Yahwehs Food Laws: Why Hearken

[Groundzero]

"Sin is the transgression of the Law" occurs only in the AV. Please consult other versions.

I think there's a distinction between the Law and the laws. There are moral laws, and then there are ceremonial laws. Big difference.

Gosh. I can't believe some of the stuff I read here! So what if the Jewish Christians followed the dietary laws?!! That was their choice, perhaps their conviction! Besides, it was also the culture they lived in, therefore:
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

Will you get it in your heads, that there is nothing wrong with following the dietary laws, but there is something terribly wrong when you force them on other people or say people sin when they don't follow them.

Now, James Forthwright said, quote: "As a general rule, I tend to follow Christ's example rather than the Gentile Church's model." You know, I really wish that people would watch what they type more. Listen to what the Scripture has to say: Rom_12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Listen! The church is ONE body in CHRIST! There is no difference between 'Christ's' Church and the 'Gentile' Church. The Jews and the Gentiles who are Christians belong in the EXACT, SAME CHURCH!!! Jesus paved a way for people of all races and cultures to be bound together by one common denominator: HIM, and us Christians go about tearing it up! Read your Bible before you attempt to preach from it.

Once again, if you follow the dietary laws, no big deal. That's fine. If you don't follow the dietary laws, no big deal, that's fine ALSO! Don't label sin what God doesn't label sin.

P.s. The $1 BBQ sale, well, I'm not very keen on sewer rat but I hear that over in India that's another story . . . . If I was stuck in the jungle with nothing to eat, I'd eat anything I could find, including rats, carrion, etc.

 

[Templar81]

Scriptural proof that we don't have to follow the food laws

Acts 10:9-16
[sup]9 [/sup]About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. [sup]10 [/sup]He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. [sup]11 [/sup]He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. [sup]12 [/sup]It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. [sup]13 [/sup]Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
[sup]14 [/sup]“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
[sup]15 [/sup]The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
[sup]16 [/sup]This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

 

[JLB]

Scriptural proof that we don't have to follow the food laws

Acts 10:9-16
[sup]9 [/sup]About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. [sup]10 [/sup]He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. [sup]11 [/sup]He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. [sup]12 [/sup]It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. [sup]13 [/sup]Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
[sup]14 [/sup]“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
[sup]15 [/sup]The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
[sup]16 [/sup]This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

I would not exactly call Acts 10 "scriptural proof". The trance was an analogy concerning the Gentiles.


Thanks, JLB

 

[James Forthwright]

Scriptural proof that we don't have to follow the food laws

Acts 10:9-16
[sup]9 [/sup]About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. [sup]10 [/sup]He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. [sup]11 [/sup]He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. [sup]12 [/sup]It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. [sup]13 [/sup]Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
[sup]14 [/sup]“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
[sup]15 [/sup]The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
[sup]16 [/sup]This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

The only thing those passages demonstrates is proof of how poorly some Christians interpret scripture and at the great lengths they will go to twist scripture to conform to their pet doctrines.

In order to properly understand scripture you MUST read the verses IN CONTEXT. The Apostle Peter gives the proper interpretation of his dream in verse 28:


Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Peter's vision had NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOD! God merely used an analogy using known unclean animals to show Peter that previously "unclean" Gentiles were now cleansed and were to receive the Gospel. And proof of the vision was that Cornelius, a Roman centurion and his group of Gentile friends were called by God and waiting downstairs of Peter's home.

Unclean animals are still unfit to eat (partake of them at your own peril). Tragically it appears that, many Christians prefer to be their own "lords and masters" determining what food is clean or unclean by their taste buds and depending on personal preferences in choosing what day is the Sabbath and how it should be honored instead of relying on the truth of the Word of God.

 

[Groundzero]

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[James Forthwright]

My posts regarding biblical food laws aren't intended to condemn you or anyone else, GroundZero. Consider it merely as a Public Health Message for my fellow Christian brethren. God knows what's best for His creatures and has graciously given us a grocery list in the Bible.

You are not condemned if you choose to ignore our Heavenly Father's advice, just don't be surprised if your health begins to suffer for it.

These days, they make lots of clean food (pork substitutes) out of turkey, e.g., turkey ham, turkey, beef & chicken sausage and imitation crab that is very delicious so you won't be missing anything except sickness by adhering to the scriptures re clean wholesome food. Why not give God's Law a try?

 

[Templar81]

Further scriptural proof that the food laws are redundant
What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"


Now about my last post
Yes, Acts makes it clear that Peter's vision was about the gentiels but it can certainly be appliedto animals that the Jews thought to be unclean, so therefore it can be applied to food. Afterall did God create the Pig or not? Since God created the Pig then it can't be considered unclean.

 

[JLB]

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The Law of sin and death is different than the Law of Moses that was added till faith was revealed.


The Law of sin and death is The soul that sin must die. Romans 5:12-14

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

 

[James Forthwright]

Further scriptural proof that the food laws are redundant
What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'"

Nice try Templar81 but once again you are attempting to ‘shoe-horn’ scripture passages to fit your preconceived doctrinal notions rather than reading them in context.

The fifteenth chapter of Matthew verses 1-20 ALSO have NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOD or Old Testament laws regarding cleanliness. The Pharisees were criticizing Christ’s disciples because they were eating without first washing their hands. You’ll not find any OT passage that mentions that law as it was part of the Babylonian Jewish oral tradition which was later included in the Talmud. Jesus was correcting these overly-legalistic MANMADE exta-biblical religious traditions and superstition specifically regarding evil spirits which were supposed to be able to enter anyone who ate with unwashed hands which had crept into Jewish beliefs. Jesus was NOT overturning OT food laws but the religious ordinances of man.

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

We are to use wisdom (an increasingly rare commodity these days) and be led of the Spirit in such matters and thus we conclude that it is just good hygienic practice to wash our hands before we eat because of bacteria not because it might spiritually defile our bodies.

Now about my last post
Yes, Acts makes it clear that Peter's vision was about the gentiels but it can certainly be appliedto animals that the Jews thought to be unclean, so therefore it can be applied to food. Afterall did God create the Pig or not? Since God created the Pig then it can't be considered unclean.

No, it can’t be applied to unclean animals because they have never been cleansed (only Gentiles). You state that “God created the PIG”. Yet, you won’t dare eat of the $1 BBQ special I mentioned earlier. What you claim with your lips as clean, your actions clearly state otherwise (the definition of hypocrisy). God also created the ‘sewer rats, misc. roadkill or buzzard breasts’ but that isn’t your cup of tea. But how do you really know unless you try it? They could be incredibly delicious, for all you know. Sure, if one is starving they’ll likely eat just about anything but instinctively we are repulsed by such fare, in spite of what many claim the Apostle Paul seems to say, we KNOW that such filthy (read “unclean”) animals are not healthy to consume. Whereas pork and shellfish may ‘taste good’ and are popular items on menus, however, they still sicken/kill thousands of people every year. There are always consequences to violating God’s eternal Law and they aren’t pleasant.

God knows what is best for His creatures. That is why Noah took two of each unclean beast and seven pairs of clean beasts into the ark so that the earth would have plenty of CLEAN FOOD available after the flood (Gen. 7:2). You’ll never find Christ or His disciples eating anything but scripturally clean food.

 

[Groundzero]

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Getting tired of this debate. It really is pointless. There dietary laws were not even LAWS that could impute sin. So really, that Scripture doesn't apply! They were guidelines for health. They are just as applicable today, but they are not ESSENTIAL to salvation. You don't need to follow the dietary laws to be saved.


Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Now did Jesus answer, "Go, follow Moses dietary laws, and you will be able to enter."?!

No. At least, I hope you said no.

Here's his answer: "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Now I would think it a bit interesting to note that Jesus never really mentioned anything about food, etc. He named two basic principles: 1. Love you neighbor as yourself, and 2. Love God. This young man, failed in the latter. He loved his wealth more than he loved God.

 

[JLB]

Getting tired of this debate. It really is pointless. There dietary laws were not even LAWS that could impute sin. So really, that Scripture doesn't apply! They were guidelines for health. They are just as applicable today, but they are not ESSENTIAL to salvation. You don't need to follow the dietary laws to be saved.


Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Now did Jesus answer, "Go, follow Moses dietary laws, and you will be able to enter."?!

No. At least, I hope you said no.

Here's his answer: "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Now I would think it a bit interesting to note that Jesus never really mentioned anything about food, etc. He named two basic principles: 1. Love you neighbor as yourself, and 2. Love God. This young man, failed in the latter. He loved his wealth more than he loved God.

I agree with you on this thread.

I was just making a distinction between The Law of sin and death and The Law of Moses.


Thanks. JLB

 

[James Forthwright]

Getting tired of this debate. It really is pointless. There dietary laws were not even LAWS that could impute sin. So really, that Scripture doesn't apply! They were guidelines for health. They are just as applicable today, but they are not ESSENTIAL to salvation. You don't need to follow the dietary laws to be saved.

Is your physical health “pointless”? Is the health of that lovely infant pictured on your avatar “pointless”?


Mat 7:9-10 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? (10) Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

Jesus here is teaching the basic facts about clean (fish) and unclean (snakes) food.
Just because one’s salvation doesn’t hinge upon a particular doctrine does not make them of no value. True, the transgression of the dietary laws many not impute sin but they will impute sickness and disease.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Now did Jesus answer, "Go, follow Moses dietary laws, and you will be able to enter."?!

No. At least, I hope you said no.

Here's his answer: "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Part of “following Jesus” is following His example. Jesus (or any of the other saints) is never depicted eating anything but biblical clean foods.

Now I would think it a bit interesting to note that Jesus never really mentioned anything about food, etc. He named two basic principles: 1. Love you neighbor as yourself, and 2. Love God. This young man, failed in the latter. He loved his wealth more than he loved God.

Are you really advocating that every affluent Christian must sell all their possessions to be have eternal life?

There are other commandments Jesus didn’t mention, e.g., not worshiping other gods, not bowing to idols, observing the Sabbath does that mean they aren’t equally as valid as the other commandments He mentioned? Jesus never really mentioned anything about studying the Word of God, or prayer in those passages does that mean we shouldn’t be bothered?

 

[Sabitarian]

Might I mention if you have a weight problem that pigs are very greasy and fat, which does not break down into food for us, but is just stored in your fat cells, of course that is why God tells us not to eat fat.

 

[JLB]

Might I mention if you have a weight problem that pigs are very greasy and fat, which does not break down into food for us, but is just stored in your fat cells, of course that is why God tells us not to eat fat.

Based on your reasoning, we are to eat only herbs and vegetables. For that was God's law in the beginning. You have repeatedly mentioned that the first sacrifice was in the garden when The Lord made skins to cover Adam and Eve. That the law of Moses was still to be kept. That we are to keep God's law concerning food.


Genesis 2:9 - Before the fall

9 And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:17-23

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return." 20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. 21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. 22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.



The truth of the matter is - Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

For the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy peace, gentleness, faithfulness, kindness and self control, against such there is no law.


For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.


For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.

Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.


Eat healthy. Be happy.

Don't try to convince people to keep the law of Moses.

Rather, strive to be filled with The Spirit and walk with God.



JLB

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

from 1 Timothy 4 .... Hebrews 9 & 13 etc

 

[Sabitarian]

Just for your edification the food laws are for your good, however most Christians, who follow Pagan traditions, eat many unclean things as they can not be called food as God did not put them here as food, they are the clean up crew to make things clean for us, as there must be something to eat and digest the refuse of this world and they are the ones to fulfill the bill. Now if you eat them contrary to the warning given by God you will suffer the concequences of your actions, obesity and bad health. I personally have not been to a doctor for health reasons for over 30 years, as I utilize herbs as a remedy for any ills that I might suffer. My mother had a cancer on her arm and the operation was scheduled for a month and a half later. By the time that her appointment was to takeplace she was cancer free, by using natural remedys, as it just fell off. Yes there are many cures for all diseases known to man and the causes are from not following the food laws of God.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Just for your edification the food laws are for your good,

i would certainly agree with that.

 

[James Forthwright]

i would certainly agree with that.

So why did you previously post the opposing position? The biblical clean food laws are for our health benefit. Ignore them at your own peril. Today's news continues to bear witness:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/06/15/cooked-squid-inseminates-womans-mouth/

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/facts/shellfish-r-months1.htm

 

[JLB]

So why did you previously post the opposing position? The biblical clean food laws are for our health benefit. Ignore them at your own peril. Today's news continues to bear witness:

http://abcnews.go.co...s-womans-mouth/

http://health.howstu...h-r-months1.htm

Your motive is the key issue.

Eating healthy and exercising are good habits to being physically fit and active.

However your motive seems to be that of "obeying the law of Moses", which if you go down that road, it's all or nothing.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of Moses.

Please stop trying to motivate people to take on a "hybrid religion" of adding the parts of Moses Law to the New Covenant!


It's all or nothing.


JLB

 

[Axehead]

Before beginning, I feel it only fair to say that this section of Yahweh's Law is NOT necessary for salvation because we're saved by grace, not works (Ephesians 2:9)

Glad you said that!

but at the same time these are commandments (not suggestions) from Yahweh Almighty and they should be honored by any sincere Christian who desires to know the morality of the God of Israel.

Looks like you are getting ready to contradict yourself.

One of my favorite passages is found in Matthew 5:17-18 and it plainly reads; "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

BluxTunic,

Ye err not knowing the Scriptures. Don't you know that when a person dies, these laws have no power over them? That is what Romans 7 is about. The Law will never die, so guess who has to die to get free from the condemnation of the Law and the power of sin? That's right, you and I do. Did you die with Christ? Read Romans 6 and 7 when you get a chance and the first part of 8.

Or go over to this link and read some of my posts. I give a brief explanation of what it means to "die in Christ", and be "buried with Him in Baptism".
http://www.christian...w/page__st__270


Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, (that means the old man subject to laws has died) wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. (That means you have been raised from the dead, too).

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.



The Law and ordinances and statues in the OT are blotted out against us because of Col 2:12. YOU DIED! (That is, if you have been born-again). And you were buried with Him in baptism. The Law does not have any jurisdiction over a dead man. You have been raised a NEW creature in Christ. Behold, all things have become new.

Axehead