Yes, it is possible to reconcile all of the New Testament Scriptures

[Zachary]

Paul, IN context, is talking about a lifestyle, NOT individual sin.
He is writing TO believers, not ABOUT believers. BIG difference.

Why did he warn 3 times in 8 verses TO believers that t'which they already knew quite well:
sin results in eternal death?

'Cause, obviously, dey were still sinning ... and needed to start being slaves of righteousness
(to which dey were called ... called to go through the sanctification process unto holiness)!
Gee, Paul was even callin' dem to be slaves of obedience! ... Imagine that.
And imagine Paul callin' unbelievers to be slaves of obedience, slaves of righteousness, etc.
Wow, he sure was hopeful, wasn't he!

 

[Zachary]

Eternal death... where do you get eternal death out of these scriptures?
I'm pretty sure it says, the wages of sin is death, not eternal death.
That's impossible.

Aaaaah, thanks ... I just did not realize that Jesus goes around killing people who are sinning!

What a God? What a Plan!

 

[Zachary]

In the OT, God's prophets came to the "believers" and told them,
"Here's how to reconcile all of this stuff you've been hearing about God ...".
And they were stoned for their trouble.
Guess the "believers" used up all the stones.

 

[H. Richard]

Okay, try reconciling your passage with Rom 6:16-23 ...
where Paul warns these believers 3 times in the 8 verses that
sin results in (eternal) death.
Please, not physical ... I've heard that nonsense too much already!

Rom 6:15-17
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
NKJV

Many use verse 16 to try and put the children of God back under the law and so are you.

No, I am not going to spend the time trying to convince you that you can't be saved by what you do as far as sin goes. The scriptures teach us that Jesus' work on the cross, His shed blood, paid for all the sins of the world but the religious will not believe it. They still think that there are all those sins that He didn't pay for and mankind must try and keep the law so they can get into heaven. -- The reason is that just as the Jews have been blinded, by God, so have those today who hear the promise of salvation based on the work of His Son on the cross and refuse to believe (accept) it as payment for their sins. Just as Cain was told to offer a blood sacrifice and but refused thinking God would accept the work of his hands and by doing so his offering was not accepted by God. --- It is the same today, mankind wants God to accept what they do in religion instead of accepting and having faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

NKJVGal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
NKJV

 

[StanJ]

Why did he warn 3 times in 8 verses TO believers that t'which they already knew quite well:
sin results in eternal death?

'Cause, obviously, dey were still sinning ... and needed to start being slaves of righteousness
(to which dey were called ... called to go through the sanctification process unto holiness)!
Gee, Paul was even callin' dem to be slaves of obedience! ... Imagine that.
And imagine Paul callin' unbelievers to be slaves of obedience, slaves of righteousness, etc.
Wow, he sure was hopeful, wasn't he!

That's NOT what is written Zachary, so if you're going to comment about scripture, KNOW what is says, and don't try to insert your personal interpolation. What Paul said, was;

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I suggest you make your point on the exact portion of scripture you are referring to.
We ALL die...Heb 9:27.
We all sin...Rom 3:23.
Paul wasn't CALLING anybody, ONLY God does that. Rom 8:28-30. Paul was stating facts in Rom 6, in order to distinguish between the OLD covenant Law and the NEW covenant Grace.

 

[Zachary]

I suggest you make your point on the exact portion of scripture you are referring to.

Here's an exact portion of Scripture ... Romans 6 ...

True believers have been set free from the bondage of sin.
Dey are called to choose NOT to sin anymore.
Dey are called to choose to be slaves of obedience.
Dey are called to choose to be slaves of righteousness.
Gee, that would be kinda nice.
For if dey do continue sinning (habitually), dey are risking eternal death.

I hope that's clear now.

 

[logabe]

Aaaaah, thanks ... I just did not realize that Jesus goes around killing people who are sinning!

What a God? What a Plan!

Do you know what Paul is really saying? If you continue to sin you will continue in death. Jesus
said, let the dead bury the dead. Why did He say that? These people were living, but Jesus said
they were spiritually dead.

How?

They were dead to the things of God. In other words, they didn't believe what God was saying, so
they continued in their carnal minds. Paul explained himself a couple of chapters later. Romans
8:6-8 says,

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded
is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not
subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

To answer your question if Jesus goes around and kills people that are sinning... no, they are
already dead according to Paul.

Your eternal death and God's death are two different things.

People change by believing what God has said, not what they do. What they do will change when
they believe what God has said. So God will get all the glory.

Do you know what God's Plan is for you? Acts 3:25-26 says,

25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant
which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in
your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’
26 For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless
you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

My point is, when we begin to share the scriptures correctly to all the families of the earth, we
want have to tell people not to serve the flesh (not to sin), because it will become part of their
nature to do what is right in the eyes of God. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, which
is, God working inside of you changing your nature daily.


What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Zachary]

logabe ... "Your eternal death and God's death are two different things."
I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[logabe]

logabe ... "Your eternal death and God's death are two different things."
I have no idea what you're talking about.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you believe that people can stay in death for eternity if
they continue in sin. My point is, God said, that He would destroy death (1st Corinth. 15:26),
so death is temporary according to Paul.

1st Tim. 1:10 says,

10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ
Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light
through the gospel,

So everyone who has believed the gospel has passed from death (carnal mind) to life, which
is the mind of Christ. That is the death that Paul was talking about in Romans 6:23. If I
continue to sin (break the Law of God), I will continue to walk in condemnation, but if God
gives me His Grace and I take advantage of the opportunity by submitting to His Will, then I
can walk without condemnation knowing that it is God working inside of me to accomplish the
purpose He has for my life.

I can't within myself accomplish the purpose of God, but by faith, I believe that God can cause
me by His Grace to do things that I wouldn't normally do.

Do you stay in death if you continue to sin? Sure. But God promises that He will destroy death
in the end.

Do you believe it or do you believe death will be into eternity?

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[H. Richard]

In the gospels, Jesus was preaching to ALL unsaved people.
And He really was preaching to everyone in the future.

Jesus was not sent to the Gentles. He was sent to fulfill the promises He made to the Jews.

It is clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8. -- But most will not believe that Matt. 10:5-7 and Matt. 15:23-24 actually means what it says.

 

[StanJ]

Here's an exact portion of Scripture ... Romans 6 ...

True believers have been set free from the bondage of sin.
Dey are called to choose NOT to sin anymore.
Dey are called to choose to be slaves of obedience.
Dey are called to choose to be slaves of righteousness.
Gee, that would be kinda nice.
For if dey do continue sinning (habitually), dey are risking eternal death.

I hope that's clear now.

Nope...try again.

 

[Zachary]

Do you believe it or do you believe death will be into eternity?

I like your post #49.
IMO, Jesus and Paul were saying spiritual death for the entire human race
was overcome by Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

 

[H. Richard]

Here's an exact portion of Scripture ... Romans 6 ...

True believers have been set free from the bondage of sin.
Dey are called to choose NOT to sin anymore.
Dey are called to choose to be slaves of obedience.
Dey are called to choose to be slaves of righteousness.
Gee, that would be kinda nice.
For if dey do continue sinning (habitually), dey are risking eternal death.

I hope that's clear now.

The bondage of sin is the law, The child of God has been set free of the law since ALL sins were paid for by Jesus' shed blood on the cross. The children of God have been made children of God by their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood on the cross; not by their own works. It is called the gospel of God's grace.

The child of God does not WANT to sin but they know they still do. When a person reads the last verse in Romans7 finish the verse where Paul says that the flesh follows the law of sin.

Rom 7:25
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, """"""""but with the flesh the law of sin.""""
NKJV

The child of God is obedient when he/she trusts in the gospel of grace that Paul preached. Paul was sent by Jesus to the Gentile. However, today mankind refuses to hear what Paul said.
Acts 9:15-16
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
NKJV

All mankind sins. If a person says that they do not sin in the flesh they are a liar. If a man/woman could choose not to sin in the flesh then Jesus' shed blood would not have been necessary.

But God is fair in that He has made a gospel in which all of sinful mankind can be saved but only by faith in Jesus' work on the cross.

 

[H. Richard]

I like your post #49.
IMO, Jesus and Paul were saying spiritual death for the entire human race
was overcome by Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

According to the scriptures you are right. All mankind, both the saved and the unsaved will be resurrected. The unsaved will not be resurrected until the White Throne Judgment. Then they and death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:12-14 (the White Throne Judgment)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
NKJV

 

[StanJ]

I like your post #49.
IMO, Jesus and Paul were saying spiritual death for the entire human race
was overcome by Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

Actually death ONLY relates to the lack of animation in the BODY. We become eligible for ETERNAL life, when we accept Jesus as our saviour and why He did what He did. The Bible clearly shows that those who are not saved, will suffer ETERNAL punishment, which is separation from God.

 

[Zachary]

Actually death ONLY relates to the lack of animation in the BODY. We become eligible for ETERNAL life, when we accept Jesus as our saviour and why He did what He did. The Bible clearly shows that those who are not saved, will suffer ETERNAL punishment, which is separation from God.

Talk about a statement straight outta kindergarden ... please!

 

[StanJ]

Talk about a statement straight outta kindergarden ... please!

When did you graduate from kindergarten....last year?

 

[Zachary]

We become eligible for ETERNAL life, when we accept Jesus as our saviour and why He did what He did.

Hey, you said somethin' true and deep!
But, do you have any idea what you're writin'?
More importantly, do you believe what you write?

 

[StanJ]

Hey, you said somethin' true and deep!
But, do you have any idea what you're writin'?
More importantly, do you believe what you write?

This kind of response doesn't do anything to engender yourself to me Zach. Try being smart and not just a smart aleck.

 

[logabe]

Actually death ONLY relates to the lack of animation in the BODY. We become eligible for ETERNAL life, when we accept Jesus as our saviour and why He did what He did. The Bible clearly shows that those who are not saved, will suffer ETERNAL punishment, which is separation from God.

Does that include the billions of people that died and have never heard the name Jesus? What
will God do with them?

Logabe