You might just be wrong about this earth being destroyed, and possibly other things?

[MatthewG]

Hey "bud", it's Okay if you only want to entertain people who agree with you, even when the simple truth is being ignored by most Christians.
Remember, the book of Genesis was written by Moses, who knew nothing about the necessity of the gaseous elements of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide, while he himself also continued breathing the "breath of life".
Edit:
Do you not see that just this one simple error of understanding of what "the breath of life" actually is, has led millions of believers to falsely believe that they have been given an eternally living soul by God?

As a result there have been numerous false doctrines generated from it, such as people believing that they shall be in burning torment by everlasting fire, that shall burn them forever, nonstop.

So then, back to your topic- will this literal planet earth be saved and restored, or will it be completely destroyed?
The NT Bible says plainly that it will be totally and utterly destroyed.
2 Peter 3:1-18

Earburner,

If you say so. Many have anticipated that event for over a millennium, and yet it remains unfulfilled.
You're absolutely entitled to your interpretation, just as I hold to mine. The passage you're referring to, in my view, was realized with the end of the Mosaic Age and the destruction of Jerusalem. I believe it was speaking to the world as they understood it at the time.
That said, if you'd prefer to continue asserting, "Matthew, you're wrong," that's perfectly fine with me as well.

 

[MatthewG]

I have already shown what Scripture says, plainly, directly, and in context. You can’t just ignore verses like 2 Peter 3: 10–13, Romans 8, or Revelation 21 because they do not align with your personal position. If your view requires minimizing or redefining what God plainly revealed, then it is not biblical.

You are free to believe what you want. But if it doesn’t square with the Word of God, don’t claim that it is truth. Truth is not changeable. It does not change to meet our personal preferences. Either submit to what Scripture plainly says, or be honest enough to admit that you are making up your own version. But know this: the rejection of truth does not negate it. It only uncovers the state of your heart.

bdavidc,

As I previously mentioned to Earburner (#21), I’m not creating a personal narrative—I simply hold a differing interpretation. I truly appreciate the space and respect you’ve extended for me to share my perspective.

While it may be suggested that my view contradicts biblical teachings, I stand firmly on what Peter affirmed as true and fulfilled during the end of that age in their time.

It does not reference the devastation of the entire earth, but rather speaks to a particular era and region that met its end in 70 AD, when God's judgment was poured out upon them in that time.

 

[MatthewG]

@Earburner, @bdavidc,

You're both free to hold and express your beliefs—whether you consider them truth or otherwise.

As Pilate once asked Jesus, “What is truth?” I simply know that, as a free-thinking individual, I am able to reflect and decide for myself.

Regarding the topic at hand: you may be mistaken in your view that this present earth will be destroyed. But ultimately, that remains a matter of interpretation.

If you believe humans do not possess living souls, I respect that—and love you regardless. Likewise, if you hold that the world we live in will be destroyed by God today, I honor your freedom to believe so.

My intention is not to persuade or change minds. Each person bears the individual responsibility to read Scripture for themselves, and I trust that those who do so with spiritual openness will be guided toward truth—despite the resistance from others who may object or accuse dissenting views of contradicting the Bible.

In my own journey, I’ve confronted gaslighting and learned the importance of seeking Yahavah—God—earnestly. I believe God created this world for us to enjoy, to share in life’s blessings, and to walk in love toward one another. In that spirit, I remain committed to faith and compassion.

If that includes being misunderstood or even mocked, so be it. I appreciate both of you and your perspectives. While this is indeed a debate thread, please know that there's a limit to how far that exchange will personally take me.

 

[MatthewG]

There are some transactions like the kjv which I do use and like, that however lead you to believe that the world ends like in Matthew 24, but in reality, the Greek says the end of the age, not world.

Hello DJt_47,

That’s a compelling observation. One way to interpret it is as "the world they knew at the time—defined by the law, sacrifices, and priesthood." Another is to see it as "the end of an age marked by these institutions." These elements were destined to pass away.

Yet, some continue to believe these events will unfold again, despite Jesus Himself declaring that such a time would never be equaled. That prophetic conclusion aligns with Yeshua’s return during that era—on what Scripture calls the great and dreadful day of the LORD. As foretold in the Old Testament, the elements would be consumed, and the land would be reduced to dust. In my view, this interpretation explains Peter’s reference to the "elements burning up."

This wasn't a warning about the annihilation of the entire planet, as some might suggest. Rather, it was about the end of a particular age, land, and time. From that ending would emerge the spiritual reality of a new heavens and new earth. The physical wrath of God was indeed poured out upon those of that generation.

This understanding has been shaped over time as I've continued to study and reflect.

 

[Earburner]

@Earburner, @bdavidc,

You're both free to hold and express your beliefs—whether you consider them truth or otherwise.

As Pilate once asked Jesus, “What is truth?” I simply know that, as a free-thinking individual, I am able to reflect and decide for myself.

Regarding the topic at hand: you may be mistaken in your view that this present earth will be destroyed. But ultimately, that remains a matter of interpretation.

If you believe humans do not possess living souls, I respect that—and love you regardless. Likewise, if you hold that the world we live in will be destroyed by God today, I honor your freedom to believe so.

My intention is not to persuade or change minds. Each person bears the individual responsibility to read Scripture for themselves, and I trust that those who do so with spiritual openness will be guided toward truth—despite the resistance from others who may object or accuse dissenting views of contradicting the Bible.

In my own journey, I’ve confronted gaslighting and learned the importance of seeking Yahavah—God—earnestly. I believe God created this world for us to enjoy, to share in life’s blessings, and to walk in love toward one another. In that spirit, I remain committed to faith and compassion.

If that includes being misunderstood or even mocked, so be it. I appreciate both of you and your perspectives. While this is indeed a debate thread, please know that there's a limit to how far that exchange will personally take me.

Aside from the ultimate situation of planet earth, as to it's continuance or it's fiery end, I hold to a scriptural theory that is more spiritual than most are willing to entertain.

Even though there is much scripture to support my theory, I am not going to quote any of it. I will simply allow the Holy Spirit within you to bring them to mind.

In brief, this is my theory:
All born again Christians are individually and collectively the New earth, and Jesus Himself is our New heaven.

 

[MatthewG]

Aside from the ultimate situation of planet earth, as to it's continuance or it's fiery end, I hold to a scriptural theory that is more spiritual than most are willing to entertain.

Even though there is much scripture to support my theory, I am not going to quote any of it. I will simply allow the Holy Spirit within you to bring them to mind.

In brief, this is my theory:
All born again Christians are individually and collectively the New earth, and Jesus Himself is our New heaven.

I haven't read my bible in a long time, so I don't know, Earburner.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Earburner,

I decided to read the first letter to Timothy, I thought this was cool to find what was written to him.

1 Timothy 6:
8 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap, and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all [b]sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

11 But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, [d]perseverance, and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and for which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 I direct you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,

God gives life to all things. That is interesting, and it makes me think about how God gives life to us every day, and those whom are born into this world are given life via a God-given soul which people have the ability to freely choose what they are going to do.

At least, that is what is seen in the garden scene with the start of mankind. God breathes into Adam making him a living soul.

It seems we are made up of spirit, soul, and flesh. The spirit of man (say the spirit of halloween as an example), soul (mind/will/emotions), and our fleshly body which pertains to how we use our body by the soul within us, which God gives life to.

Your Soul Is God-Given (Bible Study)

Hello, Your very soul is God-given. As God had made Adam (mankind) from the dust of the earth he breathed into him, and he became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Earburner]

8Hello @Earburner,

I decided to read the first letter to Timothy, I thought this was cool to find what was written to him.



God gives life to all things. That is interesting, and it makes me think about how God gives life to us every day, and those whom are born into this world are given life via a God-given soul which people have the ability to freely choose what they are going to do.

At least, that is what is seen in the garden scene with the start of mankind. God breathes into Adam making him a living soul.

It seems we are made up of spirit, soul, and flesh. The spirit of man (say the spirit of halloween as an example), soul (mind/will/emotions), and our fleshly body which pertains to how we use our body by the soul within us, which God gives life to.

Your Soul Is God-Given (Bible Study)

Hello, Your very soul is God-given. As God had made Adam (mankind) from the dust of the earth he breathed into him, and he became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul...

www.christianityboard.com

Yes, that appears to be the standard religious view of what "the soul" consists of,
however, that is not how God (through Moses) describes the reality of our being.
Gen. 2[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Before God breathed "the breath of life" into Adam's lungs, there was on standyby within Adam, Billions of living cells, previously created by God, waiting for the moment when they all could go on living within Adam.
Q. Do you know what the Billions of living cells were waiting for?
I believe that you do know!


A. Oxygenated air.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, that appears to be the standard religious view of what "the soul" consists of,
however, that is not how God (through Moses) describes the reality of our being.
Gen. 2[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Hello Earburner,

I believe life is a gift granted to us daily—what we commonly refer to as oxygen, I see as the breath of life. To me, that life originates from God. I also deeply appreciate the value of science. It offers incredible insights into how the world works and has led to breakthroughs, especially in medicine, that continue to improve and save lives.

P.S. I believe that a part of God lives in every single person today, possibly animals have a soul too. They do have a mind/will/emotions just as much as humans do. But I also love to eat chicken, and cows.

God gives life to all things, as I mentioned early in reading the letter written to Timothy.

 

[MatthewG]

@Earburner

Have you ever seen this movie before? I've actually read a part of the actual short story at one point in time. Interesting read for sure, but I seen this a long time ago as a young teen. It probably serves no purpose but other than to share an experience with you.

 

[Earburner]

Hello Earburner,

I believe life is a gift granted to us daily—what we commonly refer to as oxygen, I see as the breath of life. To me, that life originates from God. I also deeply appreciate the value of science. It offers incredible insights into how the world works and has led to breakthroughs, especially in medicine, that continue to improve and save lives.

P.S. I believe that a part of God lives in every single person today, possibly animals have a soul too. They do have a mind/will/emotions just as much as humans do. But I also love to eat chicken, and cows.

God gives life to all things, as I mentioned early in reading the letter written to Timothy.

Seeing that we both are able to come to the simplest of terms, in what we believe of what a soul is, I think that Lev. 17:11 says it all for all life that has blood and breathes air

[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

 

[Earburner]

@Earburner

Have you ever seen this movie before? I've actually read a part of the actual short story at one point in time. Interesting read for sure, but I seen this a long time ago as a young teen. It probably serves no purpose but other than to share an experience with you.

Lol. I am familiar with the type of figures and the programing but not the story. It reminds me of a children's Christmas story.

 

[MatthewG]

Seeing that we both are able to come to the simplest of terms, in what we believe of what a soul is, I think that Lev. 17:11 says it all for all life that has blood and breathes air

[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

@Earburner,

Today, atonement has been made for all souls. From my understanding, God's concern has never been solely about sacrifice—it’s always been about the condition of the heart. I considered using myself as an example, but perhaps a more vivid analogy is appropriate: Just as a chicken or cow is no longer useful after its lifeblood has been drained, so too, when the body ceases to breathe and the heart stops beating, our time in this physical realm ends—and the soul, I believe, moves forward.

That’s why I find your perspective puzzling. It seems to suggest that having a soul might be meaningless, which doesn’t align with my beliefs. I see each person as a unique being—endowed with a soul by God. Myself, you, my mother, my late father, my departed friend—we are all part of that truth. In my view, their souls have moved onward in accordance with divine intention.

If I’ve misunderstood your position and you’re not saying that we lack souls, then I simply disagree with the notion that the soul lacks purpose or meaning. To me, that conclusion just doesn't make sense. The soul itself is the heart that Jesus spoke about.

Mark 7:
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

It seems to me that the spirit of man, dwelling within the soul, is in need of transformation. But what kind of change? A change that shifts the heart of man toward the heart of Christ—a transformation guided by the Spirit of Christ, which renews our minds as we navigate the journey of life.

That said, I acknowledge this conversation may not alter your perspective or mine regarding the nature or significance of the soul.

I'm simply uncertain where you stand on the matter. It’s unclear whether you believe in the existence of the soul, or if you view the soul as lacking purpose or meaning. Your responses haven’t been entirely transparent, which makes it difficult to understand your viewpoint fully.

 

[Earburner]

@Earburner,

Today, atonement has been made for all souls. From my understanding, God's concern has never been solely about sacrifice—it’s always been about the condition of the heart. I considered using myself as an example, but perhaps a more vivid analogy is appropriate: Just as a chicken or cow is no longer useful after its lifeblood has been drained, so too, when the body ceases to breathe and the heart stops beating, our time in this physical realm ends—and the soul, I believe, moves forward.

That’s why I find your perspective puzzling. It seems to suggest that having a soul might be meaningless, which doesn’t align with my beliefs. I see each person as a unique being—endowed with a soul by God. Myself, you, my mother, my late father, my departed friend—we are all part of that truth. In my view, their souls have moved onward in accordance with divine intention.

If I’ve misunderstood your position and you’re not saying that we lack souls, then I simply disagree with the notion that the soul lacks purpose or meaning. To me, that conclusion just doesn't make sense. The soul itself is the heart that Jesus spoke about.



It seems to me that the spirit of man, dwelling within the soul, is in need of transformation. But what kind of change? A change that shifts the heart of man toward the heart of Christ—a transformation guided by the Spirit of Christ, which renews our minds as we navigate the journey of life.

That said, I acknowledge this conversation may not alter your perspective or mine regarding the nature or significance of the soul.

I'm simply uncertain where you stand on the matter. It’s unclear whether you believe in the existence of the soul, or if you view the soul as lacking purpose or meaning. Your responses haven’t been entirely transparent, which makes it difficult to understand your viewpoint fully.

You, and billions of others, misunderstand because you have been persuaded by the ignorance of man's religious thoughts of what THEY believe a soul is.

If there be anything for the evidence of what "a soul" is, it is entirely that of our conscious thoughts that are generated through our fleshly brain, of which requires oxygenated blood to nourish our brain cells.
We also know of it as being our human mind.

If there be no fresh supply of oxygenated blood to the brain cells, the cells begin to die off to the point that the whole body shall die, subcoming to what is called to be a "brain death", whereby the internal organs cease to function.

Again: God stated it clearly of how a soul exists. Lev. 17[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
So then, the question to you is:
what is in the blood, that is derived through "the breath of life", aka the natural process of our ability to breathe AIR?

You do know the answer, but the world of your religious persuasion will not allow you to believe or accept the simplicity of it.

 

[MatthewG]

You, and billions of others, misunderstand because you have been persuaded by the ignorance of man's religious thoughts of what THEY believe a soul is.

If there be anything for the evidence of what "a soul" is, it is entirely that of our conscious thoughts that are generated through our fleshly brain, of which requires oxygenated blood to nourish our brain cells.
We also know of it as being our human mind.

If there be no fresh supply of oxygenated blood to the brain cells, the cells begin to die off to the point that the whole body shall die, subcoming to what is called to be a "brain death", whereby the internal organs cease to function.

Again: God stated it clearly of how a soul exists. Lev. 17[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
So then, the question to you is:
what is in the blood, that is derived through "the breath of life", aka the natural process of our ability to breathe AIR?

You do know the answer, but the world of your religious persuasion will not allow you to believe or accept the simplicity of it.

Earburner,

Thank you explaining your point of view. I’m gonna hold on to what you call the “religious view.”

Thank you for the dialogue concerning it though.

I’m not trying to be persuaded just hearing you out.

Everyone has to be convinced in their own mind! :)

 

[bdavidc]

bdavidc,

As I previously mentioned to Earburner (#21), I’m not creating a personal narrative—I simply hold a differing interpretation. I truly appreciate the space and respect you’ve extended for me to share my perspective.

While it may be suggested that my view contradicts biblical teachings, I stand firmly on what Peter affirmed as true and fulfilled during the end of that age in their time.

It does not reference the devastation of the entire earth, but rather speaks to a particular era and region that met its end in 70 AD, when God's judgment was poured out upon them in that time.

What you are terming a "different interpretation" simply overlooks what the Bible actually says. 2 Peter 3: 10 is not talking about Jerusalem being destroyed. It is saying the heavens are passing away, the elements melting with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it being burned up. That is global, not local. If the old heaven and earth were gone in AD 70, why does Romans 8 still say that creation is groaning and waiting for the children of God to be revealed so it can be set free from its bondage to decay? And why haven't we yet received glorified bodies? If this is the "new heaven and new earth," then where is the righteousness that Peter said was coming? The Word plainly states otherwise. You cannot distort plain Scripture to fit a system and call that an interpretation. It is a revision of the Word. Let the Word speak for itself.

 

[MatthewG]

What you are terming a "different interpretation" simply overlooks what the Bible actually says. 2 Peter 3: 10 is not talking about Jerusalem being destroyed. It is saying the heavens are passing away, the elements melting with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are in it being burned up. That is global, not local. If the old heaven and earth were gone in AD 70, why does Romans 8 still say that creation is groaning and waiting for the children of God to be revealed so it can be set free from its bondage to decay? And why haven't we yet received glorified bodies? If this is the "new heaven and new earth," then where is the righteousness that Peter said was coming? The Word plainly states otherwise. You cannot distort plain Scripture to fit a system and call that an interpretation. It is a revision of the Word. Let the Word speak for itself.

Dear Bdavidc,

If one chooses to reference the Bible, I believe it should be approached contextually, also with in conjunction of the Spirt. Everyone is entitled to their personal beliefs, but I am not obligated to adopt them. You may perceive me as unteachable; however, I prefer to let the text speak for itself. If others label me a false teacher, so be it—such opinions do not alter my stance.

 

[MatthewG]

While I rarely send private messages, on occasion I do inform individuals if I’ve chosen to place them on ignore. That said, I consider myself an open-minded individual. I don’t expect anyone to believe me—or anyone else on this platform—without personal reflection. I encourage others to read the Bible for themselves and discern truth in alignment with the Spirit, worshiping the Father in both spirit and truth.

 

[bdavidc]

You're both free to hold and express your beliefs—whether you consider them truth or otherwise.

As Pilate once asked Jesus, “What is truth?” I simply know that, as a free-thinking individual, I am able to reflect and decide for myself.

Regarding the topic at hand: you may be mistaken in your view that this present earth will be destroyed. But ultimately, that remains a matter of interpretation.

If you believe humans do not possess living souls, I respect that—and love you regardless. Likewise, if you hold that the world we live in will be destroyed by God today, I honor your freedom to believe so.

My intention is not to persuade or change minds. Each person bears the individual responsibility to read Scripture for themselves, and I trust that those who do so with spiritual openness will be guided toward truth—despite the resistance from others who may object or accuse dissenting views of contradicting the Bible.

In my own journey, I’ve confronted gaslighting and learned the importance of seeking Yahavah—God—earnestly. I believe God created this world for us to enjoy, to share in life’s blessings, and to walk in love toward one another. In that spirit, I remain committed to faith and compassion.

If that includes being misunderstood or even mocked, so be it. I appreciate both of you and your perspectives. While this is indeed a debate thread, please know that there's a limit to how far that exchange will personally take me.

We can all claim free thought and walk our own paths. We can have discussions about “truth” all day, every day. But, here’s is what’s real. Truth is not open for discussion. “Tell us the truth!” Pilate asked Jesus, “What is truth?” Jesus did not answer that question. Jesus had already answered the question when He told the Father, “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). Truth is not dependent on our emotions and perspectives and definitions. God has already spoken.

2 Peter 3:10 is not a figurative judgment day. The heavens will pass away. The elements will melt with fire. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up. That’s not referring to Jerusalem. That’s not open for interpretation or discussion or debate. The whole creation still groans and travails in painful childbirth (Romans 8). The new heaven and the new earth come after the great white throne judgment. Death will be no more, and righteousness dwells there.

Saying that we are all right, even when the other view flatly contradicts the Word, is deceitful and disrespectful to those who would actually hold to the truth of Scripture. Go ahead and believe whatever you want, but you’re not biblical when you don’t align with what the Bible says.

 

[MatthewG]

We can all claim free thought and walk our own paths. We can have discussions about “truth” all day, every day. But, here’s is what’s real. Truth is not open for discussion. “Tell us the truth!” Pilate asked Jesus, “What is truth?” Jesus did not answer that question. Jesus had already answered the question when He told the Father, “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). Truth is not dependent on our emotions and perspectives and definitions. God has already spoken.

2 Peter 3:10 is not a figurative judgment day. The heavens will pass away. The elements will melt with fire. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up. That’s not referring to Jerusalem. That’s not open for interpretation or discussion or debate. The whole creation still groans and travails in painful childbirth (Romans 8). The new heaven and the new earth come after the great white throne judgment. Death will be no more, and righteousness dwells there.

Saying that we are all right, even when the other view flatly contradicts the Word, is deceitful and disrespectful to those who would actually hold to the truth of Scripture. Go ahead and believe whatever you want, but you’re not biblical when you don’t align with what the Bible says.

Bdavidc,

I acknowledge and accept your criticism. However, my beliefs diverge significantly from yours. I hold the conviction that the prophecies in Revelation have already been fulfilled, with chapters 21 and 22 representing an ongoing reality. While this may not align with common interpretations, I am entirely comfortable with that discrepancy.

The words of Jesus in Revelation are deeply meaningful to me, particularly His promise to come quickly and the foretold destruction associated with God’s wrath and the great and dreadful day. I do not accept the idea that these events remain unfulfilled.

I once shared more traditional views until I began to engage the narrative from a more contextual and historically grounded perspective. I understand that some do not associate the events of 70 AD with the generation Jesus directly addressed—a generation He stated would witness unprecedented events. Yet, I find that interpretation unpersuasive. It implies, in my view, that Jesus failed in His declarations and that the Apostles misled their contemporaries by urging them to remain faithful, watchful, and patient in anticipation of those events.

This reflects my personal understanding. You’re free to critique it; however, I’ve moved beyond the belief that Jesus’s coming is still future. That framework no longer resonates with me, especially in light of what I perceive to be the historical and theological coherence of a fulfilled Revelation.