Among other things, I’m a retired adjunct theology professor. I recommend reading widely, deeply, thoughtfully, critically. I read all of the creeds, including the Apostles’ Creed.
You don’t know; we Jews know
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Among other things, I’m a retired adjunct theology professor. I recommend reading widely, deeply, thoughtfully, critically. I read all of the creeds, including the Apostles’ Creed.
“Jesus himself stood in the tradition of Jewish monotheism, more exactly, of Palestinian early Judaism. His thinking and acting were geared towards this One God by whom he felt himself to have been sent and to whom he felt close, so that - again following early Jewish practice - he called him Father.
It needs to be explained how and why, from the second century on, this fundamental monotheism underwent a binitarian and Trinitarian ‘enrichment.’ This would be relatively simple if the narrative documents of Christianity, above all the soon-to-be called New Testament, had suggested such a doctrinal development. That is however not the case. … In the vast majority of the New Testament, however, Jesus is God’s representative, an eschatological man who after his death was raised to God. The sporadic triadic formulas are by no means to be viewed in the same sense of an ‘implicit’ concept of the Trinity.”
(Karl-Heinz Ohlig, One or Three? : From the Father of Jesus to the Trinity, p. 121)
An excellent book which I’ve just finished rereading. I recommend it to all of my readers.
This trinitarian scholar possesses a clear understanding of my position (Jewish monotheism / primitive Christianity) and a clear understanding of binitarianism and trinitarianism. It can’t be discussed here by members who are registered “Christian”, and there is virtually no interest in church history here anyway. I maintain though, as I have for decades, that the history should be taught in all churches, and privately in the home.
I understand that this will be a minority opinion among non-trinitarians, but here goes. Geronimo.
Something I learned as an adjunct theology professor: It isn’t necessary for non-trinitarians to speak against trinitarianism. (And, unsurprisingly, it isn’t well-received by trinitarians when it is.) What is necessary is to provide students with education on Church history.
Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically.
Let everyone be convinced in their own mind.
Something I learned as an adjunct theology professor: It isn’t necessary for non-trinitarians to speak against trinitarianism. (And, unsurprisingly, it isn’t well-received by trinitarians when it is.) What is necessary is to provide students with education on Church history.
Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically.
Let everyone be convinced in their own mind.
What church history did the Apostles need to learn after they received power at penticost to Preach the Gospel throughout the world?
Jesus and the Apostles made the earliest church history. Studying all of church history is, nevertheless, valuable - where, when, why, and how has the church deviated and not deviated from the earliest history.
What's important to me is hearing God's word, and growing in faith...never ending. I don't investigate anything, because I'm not called to be an investigator. I'm an askanager. I nag God about questions I don't have logical answers to, and then the answers come, in their own perfect time, and I know He's watching and listening and smiling and His peace then overwhelms me and everything else is insignificant.
The history of what happened pre 4 BC was what was available to them post 4 BC. For example, the Book of Judges showed what would happen if you turned away from God's word and what was required to restore their relationship with God.
For the Church, the Book of Judges is a historical account from which we can learn. even today.
The point is that the OT is the Blueprint ! That is the, comes from ? the start of foundations.
Even for all the wrong the Jews done by God is worthy of the realitys of the Human condition !
Then came Jesus ! for all to get on track !
The History proves that the Jews could never save themselves, as only God Saves !
The Jews were only worthy when they abided in God, and always failed when they had turned their back on God in fact ! Just as it is with anyone.
The Jews do not save and never did !
Christ Jesus Saves ones Soul ! fact is that one must have Lordship Salvation, because that is who Christ Jesus is !
Christ means (Lord) and Jesus means (Saviour) ! So one who abides in the body of Christ is of the Lord and as such Jesus (Salvation) is the Head their of !
So we now come down to the Jew who is worthy of the OT ! such as they are worthy of the Blueprint !
Now if one is not worthy of the Blueprint they are not worthy period !
Christians who are worthy are worthy of the OT = The Blueprint ! for they are worthy of the NT in Fact ! as the Blueprint is the Foundations their of !
God sent his only begoten Son, so that we should Live ? in abundance ! this has to do with The Gift ! Salvation comes from picking it up ! that is how Grace abounds in fact !
For if one has not Grace, you are not worthy of God in fact !
The abundance is due to Grace that has growen within one ! It's a gift of God !
For without such, then one is just as they who spite Jesus in fact, for they are carnal, if not only religious animals who are clearly Lost ! for they will Kill etc just like any wild beast ! for they know no better truly, regardless what they think, they are still Lost ! They are an Abomination in fact. for such is a Curse ! They are a Curse ! and always were, when the Serpent sowed the seed.
But their is a Vaccine ? so one can make the Leap ? and come into being worthy of the Kingdom of God !
You Must be born again !
The Jews know who God is. The issue is believing and obeying the God of the Jews or not believing and disobeying the God of the Jews.
Most of them haven’t believed and obeyed. Some of them have.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Then why did the Jews have a hard time recognizing and believing him when he showed up in the first century?
I presume that you believe what Jesus said is true.
Didn’t Jesus himself answer the question? Wasn’t it because of the corrupt religious authorities?
Perhaps it was because of the prophecy contained in Exodus 20:4-6: -
Please note that the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the first two generation/ages of the existence of the people group, the Israelites began with the birth of Isaac and ended the moment that Christ was born.
The visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the first two ages began the moment that Christ was born and will end in around 20 years' time from now. During the third and the fourth age of the existence of the people group, the Israelites began walking contrary to God and God also walked contrary to the nation of Israel. The prophets, spoke of these two ages/days of the Lord, and lamented and cried over the Nation of Israel because of Israel's hard heart. God had a plan to scatter the Israelites to the four corners of the earth so that they could, when they repented after the completion of the Daniel 8:14-15 prophetic time span become a blessing to all the peoples of the earth who will heed Isreal's priestly call to repentance and chose to take root in God's fertile soil.
God is not wanting Israel to return to the "Promised Land of Canaan," as has present happened after the establishment of the Nation of Israel in the Land of Canaan, but rather he wants the nation of Israel to remain scattered throughout the whole earth/world.
When God begins to gather the nation of Israel to Himself, He will enter into a covenant promised to remove the beastly heavenly hosts from the face of the earth for the great harvest season of hosts.
Leviticus 28 and Deuteronomy 28 speak of the time of Jacob's troubles of the multiplying increase of hardship that they will experience because they would not repent during the third and the fourth age of their existence.
There is a change coming soon, when the sun will be darkened and the moon will turn read and the Israelites will turn once more to begin worshipping God. At that time, they will become a kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's possession among the nations to gather the nations to God.
Shalom
Exodus 20:4-6: - 4 " You shall not make for yourself a carved image — any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations/ages of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Please note that the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the first two generation/ages of the existence of the people group, the Israelites began with the birth of Isaac and ended the moment that Christ was born.
The visitation of the iniquities of the fathers of the first two ages began the moment that Christ was born and will end in around 20 years' time from now. During the third and the fourth age of the existence of the people group, the Israelites began walking contrary to God and God also walked contrary to the nation of Israel. The prophets, spoke of these two ages/days of the Lord, and lamented and cried over the Nation of Israel because of Israel's hard heart. God had a plan to scatter the Israelites to the four corners of the earth so that they could, when they repented after the completion of the Daniel 8:14-15 prophetic time span become a blessing to all the peoples of the earth who will heed Isreal's priestly call to repentance and chose to take root in God's fertile soil.
God is not wanting Israel to return to the "Promised Land of Canaan," as has present happened after the establishment of the Nation of Israel in the Land of Canaan, but rather he wants the nation of Israel to remain scattered throughout the whole earth/world.
When God begins to gather the nation of Israel to Himself, He will enter into a covenant promised to remove the beastly heavenly hosts from the face of the earth for the great harvest season of hosts.
Leviticus 28 and Deuteronomy 28 speak of the time of Jacob's troubles of the multiplying increase of hardship that they will experience because they would not repent during the third and the fourth age of their existence.
There is a change coming soon, when the sun will be darkened and the moon will turn read and the Israelites will turn once more to begin worshipping God. At that time, they will become a kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and God's possession among the nations to gather the nations to God.
Shalom
You didn't understand my question. But that's ok, let me explain something about your answer. The book of judges was so effective for the Jews that they missed the entire point of why Jesus was their Messiah, not to mention that Saul the Pharasee was persuing the "Church" to destroy them by murdering them if he had to. It took Jesus in a violent and angry way to make Paul understand the error of his resistance. Paul carried the Gospel to the uncivilized world, and through God's "Law of Faith" the Churches benefited through the "GOSPEL" not Judges.
Paul left all those influences you speak of for 13 years and preached Jesus and Him crucified, he preached works of faith and not works for profit or recognition so much so, that when Paul returned, it was like Moses who left egypt and wondered searching for God's word, and God revealed to Moses a new order, a new law, a new commandment and mission and not one influence of anything he received from the upbringing as an egyptian was left found in Him.
Peter as an Apostle almost lost his place as a pilar of the Apostels, because of his perplexity in seeing the animals come down from heaven that he should kill and eat, and almost accused God of being unrighteous, Peter pondered that vision in the trance, and when he arrived at cornileuses house, he said "...God has SHOWED ME, that no man is unclean in His sight".
God had to demonstrate through revelation by the Holy Spirit, not by their orientation of an old wine in an old flask.
Writer, I understood your question fully. It was a question of arrogance with respect to the Israelites, a put down.
Yes, many today claim that they have the "power" from the Holy Spirit to understand what it is that we should do, and that the Old Testament is irrelevant to read for Christians.
The Book of Judges speaks of God providing judges to Israel to call the respective tribes to return to God's statutes and ways of living a Holy Life which they were able to maintain while the Judge lived.
After around one and a half ages, God sent a new Judge to tell the people to repent of their sins and to return to God's way of living. In doing so, Christ changed the process by which they could be redeemed before God.
Sadly, many of the Israelites from Jesus' time refused to repent and just like today, they wanted redemption from God on their terms and not God's terms.
Many in the Churches todays want their redemption on their terms and will not humble themselves and repent of their sins so that God can heal their "land."
The history of the Assembly of God's people from the time of Adam until the present day have not learnt from their past history about the consequences of turning away from God or really know how to re-establish their relationship with Him
We need to relearn how to see and hear God's small voice and respond to it accordingly.
Again, misunderstanding what I wrote doesn't excuse your inexcusable indifferance to the "Truth". I wasn't being arrogant, neither before you, or God, nor was I putting either the Jews or the old testament down. I can not stress to you, as a Jew, if indeed you are, the incredible revelation that the Apostles had of the entire Gospel from the old testament, when they preached the Gospel in their day before a new testament was even available or considered to become part of the bible. But that is the point sir, they preached the Gospel of JESUS, to a NEW creation, THROUGH THE OLD TESTAMENT, a Gospel of God's promis that Jesus brought something, in a NEW wine, that the old could not, and that is this: Jesus brought TRUTH AND GRACE! All this being preached from the OT, and that's why they were being hated, that's why they were being called what you're calling me, that's why Stephen was stoned and why Jesus threw saul off His horse.
Paul, writing about the Jews said, "...they carried the oracles of God throught the world". Even in Diaspora, the kings that God gave His people over to, marveled at the Jews and the God they were petitioning to. So much so, that if it weren't for the diaspora to Babylon, how would Nebuchanezar know the power of the God of the Jews, or all of the other kingdoms that ruled over Gods people over time. Do think I'm blind, Really? The Jews road over title waves of civilizations, most of which attempted to kill and destroy them, and today some don't even exist, and others have been reduced to just about rubble, demonstrating the prophesies that God humbles kings and kingdoms, and He does it through His people who are called "wresteling with God". The Jews made God real to the nations, and the nations paid attention. At Jesus birth, it was three wise men, gentiles, who saw a sign, having heard of a King who was to be born in Bethlahem, through God's people, the Jews, the Magi proved, by honoring God's Son, the power that Gods word, through God's people had, to the whole world of a coming Messiah, in hopes that they too might be included! After all, all those remnet gentiles in Jericho, after the battle, were included in the family of the Jews, and were circumcised, and they walked together and became a family, and Rahb was recorded in Jesus Geneology by the Jews, the SCRIBES. The exact picture of a "NEW CREATION". Does that make you angry. Sorry, get your head out of your own arrogance.
I have brought so called "ATHEIST" and "AGNOSTIC" Jews to repentance before Christ. Not because I'm better, God forbid, or because I know more, God forbid, but because of Truth and Grace. It was me who set them free, it was the "TRUTH" that set them free. I'm just a servant and a messenger.
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