WWJD with LGBTQ?

[TLHKAJ]

To help the family work through the very REAL issues instead of condemning them as you do.
The child's same-sex preference may never go away. It's not a sin unless acted upon sexually.
They were born that way. (testosterone/estrogen imbalance) Medical assistance would help.

Sending them to "deliverance ministry" infers that the child is possessed by a demon.
That is potentially more damaging than their decision to leave the church.

I believe this is very balanced. Lovingly give them the truth. Pray for them. (No theatrical shouting match with demons needed. God can expel demonic strongholds and attachments without theatrics.) Steward their heart and bring them to Christ, and He will do the work in their heart, mind, spirit ....and body if needed.

Not all who lean toward same sex attraction are born that way. Very many have experienced trauma or some impactful negative event that left gaping open wounds for the enemy to take advantage of. I know, because I experienced it. Mist of y'all know my history of severe trauma (SRA/MK) that began in the womb. I experienced sexual trauma from both sexes, and was groomed to be used in that manner.

When I came to Christ at age 13, I started to let my protective walls down a tiny bit and as a result, I allowed someone I trusted to be physically close enough to hug me. Now ...prior to that, any physical closeness meant sex, violation, etc ...and so when an older woman in the church hugged me, my body responded in ways I didn't choose. Thankfully, I took it to the Lord, and He protected my heart and mind. What I was experiencing was more akin to a body memory, not a sexual attraction. (BUT, satan can and does offer lie based thinking in these types of situations and a child can believe a lie, that they are attracted to the opposite sex.)

It's good to be open to listening and ministering to any hurts, wounds, traumas that may need the Lord's healing. As well, as you mentioned, there may be hormonal imbalances that can be addressed with proper nutrition. (No child should be on synthetic hormones ...it is potentially dangerous.) Proper protein and fats will balance hormones, along with eliminating junk (processed foods, sugar, high carbs, etc).

 

[TLHKAJ]

Hogwash. Stop presenting the woke lie that they were "born this way" as if that absolves moral culpability.

I think that because of generation after generation of sin, and that iniquity abounds more so now than ever before ....the effects on the physical body, and a developing fetus, may cause hormonal issues that can predispose a child to same sex attraction ...which may not be sexual at all, at least until they hit puberty ...or never be sexual at all, but just a non-sexual attraction.

Idk ....but it is a possibility. That doesn't make it not a sin if acted upon, though. It's just very unfortunate that they live with these physical issues. I believe God can heal it ...there are many testimonies of this.

 

[Button]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

Odd question.
Hasn't God already answered this question in his word?

 

[St. SteVen]

I am not condemning anyone. I merely presented the scriptural position on same sex attraction.

Did you?
I don't recall seeing that.
Are you claiming it is a sin? (condemning)

 

[St. SteVen]

Hogwash. Stop presenting the woke lie that they were "born this way"

Here's an example. A three and a half year old boy showing transgender leanings.

No one thinks twice about a Tom Boy, but what about a Pink Boy?

 

[St. SteVen]

It's good to be open to listening and ministering to any hurts, wounds, traumas that may need the Lord's healing. As well, as you mentioned, there may be hormonal imbalances that can be addressed with proper nutrition. (No child should be on synthetic hormones ...it is potentially dangerous.) Proper protein and fats will balance hormones, along with eliminating junk (processed foods, sugar, high carbs, etc).

Agree.
I think the church has traditionally handled this very poorly.

 

[Button]

I am not condemning anyone. I merely presented the scriptural position on same sex attraction. Please describe how you would instruct the family to work through these issues

I agree and that would be part of my counsel. To not act upon such desires.

Hogwash. Stop presenting the woke lie that they were "born this way" as if that absolves moral culpability. I am single and my desire for the opposite sex doesn't absolve me of my guilt if I act upon it.

How much experience have you had in deliverance? I have seen homosexuals spirits manifest with my own eyes. I have seen people delivered who went on to have normal marriages.

I agree the Trans affliction is symptomatic. Hormone imbalance, and other chemical imbalance. Same as what causes homosexuality.

So in that sense it is natural. Only it just happens to be a birth defect in the natural chemical and hormonal processes.

 

[St. SteVen]

I agree the Trans affliction is symptomatic. Hormone imbalance, and other chemical imbalance. Same as what causes homosexuality.

So in that sense it is natural. Only it just happens to be a birth defect in the natural chemical and hormonal processes.

I agree.
That being the case, how should the church react to these very real issues?

 

[Button]

I agree.
That being the case, how should the church react to these very real issues?

If they come into our church,we should welcome them with open arms. That's the beginning of their journey out.

 

[St. SteVen]

If they come into our church,we should welcome them with open arms. That's the beginning of their journey out.

I agree.
This is more typical.

--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Button]

I agree.
This is more typical.

--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?

It went wrong when the greeter asked the first question.

 

[Hillsage]

I don't think that was the question. Jesus doesn't tolerate your sin either ....nor mine, or anyone else's sin. So what's the point? How did He deal with your sin?

The instant I got born again. He eternally forgave ALL my sins....past present and future. The next day I sinned and later found out He taught about how you are going to temporally reap something negative from whatever sin seed you just sowed. I believe the forgiveness of the cross is one and done. OSAS Once Saved Always Saved...Once a Sheep Always a Sheep. But continued sin costs you. Continued sinning doesn't cost you the price of going to heaven, it costs you concerning the rewards you could have received upon arriving.

How did He deal with the sin of the woman at the well...

He first established a spiritual relationship with her ending in her requesting 'literal water' when He was talking symbolically of spiritual water. Then He prophesied things (Husbands?) confirming to her that he was a prophet and she was a sinner.
Then He spoke again answering her spiritual question as to what mountain was the correct one to worship on. He never mentioned her sins needing forgiveness. Because he didn't come so save Samaritans, but only the Jews....who crucified Him. She ended up going back to the city declaring she had met "the Christ".

Am I missing your point with this one?

or the woman caught in adultery?

He said nothing to Her. He stooped down and began writing in the dirt. (probably the sins of the guys holding rocks to throw at her. They all walked away. He asked where her accusers were (today we would say they all went back TO
CHURCH to discuss this situation. When she said no one was LEFT to accuse her. LIKE THE CHURCH TODAY.....He dealt with her sin issue and TOLD HER TO SIN NO MORE.

How did He deal with Peter after Peter denied Him 3 times?

He first prophesied to Peter that he would deny Him. Where did that supernatural gifting go at the end of the first century? Wasn't Peter already a chosen one of HIS? Actually 'chosen' by Jesus, and sin was never even mentioned.

That's exactly the same way He deals with someone who comes to Him out of the LGBTQ community.

Now you lost me. Not one of these examples you've shared, were they committing any of those sins.

Whatever we give to Him, He is able to cleanse us from. We all have had sin and we all have needed cleansing and sanctification.

Yes, when we give our LGBTQ and our queer colors of the rainbow banners etc. (colors which have defiled the very symbolism of the rainbow). Which simply said he wouldn't DESTROY THE SIN OF THE EARTH with another flood.

I love the sinner and not the sin. I have hugged a number of homosexuals. I did so with the love of Jesus and felt their fears of judgment, like they get from CHURCHIANITY melt.

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future....if they repent.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Are you claiming it is a sin? (condemning)

It ...the act of homosexual intimacy ....is sin.

 

[shepherdsword]

I agree the Trans affliction is symptomatic. Hormone imbalance, and other chemical imbalance. Same as what causes homosexuality.

So in that sense it is natural. Only it just happens to be a birth defect in the natural chemical and hormonal processes.

They why do identical twins sometimes differ in preference?

 

[shepherdsword]

Did you?
I don't recall seeing that.
Are you claiming it is a sin? (condemning)

The bible clearly states that it is a sin. Read Romans 1 for starters. Also, I suggest you examine what condemnation means because you are misapplying it.

Ro 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Are you claiming it is not a sin? So, in dealing with the family of the child would you encourage them to facilitate the tenancy towards same sex attraction? Is that love and compassion? OR...is it more loving to warn them of the potential consequences if such desires are acted upon?

 

[shepherdsword]

Here's an example. A three and a half year old boy showing transgender leanings.

No one thinks twice about a Tom Boy, but what about a Pink Boy?

Have you ever noticed a virtual explosion of such cases since it became popular and hip to have some transgender leanings? It seems like such cases are products of an environment that encourages it.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Have you ever noticed a virtual explosion of such cases since it became popular and hip to have some transgender leanings? It seems like such cases are products of an environment that encourages it.

It can also be encouraged upon the assumptions of the parents that just because a girl likes to run with the boys, play cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, climb trees, don't like to wear dresses, etc (all things I also did as a girl) ...that they are identifying as the opposite gender. Or because a boy puts on their sister's shoes or plays with dolls, they are identifying as a girl. Of course, all of those things are very normal and don't mean the child is confused. Boys who have fathers who are very involved with their babies/children may have little boys who grab a doll and play like they're a daddy. I've seen it!

 

[Button]

They why do identical twins sometimes differ in preference?

I think it's like unto twins where one will be born healthy and the other with a birth defect.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Are you claiming it is a sin? (condemning)

It ...the act of homosexual intimacy ....is sin.

I was referring to the adolescent's innate same-sex attraction. (not acted upon)

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you claiming it is not a sin? So, in dealing with the family of the child would you encourage them to facilitate the tenancy towards same sex attraction? Is that love and compassion? OR...is it more loving to warn them of the potential consequences if such desires are acted upon?

Once again you are jumping to conclusions that are not there.
I have been clear that the teen had not acted on their innate wiring.
There is a need for psychological counseling and medical intervention for hormone imbalance.
Rather than your suggestion of casting out a demon(s). Which could do more damage than good.