed creation, that is perfect and without blemish?

There will be 8 1,000 year periods and all of them just as real as the next. You totally deny the 2 Days of the Lord set aside for God. Those days are not fabricated by human theology. It is human theology that claims God does not even know His own creation. So human theology explains away the clear presentation of God's Word.

I am not talking about man's concepts on Theology. I am pointing to "the testimony" of "The Truth" Himself, who is "the Spirit of prophecy".

The Premil view is promoted by the wisdom of men.
Through "the mind of Christ", that is within all born again Christians, we have the witness of the Holy Spirit's understanding through the gospels and the epistles, of which CLEARLY interprets and explains the book of Revelation, and not vice versa.
Unfortunately, many have been duped by "the wisdom of men".

You and all may assail what I am scripturally proving, but none can corrupt it to prove otherwise.

 

[Earburner]

Those things already exist and no MOB yet. The MOB is a mark in the right hand OR forehead. Neither digitalized money or a digital ID matches that at all.

Then you are not understanding the origin of that number, or the "wise man" who dealt with it.
Go see the number of a man who did have wisdom, and understand that gold today IS MONEY.
1 Kings 10:1-14
[14] Now the weight [amount] of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold.

Now, go research what Universal Basic Income (UBI) is, of why and how they are going to use it on a global scale.

Clue: it has to do with Rev. 9:13-21.

 

[Timtofly]

I am not talking about man's concepts on Theology. I am pointing to "the testimony" of "The Truth" Himself, who is "the Spirit of prophecy".

The Premil view is promoted by the wisdom of men.
Through "the mind of Christ", that is within all born again Christians, we have the witness of the Holy Spirit's understanding through the gospels and the epistles, of which CLEARLY interprets and explains the book of Revelation, and not vice versa.
Unfortunately, many have been duped by "the wisdom of men".

You and all may assail what I am scripturally proving, but none can corrupt it to prove otherwise.

I am not talking about man's theological doctrine of premill additives either.

I am pointing out that you change the Word of Truth with your human opinion you call "spiritual understanding".

You do realize that the book of Revelation was near the last book written, in time?

What you want us to accept is that all the other books were written to clarify a book that had not even been written or sent out to any churches prior to their own distribution.

If John had received the book of Revelation in 20 BC, before Christ was born, you may have a reasonable point to put out there.

No one that I have ever heard, uses Revelation to clarify the other books in the NT. Nor do we really need the other books to clarify Revelation. All writings give us a view of what is coming from their own Holy Spirit led perspective.

But if you want a chronological view of the end times, you certainly would not use the other 26 books to interpret Revelation. Revelation gives us a chronological order of events. The problem is many do not accept the order John gave us, and they want the book to say what they want it to say for some reason or another. Even pre-mill don't always accept the order as given. Then, like you, some say, we cannot even understand Revelation unless we use the other 26 books of the NT to guide us.

You cannot prove from Scripture that we need to view the usage of a thousand in Revelation 20, symbolically. Nor can you prove that we need to place this chapter somewhere else in the book of Revelation to show it is talking about a time period prior to the other chapters in the book. There is a whole doctrine of pre-mill thought, but that has never been my argument. The only point of my pre-mill view is the timing, not the doctrine made by human theological eschatology.

Sure, the other books throughout the OT and NT fill in the blanks of this coming Millennium, that John does not cover. John is not explaining the Millennium. John is just placing the Millennium in his chronological framework. Your interpretation takes other thoughts from Scripture and denies the chronological aspect of Revelation 20, by explaining away what John never emphasized to begin with. The whole book is event and time driven. Not really telling us the "meat" of what happens, but a Revelation through time, and the judgments on humanity up until the end.

 

[Earburner]

I am not talking about man's theological doctrine of premill additives either.

I am pointing out that you change the Word of Truth with your human opinion you call "spiritual understanding".

You do realize that the book of Revelation was near the last book written, in time?

What you want us to accept is that all the other books were written to clarify a book that had not even been written or sent out to any churches prior to their own distribution.

If John had received the book of Revelation in 20 BC, before Christ was born, you may have a reasonable point to put out there.

No one that I have ever heard, uses Revelation to clarify the other books in the NT. Nor do we really need the other books to clarify Revelation. All writings give us a view of what is coming from their own Holy Spirit led perspective.

But if you want a chronological view of the end times, you certainly would not use the other 26 books to interpret Revelation. Revelation gives us a chronological order of events. The problem is many do not accept the order John gave us, and they want the book to say what they want it to say for some reason or another. Even pre-mill don't always accept the order as given. Then, like you, some say, we cannot even understand Revelation unless we use the other 26 books of the NT to guide us.

You cannot prove from Scripture that we need to view the usage of a thousand in Revelation 20, symbolically. Nor can you prove that we need to place this chapter somewhere else in the book of Revelation to show it is talking about a time period prior to the other chapters in the book. There is a whole doctrine of pre-mill thought, but that has never been my argument. The only point of my pre-mill view is the timing, not the doctrine made by human theological eschatology.

Sure, the other books throughout the OT and NT fill in the blanks of this coming Millennium, that John does not cover. John is not explaining the Millennium. John is just placing the Millennium in his chronological framework. Your interpretation takes other thoughts from Scripture and denies the chronological aspect of Revelation 20, by explaining away what John never emphasized to begin with. The whole book is event and time driven. Not really telling us the "meat" of what happens, but a Revelation through time, and the judgments on humanity up until the end.

Using the KJV only, here some simple questions with MC answers. The correct answers are in red.
1. What major, proof positive event will end the Age of God's Grace, through His Son?
A. A hurricane
B. The Lord Jesus is revealed in Glory, and in flaming fire from heaven.

2. For all who are saved, being alive, and are changed into the likeness of His Immortality, where do we meet Him?
A. In the air.
B. On the earth.

3. In the OT scriptures, does it say that Jesus shall come from heaven and stand in the Mount of Olives? (Zech. 14:4)
A. Yes.
B. No.

4. In the three manifestations of Jesus, in which manifestation did Jesus fulfill that OT prophecy, of his feet being on Mount Olives?
A. In mortal flesh
B. In the Spirit.
C. In the Glory of His Immortality.

5. Did OT prophets have any knowledge at all about the three manifestations of Jesus, and in which manifestation their prophecies would be fulfilled?
A. Yes.
B. Some.
C. No, not at all.