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YOU DENY THE POWER

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by RANDOR, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. walls of jericho941

    walls of jericho941 New Member

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    LOL. I was most certianly not seeking it out, in fact I told a mentor of mine what happened and he then told me it was called slain in the spirit. I didnt even know what it was called then.

    I would like to add, I was able to move but if I did the peace would go away. Or maybe a better way to say it was I would move out of the peace.
     
  2. Madad21

    Madad21 Boast in Christ

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    Randor said "you deny the power"

    But I say

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Bronzesnake

    Bronzesnake New Member

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    It's my understanding that speaking in tongues, is speaking one language, to a crowd, who all understand what is being spoken, in their own language.

    •On the day of Pentecost Jesus' apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in "other tongues". Those who heard this speech "each heard it in his own language", even though they were from many different countries (Acts 2:1-13). Even though the apostles were speaking in an unknown language, the listeners were able to understand, each in his own language.

    I'm kind of on the fence though. Can anyone clear this up for me, through scripture?

    Thanks

    John
     
  4. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    @ Bronzesnake ...

    There is a major difference between the tongues of Acts which people could hear and understand and the "gift" of Tongues which The Holy Spirit
    bestows, where no one understands.

    For one who speaks in a tongue speaks NOT TO MEN but to God; for NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 1 Cor 14:2

    and,

    What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
    Otherwise, IF YOU GIVE THANKS WITH YOUR SPIRIT, HOW CAN ANYONE IN THE POSITION OF AN OUTSIDER SAY "AMEN" TO YOUR
    THANKSGIVING WHEN HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ? 1 Cor 14:15 - 16

    That's why someone with the "gift" of interpretation is needed,

    Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless
    someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. 1 Cor 14:5

    and,

    So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue
    should pray that he may interpret. 1 Cor 14:12 to 13
     
  5. This Vale Of Tears

    This Vale Of Tears Indian Papist

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    Sorry, but I don't see the "major difference" between the tongues the Apostles used in Acts and the gift of tongues. Since we're talking about the same Holy Spirit that moved upon men to speak with tongues, that's quite a claim that there's a "major" difference. In fact there's none.

    And there's also no difference between that and the groaning whereby the Holy Spirit intercedes for us through groaning that we don't understand (Romans 8:26) Both are an intercession that allows us to pray beyond human understanding, and it's not a gift that should be given to one person and not another, for we are all baptized in the same Spirit. This whole thread, and the thread that preceded it, is built on the notion that some Christians have a special bag of goodies that others don't, the same sort of immature thinking by which two of Jesus's disciples asked to be seated at Christ's right and left hand, (actually they had their mother request it).

    And so it goes that I've seen much more Christian immaturity over the subject of tongues than I've seen on any other subject and it all is because we attempt to artificially induce what the Holy Spirit will only give in His own time and place......not ours.
     
  6. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    I just showed the difference ... in one instance the people could understand and in the next people cannot.
     
  7. This Vale Of Tears

    This Vale Of Tears Indian Papist

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    You're picking on a nuance when it's the same manifestation of the Holy Spirit. In the congregation, Paul insists that there be an interpreter or otherwise tongues be silent, so no, there is no instance where people cannot understand what's being spoken. Besides, genuine tongues are not just unintelligible babble. Plenty of people give testimony of their tongues being a foreign language, only they didn't know that until somebody recognized their native language being spoken. You're going to need more than that to establish a "major difference" between the gift of tongues and....the gift of tongues. Trying to call it the "tongues of Acts" will not avail you. It's all the same gift.
     
  8. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    Yes it is the same Holy Spirit ... but there is a difference and it's obvious and I repeat that I've shown it, you just don't want
    to see it.
    But that does not make it any less true.

    Also there is a difference when speaking in tongues in a congregation and when you are alone, then you don't need an interpreter.

    The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 1 Cor 14:4

    When do you build yourself up ?
    When you speak in tongues but Paul would rather have you pray that you may interpret to build up the church.

    Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,
    unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. 1 Cor 14:5

    Yes, many times people did and do speak in a tongue in a language that is someone's native tongue.
    But you cannot escape 1 Cor 14:2 where Paul under inspiration of the Holy Spirit says that "no one understands him".

    Look, if you don't believe in speaking in tongues according to what the Word says, then I cannot and am not going to try to convince you that
    is your choice.
     
  9. This Vale Of Tears

    This Vale Of Tears Indian Papist

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    I'm wasting my time with you. Nothing in my posts indicates I don't believe in tongues. You aren't listening so we're through.
     
  10. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    I never said that you don't believe in speaking in tongues and it's you who is not reading what I'm saying, but that's fine I take no issue with you.
    This is for many a very touchy subject and I am most certainly not God who is the one who guides you into truth, I merely repeat what he says.
     
  11. This Vale Of Tears

    This Vale Of Tears Indian Papist

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    I've heard of delusional people who think they speak the voice of God and anyone who disagrees with them disagrees with God, but it's rare to actually run into one. It's intriguing in a way, like finding a rare, exotic fungus or seeing an other-worldly deep sea creature. You can't understand it, you can only gawk in bewildered amusement.
     
  12. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    Hahahaha that was low bro ... but very funny :D and not very Christian <_< but God bless you anyway :lol:

    I don't claim to know everything and am always open to correction if in error and will not resort to name calling
    etc., because that only shows a persons maturity level in the Lord.

    Nevertheless, back to the topic at hand.

    Tongues is a touchy subject, some believe it passed away with the apostles while others believe that God the Holy Spirit
    still bestows his gifts today.

    I cannot convince anyone either way except to say that non believers in tongues should take it to God and that believers in it
    should be gentle with those who don't.
    Also speaking or non speaking in tongues does not make you "more saved" or less so as it has no bearing on your eternity with God.

    I remember hearing a story where a man stood up in church and began speaking in tongues and right after him someone also stood
    and gave an interpretation.
    Problem was that the "tongue talker" spoke in his home language and told the Pastor so, this was very embarrassing to the "interpreter".

    It's things like this that put the gift of God in a very bad light and make the charismatic/Pentecostal movement look ridiculous.
    Even the "babababababababa" makes it look incredibly false and even demonic.

    As I've stated before, Paul says in 1 Cor 14:2,

    For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

    Take note of the word "mysteries" - Greek - mysteria ... something hidden.

    Now the tongues of Acts 2 was no mystery because EVERYONE understood what was being said, so let's look at it,

    "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? Acts 2:8

    But the tongues which was a gift from the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor 14:2 was a mystery because the word says it was, because
    that's what the Tongues from the Holy Spirit is, a mystery.

    For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

    Furthermore, Paul states that you would need an interpreter to unravel or interpret the mystery spoken.
    This in no way is one and the same tongue and you don't need a rocket science degree to see the difference either.

    There is no way I or any one else can change a person's mind if they have decided to stick to their idea's other than point
    out what the Word says.
    And that is what it's really all about ... what God says, not what I or anyone else says and if repeating God's word is considered
    to be bad because it might somehow show you to be clever - let God be the judge - then so be it.
    That's not my opinion of myself ... I consider myself to be an ever learning student.
    Unfortunately, rather than learn, some people would rather save face in the light of error and expose their level of maturity and lower
    themselves to fleshly tactics.

    When I joined this site I did it for a twofold reason to help others and to learn myself which simply means that I don't think I know
    everything.
     
  13. This Vale Of Tears

    This Vale Of Tears Indian Papist

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    Enquirer, you make a very compelling argument for following the advice of Jesus, keep those prayers in the closet. If we are praying to God and not to men, then why do we need an audience? People who stand up and start babbling are just being disruptive. My own father (a pastor) had the ushers (which I was one) remove somebody who was doing this. The pastor is in charge of the service, in spite of rebellious self righteous types who insist that the Holy Spirit, through them, should take charge at any moment. Disorderly conduct does not come from God, it comes from fleshly ambition.

    I've prayed in tongues before. I've NEVER done so in public. I also don't strip down naked in public and for the exact same reason. It's private between me and the Lord and it benefits nobody else.
     
  14. Enquirer

    Enquirer New Member

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    Yes Vale, I pray in tongues privately or with my wife and in my home fellowship group ... but mainly in private, especially when I'm driving.
    Even though I hold to many Pentecostal beliefs I simply cannot escape the fact that Paul says people will think we are crazy if we all just stand
    and "go for it" like what happens in many churches.
     
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