You expect me to love THAT person?!?!?

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Willie T

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"Yes", I know some of the stuff I post which is written in archaic language can be difficult to read, but many of you swear you love reading the KJV.... So, give this a chance also:

But how can we love a man or a woman who is cruel and unjust to us?-- who sears with contempt, or cuts off with wrong, every tendril we would put forth to embrace? — who is mean, unlovely, carping, uncertain, self-righteous, self-seeking, and self-admiring? — who can even sneer, the most inhuman of human faults, far worse in its essence than mere murder?

These things cannot be loved. The best man hates them most; the worst man cannot love them. But are these the man? Does a woman bear that form in virtue of these? Lies there not within the man and the woman a divine element of brotherhood, of sisterhood, a something lovely and lovable, — slowly fading, it may be, — dying away under the fierce heat of vile passions, or the yet more fearful cold of sepulchral selfishness — but there? Shall that divine something, which, once awakened to be its own holy self in the man, will loathe these unlovely things tenfold more than we loathe them now — shall this divine thing have no recognition from us? It is the very presence of this fading humanity that makes it possible for us to hate. If it were an animal only, and not a man or a woman that did us hurt, we should not hate: we should only kill. We hate the man just because we are prevented from loving him. We push over the verge of the creation — we damn — just because we cannot embrace. For to embrace is the necessity of our deepest being. That foiled, we hate. Instead of admonishing ourselves that there is our enchained brother, that there lies our enchanted, disfigured, scarce recognizable sister, captive of the devil, to break, how much sooner, from their bonds, that we love them! — we recoil into the hate which would fix them there; and the dearly lovable reality of them we sacrifice to the outer falsehood of Satan's incantations, thus leaving them to perish. Nay, we murder them to get rid of them, we hate them.

Yet within the most obnoxious to our hate, lies that which, could it but show itself as it is, and as it will show itself one day, would compel from our hearts a devotion of love. It is not the unfriendly, the unlovely, that we are told to love, but the brother, the sister, who is unkind, who is unlovely. Shall we leave our brother to his desolate fate? Shall we not rather say, "With my love at least shalt thou be compassed about, for thou hast not thy own lovingness to enfold thee; love shall come as near thee as it may; and when thine comes forth to meet mine, we shall be one in the indwelling God"?

If anyone say, "Do not make such vague distinctions. There is the person. Can you deny that that person is unlovely? How then can you love him?" I answer, "That person, with the evil thing cast out of him, will be yet more the person, for he will be his real self. The thing that now makes you dislike him is separable from him, is therefore not he, makes himself so much less himself, for it is working death in him. Now he is in danger of ceasing to be a person at all. When he is clothed and in his right mind, he will be a person indeed. You could not then go on hating him. Begin to love him now, and help him into the loveliness which is his. Do not hate him although you can. The personality, I say, though clouded, besmeared, defiled with the wrong, lies deeper than the wrong, and indeed, so far as the wrong has reached it, is by the wrong injured, yea, so far, it may be, destroyed."

— George MacDonald in the essay, Love Thine Enemy
 

Helen

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"Yes", I know some of the stuff I post which is written in archaic language can be difficult to read, but many of you swear you love reading the KJV.... So, give this a chance also:

But how can we love a man or a woman who is cruel and unjust to us?-- who sears with contempt, or cuts off with wrong, every tendril we would put forth to embrace? — who is mean, unlovely, carping, uncertain, self-righteous, self-seeking, and self-admiring? — who can even sneer, the most inhuman of human faults, far worse in its essence than mere murder?

These things cannot be loved. The best man hates them most; the worst man cannot love them. But are these the man? Does a woman bear that form in virtue of these? Lies there not within the man and the woman a divine element of brotherhood, of sisterhood, a something lovely and lovable, — slowly fading, it may be, — dying away under the fierce heat of vile passions, or the yet more fearful cold of sepulchral selfishness — but there? Shall that divine something, which, once awakened to be its own holy self in the man, will loathe these unlovely things tenfold more than we loathe them now — shall this divine thing have no recognition from us? It is the very presence of this fading humanity that makes it possible for us to hate. If it were an animal only, and not a man or a woman that did us hurt, we should not hate: we should only kill. We hate the man just because we are prevented from loving him. We push over the verge of the creation — we damn — just because we cannot embrace. For to embrace is the necessity of our deepest being. That foiled, we hate. Instead of admonishing ourselves that there is our enchained brother, that there lies our enchanted, disfigured, scarce recognizable sister, captive of the devil, to break, how much sooner, from their bonds, that we love them! — we recoil into the hate which would fix them there; and the dearly lovable reality of them we sacrifice to the outer falsehood of Satan's incantations, thus leaving them to perish. Nay, we murder them to get rid of them, we hate them.

Yet within the most obnoxious to our hate, lies that which, could it but show itself as it is, and as it will show itself one day, would compel from our hearts a devotion of love. It is not the unfriendly, the unlovely, that we are told to love, but the brother, the sister, who is unkind, who is unlovely. Shall we leave our brother to his desolate fate? Shall we not rather say, "With my love at least shalt thou be compassed about, for thou hast not thy own lovingness to enfold thee; love shall come as near thee as it may; and when thine comes forth to meet mine, we shall be one in the indwelling God"?

If anyone say, "Do not make such vague distinctions. There is the person. Can you deny that that person is unlovely? How then can you love him?" I answer, "That person, with the evil thing cast out of him, will be yet more the person, for he will be his real self. The thing that now makes you dislike him is separable from him, is therefore not he, makes himself so much less himself, for it is working death in him. Now he is in danger of ceasing to be a person at all. When he is clothed and in his right mind, he will be a person indeed. You could not then go on hating him. Begin to love him now, and help him into the loveliness which is his. Do not hate him although you can. The personality, I say, though clouded, besmeared, defiled with the wrong, lies deeper than the wrong, and indeed, so far as the wrong has reached it, is by the wrong injured, yea, so far, it may be, destroyed."

— George MacDonald in the essay, Love Thine Enemy

I loved your little dig at us who love the archaic language of the KJV. :D

Good word here by G. M. Of the two I have always preferred reading C.S. Lewis myself ... yet G.M. hit the nail here.

Christians are such a mixture...on the one hand we say that we can see the love of God for us ..and we weep and say " Thank You Lord".
Yet in looking at the man that gets under our skin we find repulsive ...and love goes out of the window. :confused:

I try hard to "see the man" and not see what is distasteful , but I don't always or often win over myself.

When Christ can fill all of our vision the distasteful man will be lost within that love and vision. Until them, we must endeavour to separate the distasteful part from the man that Jesus died for.

A work in progress...yet Jesus did not leave us with a choice, He just said ..
L O V E.
 

Willie T

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For a full two months now, I have been battling a growing dislike for a man at the YMCA. He deliberately took the seat of a woman who had been sitting there on a two-person sofa with her grandchild when she got up to go get a cup of coffee. He refused to relinquish the seat when she returned, even though the small grandson was still sitting there. (She was very polite)

I watched the exchange for a few minutes, then, since there were no other chairs, I got up and offered him my own single-person chair. He still refused to budge.... even played his "black" race-card on us white people by saying out loudly enough for the whole place to hear, "I am offended!!!" She ended up taking her grandson and leaving. She hasn't been back since.

To this day, it just riles me when 30% of the people passing by go out of their way to greet him as though he were really something special. (They really do seem to like him.) I can't even make myself speak to him. I don't like this in myself, but I do almost hate him.
 

Nancy

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For a full two months now, I have been battling a growing dislike for a man at the YMCA. He deliberately took the seat of a woman who had been sitting there on a two-person sofa with her grandchild when she got up to go get a cup of coffee. He refused to relinquish the seat when she returned, even though the small grandson was still sitting there. (She was very polite)

I watched the exchange for a few minutes, then, since there were no other chairs, I got up and offered him my own single-person chair. He still refused to budge.... even played his "black" race-card on us white people by saying out loudly enough for the whole place to hear, "I am offended!!!" She ended up taking her grandson and leaving. She hasn't been back since.

To this day, it just riles me when 30% of the people passing by go out of their way to greet him as though he were really something special. (They really do seem to like him.) I can't even make myself speak to him. I don't like this in myself, but I do almost hate him.

Loving people like that is the hardest thing for me, I just want to smack them across the face! It is not something I relish, these feelings against another. I think it has allot to do with justice but, God alone judges. There is one person whom I am having a hard time forgiving although, I say it every day, "Lord, I forgive her". It seems phony to me as, there is still anger, hurt and disappointment and, this is a supposed sister in Christ. Her "fruits" if any at all, were totally rotten and thought it "normal" to lie, steal and cheat. And, I witnessed her doing these things for almost 2 years as I allowed her to rent my upstairs for only 300 per month, I tried to speak to her, as well as texting her about the things she stole from me, as well as deciding to move in with her 30 year old son just days after purchasing a new (used vehicle) I agreed to pay 300 per month because I had her rent to cover it. Now I am out over 600 a month because of her selfishness. Even writing about all of this gets my goat so, maybe it's best to leave it alone...she refused to answer my texts, and requests that she call me because she did not ever call me back. It's not the monetary issues she caused me so much as her attitude and she has all in her Church convinced that she is a spirit filled Christian...Ha! She was a totally different person around them so, if we are to know them by their fruits...? At a loss here and have been since last year in April when she decided to live with her son. It's ALWAYS about her, always and, the Church just enables her by always giving her money because she cries broke all the time...she should stop spending it on cigarettes and pot! Okay, I have to end this post as I feel I'm getting into sin with my anger towards her. I won't stop begging God to release me from these feelings I have toward her. I only wish He would answer and give me the grace to be able to mean it from the heart, not just the words "I forgive you". She would NEVER admit what she has done, my brother (who still attends that Church) even can see her phoniness.
Matthew 24:12 "12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Not sure who these are, is it Christians who's love shall wax cold? Or is it everyone do you think?
 

Helen

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Loving people like that is the hardest thing for me, I just want to smack them across the face! It is not something I relish, these feelings against another. I think it has allot to do with justice but, God alone judges. There is one person whom I am having a hard time forgiving although, I say it every day, "Lord, I forgive her". It seems phony to me as, there is still anger, hurt and disappointment and, this is a supposed sister in Christ. Her "fruits" if any at all, were totally rotten and thought it "normal" to lie, steal and cheat. And, I witnessed her doing these things for almost 2 years as I allowed her to rent my upstairs for only 300 per month, I tried to speak to her, as well as texting her about the things she stole from me, as well as deciding to move in with her 30 year old son just days after purchasing a new (used vehicle) I agreed to pay 300 per month because I had her rent to cover it. Now I am out over 600 a month because of her selfishness. Even writing about all of this gets my goat so, maybe it's best to leave it alone...she refused to answer my texts, and requests that she call me because she did not ever call me back. It's not the monetary issues she caused me so much as her attitude and she has all in her Church convinced that she is a spirit filled Christian...Ha! She was a totally different person around them so, if we are to know them by their fruits...? At a loss here and have been since last year in April when she decided to live with her son. It's ALWAYS about her, always and, the Church just enables her by always giving her money because she cries broke all the time...she should stop spending it on cigarettes and pot! Okay, I have to end this post as I feel I'm getting into sin with my anger towards her. I won't stop begging God to release me from these feelings I have toward her. I only wish He would answer and give me the grace to be able to mean it from the heart, not just the words "I forgive you". She would NEVER admit what she has done, my brother (who still attends that Church) even can see her phoniness.
Matthew 24:12 "12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Not sure who these are, is it Christians who's love shall wax cold? Or is it everyone do you think?


Hugging you from a distance ((((Nancy ))))

On the none spiritual side, have you tried writing it all down to the Lord..(more than you have here) and then go into your back yard and burn it to the Lord. Let it go.
Just tell Him that you can't love or forgive her yet, but you know that He can ...

= "Casting your care upon the Lord.." Try not to 'feel' like you have forgiven or that you can love her...just cast it and do it by faith , and believe that once and for all it is done...and leaving the feeling part to Him.
Maybe this year, next year, or whenever...you will suddenly just know that it has no more hold over you...

No, I have no scripture verse for this!! LOL :D
 

Nancy

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Hugging you from a distance ((((Nancy ))))

On the none spiritual side, have you tried writing it all down to the Lord..(more than you have here) and then go into your back yard and burn it to the Lord. Let it go.
Just tell Him that you can't love or forgive her yet, but you know that He can ...

= "Casting your care upon the Lord.." Try not to 'feel' like you have forgiven or that you can love her...just cast it and do it by faith , and believe that once and for all it is done...and leaving the feeling part to Him.
Maybe this year, next year, or whenever...you will suddenly just know that it has no more hold over you...

No, I have no scripture verse for this!! LOL :D

You are wise, grasshopper! :D I do like the idea of burning it to The Lord! Who says we have to have scripture verses in every post?? We are also on here for fellowship and encouragement!
Thank you my sister!
xoxoxo
 

marks

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Loving others with Godly love is impossible for the flesh, but is the true state in the regenerated spirit.

If we are walking in the Spirit, we love others. If we are not loving others, no matter who, then it just means we are walking according to the flesh.

Much love!
 
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Helen

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If we are walking in the Spirit, we love others. If we are not loving others, no matter who, then it just means we are walking according to the flesh.

Amen...wisely said ...

Jesus told us to ABIDE in Him...with me I abide , then I come out..then back, then out...I do not stay in the constant-abiding position of dwelling in Him.

I love PS 91 ..."He that dwelleth in the Secret Place Of The Most High shall abide under the shadow of The Almighty .." Sigh..my goal...but too often it's like slippery soap!! :oops:
 

marks

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Amen...wisely said ...

Jesus told us to ABIDE in Him...with me I abide , then I come out..then back, then out...I do not stay in the constant-abiding position of dwelling in Him.

I love PS 91 ..."He that dwelleth in the Secret Place Of The Most High shall abide under the shadow of The Almighty .." Sigh..my goal...but too often it's like slippery soap!! :oops:
Always attainable in faith, my precious sister!

But yes, I find my self slip-sliding all too frequently!
 
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Nancy

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Amen...wisely said ...

Jesus told us to ABIDE in Him...with me I abide , then I come out..then back, then out...I do not stay in the constant-abiding position of dwelling in Him.

I love PS 91 ..."He that dwelleth in the Secret Place Of The Most High shall abide under the shadow of The Almighty .." Sigh..my goal...but too often it's like slippery soap!! :oops:

Ditto Helen...but we never stop striving to keep in His Spirit...yet we are going to fight the flesh until we die!
 
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Waiting on him

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Ditto Helen...but we never stop striving to keep in His Spirit...yet we are going to fight the flesh until we die!
I feel as if we could ever come to the understanding of just how temporary this place truly is for us then Satan would have far less to negotiate with, but I realize “easier said than done” wife and I had an adult bible study with a new group tonight and it became very apparent to me in the discussion that when God has commanded in His word that we are to love our enemies, that this is something beyond mans ability this can only be achieved through the Spirit of God.

We witness this in the epistles after the gifting of the Holy Spirit. Even the very disciples who literally walked with Christ could not achieve this prior to Pentecost.
 

Nancy

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I feel as if we could ever come to the understanding of just how temporary this place truly is for us then Satan would have far less to negotiate with, but I realize “easier said than done” wife and I had an adult bible study with a new group tonight and it became very apparent to me in the discussion that when God has commanded in His word that we are to love our enemies, that this is something beyond mans ability this can only be achieved through the Spirit of God.

We witness this in the epistles after the gifting of the Holy Spirit. Even the very disciples who literally walked with Christ could not achieve this prior to Pentecost.

Good morning Waiting,
I do see what you are getting at here and, I do understand the Word when pertaining to this but...I have a knee jerk reaction to nastiness and yes, I know I must reign it in. As far as on this forum, when a brother or sister get attacked so viciously, like Helen was, the claws just come out on their own, lol...but, I will do my best to stay away from these kinds of people and go directly to God for the grace to NOT slam them...I would rather He did the slamming anyhow because He does it much better, ha!...Vengeance is His anyhow.
God Bless! :)
 
B

brakelite

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For a full two months now, I have been battling a growing dislike for a man at the YMCA. He deliberately took the seat of a woman who had been sitting there on a two-person sofa with her grandchild when she got up to go get a cup of coffee. He refused to relinquish the seat when she returned, even though the small grandson was still sitting there. (She was very polite)

I watched the exchange for a few minutes, then, since there were no other chairs, I got up and offered him my own single-person chair. He still refused to budge.... even played his "black" race-card on us white people by saying out loudly enough for the whole place to hear, "I am offended!!!" She ended up taking her grandson and leaving. She hasn't been back since.

To this day, it just riles me when 30% of the people passing by go out of their way to greet him as though he were really something special. (They really do seem to like him.) I can't even make myself speak to him. I don't like this in myself, but I do almost hate him.
Sometimes loving someone like that means telling him to his face his fault like Nathan did with David.. But good luck with that.
 
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Willie T

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You never know, Willie could possibly gain a brother?
I would like that. If so many other people seem to think the sun rises and sets on him, what I saw of his prejudicial side can't be all there is to him.. And, there has to be a reason he was so hateful and stubborn that day.
 

Willie T

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Sometimes loving someone like that means telling him to his face his fault like Nathan did with David.. But good luck with that.
You see...… If I already believe — as you just indicated — that direct confrontation is not going to work, (is in fact, going to accomplish just the opposite of what God wants) then why would I do it?

This is my biggest beef with "Scripture Shouters." They will openly tell you that the method they love to employ, is purely negative, and does nothing but turn people away from God. So, why do they keep on doing it? Is it their wish to boast that they "did their Christian duty", and told someone they are nothing but filth? I honestly think they really do hope they can help further people on their way to Hell. It's a sick thing to do to others, but I truly do believe that is a, perhaps unconscious, desire they harbor in their hearts.
 
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brakelite

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Nonsense. No one is suggesting you go up to someone and inform them blankly that they are nothing but filth and on their way to hell. But the gospel does not exclude informing people of their need of a Saviour, and why... Because their behaviour is not only an offence to man, but to God.