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Your Opinion On Atheists

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Sisyphus Fragment, Apr 3, 2009.

  1. Sisyphus Fragment

    Sisyphus Fragment New Member

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    A few years ago, there was a survey done* that came to the conclusion that atheists were the least trusted minority in America, you can read into this that we are also flat out disliked. I'm attempting to conduct a nonscientific poll to help me understand the major reasons why this is. I've been attempting to get useful replies from general religious forums but their members seem to be more interested in bickering with each other rather than answer some of my questions. Any posts I submit turn into back and forth hate-o-thons.For those of you who dislike or are of a less than positive opinion of atheists I would like to hear your opinions on the matter. Why do people have such a problem with atheists as an entire group?For those of you who have no qualms with atheists there is no need for you to respond to defend yourselves, I only need the opinions of people offering criticism. I merely want to better understand why atheists are so negatively viewed. I'm not looking for any fights or anything like that, I'm here to seek genuine opinions and that is all. Thanks ahead of time for any replies.*http://www.mndaily.com/2009/02/22/survey-us-trust-lowest-atheists
     
  2. bethog

    bethog New Member

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    QUOTE (Sisyphus Fragment @ Apr 3 2009, 08:44 PM)
    Why do people have such a problem with atheists as an entire group?
    I stand to be corrected, but I think that it is because of a lack of knowledge. Most people, I think form their opinion on second hand information and they do not make an effort to gain first hand information. And then off cause because of a luck of mercy and compassion.
     
  3. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    I don't have any problem trusting athiests. I've found that most people that are atheists are genuine type people. I can't speak for anyone else.
     
  4. Jilli

    Jilli New Member

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    Most athiests are just normal minding-their-own-business sort of people. Good and bad, likable, unlikable...BUT there are those that make me see red (and I try very hard not too!)There are several reasons for this.1. They are just repeating over and over what they have heard from others or been bought up with and heard in their families etc. Most have never even read the bible or tried to find out for themselves what God is all about but just automatically slam everything to do with Christians or God. 2. Those who have read the bible and even claim that they used to be christians but have now given it all up as a load of rubbish are the most deceived of all because they probably were never true christians in the first place, but now think they have all the answers from both sides.3. The thing that most annoys me is the way they think that to believe in 'a bunch of fairy stories' means we are brainless clots and totally brainwashed either from birth or by some other means. It is totally incomprehensible to them that we can believe something that they cannot understand themselves.4. I cannot understand how athiests can state so firmly that GOD DOES NOT EXIST when is acutal fact no-one on earth can claim such a thing. To do so means that they know 100% of everything there is to know.5. When christians say they receive answers to prayer, leading from God, spiritual experiences from God etc and then an athiest comes along and says, Don't you realise that it is all in your own mind? Answers to prayer are just co-incidences - how silly to think you are getting actual answers from a god that does not exist....etc etc. It makes me see red to think they can tell me that what I experience and KNOW, that it is all in my mind!!! It is like someone telling me that my mother does not exist (who are they to say, what I know more about?)I hope I have answered your questions - these are my personal reasons why I feel very frustrated with athiests, those who have strongopinions and voice them. I know we are told to love our enemies, I don't consider athiests my enemies, only satan who works throughthem in getting his lies out and about.As I said, most of them are just normal, likeable people.
     
  5. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    There has to be a God in order for there to be an athiest. You cannot have one without the other. Even most athiests do not completely understand their own reasoning . It requires deep thinking , which most athiests do not care to do. They know where it will lead.A person cannot be against something that does not exist. For this reason you do not find dedicated groups who oppose belief in fairys , leprachauns , and monsters under the bed.Deep in the heart of the athiest is the knowlege of God , it is a God he does not want , thus his strong stand against it.We do it too. Even those who have deep faith will question if there really is a God . It is a normal question we return to once in a while. As beleivers , we each have our own confirmation and convincing proof and our faith grows, just as it should. But we never search our souls asking if there really is a leprachaun under the bed. Neither does the athiest.Martin W.
     
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  6. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    I find that the athiests I know have always been trustworthy. I cannot say I dislike any of them. I admire that at least they take a stand on the issue and will defend it. They often lead decent and moral lives , puts some Christians to shame actually.
    Sorry Sisyphus , I am having a hard time bashing the everyday athiest. One example does comes to mind is the Humanist athiest Dr. Henry Morgantaler who has spent his whole life opening abortion clinics all across Canada. I sure do not like him , and I sure wouldnt want to be in his shoes when he is all done on the planet and he meets the God he does not beleive in. But I do not know if he has chosen his career because he is an athiest , or because he likes the income his clinics produce. Hard to judge.I certainly do not like the scientific community and teachers of my children who leave out the Creator and claim that "nothing" went "bang" to become slime and amoeba and earthworms and squirrels and monkeys and then men. But If you confront them privately , 70% profess a beleif in God , so there again , I cannot make the claim I dislike them because they are athiests.Sorry I am not much help for your survey. Like I said , the athiests I know personally have never given me a reason to dislike them. Usually quite the opposite.Best wishes (and welcome to the forum)Martin W.
     
  7. Polar

    Polar New Member

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    "A few years ago, there was a survey done* that came to the conclusion that atheists were the least trusted minority in America, you can read into this that we are also flat out disliked." -- Fragment-- I have yet to meet an honest to goodness atheist who has been accepting of my Christian faith. And it isn't a matter of them rejecting someone witnessing to them. They have approached people who aren't even talking to them but who have a simple Christian message t-shirt and begun verbally abusing them. I think the "we are also flat out dislikes" part is mostly a self-inflicted wound. As a side note, I used to be in the Army in military intelligence (save me the oxymoron jokes) and I found scores of Mormons serving there. It was explained to me that there was a disproportionate number of Mormons in M.I. because they had the easiest time getting security clearances. Why? They are by and large honest to a fault, are extremely patriotic and supportive of our military, and their faith calls on them to be trustworthy and loyal.
     
  8. Irish

    Irish New Member

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    I don't mind atheists, but if they are dyslexic and have insomnia you will have someone Who lays awake all night wondering if there really is a dog.....


    Irish
     
  9. Samuel Pickens

    Samuel Pickens New Member

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    Many will say there are no athesist but only agnostics. They are people without God and without knowledge. I have found that if they do get enough education they will not be athesists. And, if they come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and recieve the Holy Ghost, then they will not be anything but Christian. View attachment 12
     

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  10. Redeemed22

    Redeemed22 New Member

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    To me the question is trust about what?

    If I meet an atheist, I don't doubt most of the things they say about day to day details of life. Actually, I kindof like atheists. And I love them.

    In Christianity, Christrians are taught to support each other through prayer/confession/encouragement/etc. Basically, (although the ultimate source is always God), Christians draw life from each other. Atheists are spiritually dead. It is necesary to have a hedge of protection around myself. Because an atheist isn't alive in Christ, if I depend on that person spiritually or emotionally I am drawing death from them.

    Also, if someone doesn't believe in an objective morality (which many atheists don't), despite them maybe displaying good behavior, it can be troubling to think about how that person's morals are flexible to whatever they want. Today, the atheist may have morals that fit in well with society. Tomorrow, the atheist may not. The atheist has incentives and punishments from society that generally guide his or her general behavior, but because an atheist doesn't believe in true accountability (just consequences if you get caught) it is a very easy for their morals to drift or take holidays.

    I have a healthy mistrust of all people, including myself. The where and when and effects of those mistrusts are different for different people, but never looking down upon people. I am a sinner redeemed by grace. I have no feet to stand on to look down on atheists. But I can be cautious of the particular vulnerabilites of atheists, and the particular vulnerabilities of other people.

    Redeemed
     
  11. EggsBaconandBeans

    EggsBaconandBeans New Member

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    hey.. i see that you are asking why people have a problem with atheists as a group.. i can't speak for anyone other than myself.. and with me its not with the whole group. its with each individual.. you see, just the entire disbelief this is a belief system.. and to me that makes each individual that denies God's existance a liar in my eyes. i also think that it's arogant to make such a statement, or as much as take a stand. whether or not you believe there is a God, doesn't change the fact that He exists.. but, you are saying that he doesn't, and in order to stand on that belief. you would have had to search the entire universe to see if you are right. and in doing so you would have to be god(no capital here because i am using it as you and not the real God..). which makes you a liar either way.. and by the way. just because i have a problem with your belief, doesn't mean that i don't genuinely care about you as another person, because i do.. i hope that was a help to you.. :) dale
     
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  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I tend to see atheists (group) as educated, often knowledgeable, about science, and and sometimes hostile towards people of faith. If I am not careful I can find myself threatened by their confidence and opinionated presentation, misinterpreting it as smugness or arrogance. I believe this is my prejudice, which I developed after many conversations with atheists online. In the real world, atheists have usually remained unidentified, however the people I know personally who are atheists have always been kind. In the end, atheists are just like everyone else and I am called to get past my prejudices and love unconditionally.

    Peace
     
  13. Surf Rider

    Surf Rider New Member

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    I hold that the values/premises of operation and thinking valuations/gyrations of atheists are a spitting image of mainstream Christendom. It's often extremely difficult to see any potent differentiation between the two.

    Examples? Well, let me give a bit of an introduction to them....
    Really, to sum it up, there seems to be such, well, how to say it without you thinking that I'm picking on you personally, there seems to be such hypocrisy and wickedness and spiritual/scriptur-al penury in the church, it grieves me so much and angers me so much, words fail me. Kind of like it says in the gospels of Christ, "and he, being grieved at their hardness of heart, burned with anger." I have the same response for much of the church, specifically it's leaders, but it overflows to the laity that takes authority upon themselves.
    For the rest of the laity, I am filled with compassion, for they are much like sheep without a shepherd, and are led into all sorts of things damaging and unscriptural.
    That's the summary of it, really.
    Just look at the proof of the pudding: basically the same (and some even put it higher) immorality rate, adultery rate, lying rate, homosexuality rate, etc.. Yet the church purports to have what the damned need! Preposterous in the extreme. And it seems that everyone states that their church isn't like that, but sample all the churches and the statistics basically don't fluctuate all that much. Very revealing indeed. "spots and blemishes while they feast with you." Yes, we feast with them, but either are totally ignorant of them (which is very telling of our own spiritual ineptitude), or we kind of recognize them yet insist that we can fellowship with them and not have problems with it, because "God's OK with that --- He's big enough to handle it", or whatever other reason contrary to the word of God and sound doctrine that we can come up with. And I've heard some real doozies. It's just amazing.
    It seems as though no corner has been left pure in the church. Everywhere we turn, the doctrines of demons that are expressly contrary to the blunt word of God, are fully accepted by the sequacious masses of the church. You're probably wanting some sort of example for my "harsh" statements. Here's one: "you must love yourself before you can love others or God", and ones like unto it. Amazing perversion of the truth, and an outright contradiction of a number of scriptures. But that doesn't seem to make any difference for what we will swallow hook, line, and sinker, and immediately profess that we are wise in the Lord and mature.
    And at the same time, I hear such forked tongues from almost every believer: we have victory in Christ (actually, we are more than conquerors, they say!) but out of the same mouth I hear these very words, "we are sinners just like everybody else". Those are diametrically opposed statements. Both cannot be true of a person. So much scripture states this, it's incredible, but again, we read but read not, we see but see not, we hear, but hear not.


    So for some additional examples now....
    Ask yourself this, and be completely honest before God: "When was the last time that you heard the voice of God talking to you?" And, "how often do you hear Him speak to you?"
    Test yourselves, and see whether you are actually in the faith.... "The doorkeeper opens to him, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him. For they know his voice. And they will not follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." (John 10:3-5) If you don't pass this test, you are a full liar to say that you know God and are born of Him, unless you are just a newborn in Him. Know the difference!

    example #3....
    We can’t even count to three, it seems to me. But on what basis do I say that? Fairly bold, heady, arrogant claim, isn’t it? Take Good Friday for example. “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the huge fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” If crucified on Friday, that’s one day. Friday night is one night. Saturday is 2 days. Saturday night is two nights. Sunday morning, very early is 3 days. But where, or where, is the third night? It was impossible by counting to three, that Christ was crucified on Friday. Even a child can count better than most Christians. And if we study out the law of Moses regarding the feasts, Sabbaths and High Sabbaths, we see in the gospel accounts that it mentions the high Sabbath, the Sabbath, and two preparation days during the passion account. This, too, by the law of Moses itself, proves that Christ could not have been crucified on Friday. It’s a total impossibility both by counting to three, and by the statements of the word of God regarding Sabbaths and such in conjunction with the feast week. But Christendom just insists on Friday. And considers itself to be knowledgeable of the word of God and correct in it’s beliefs. Crazy.

    example #4....
    So many state that the thief was in heaven with Christ that day that Christ died. But that is not what the word of God states. In fact, the word of God states that that is a lie. Christ, when talking with Mary in the very early morning of the first day of the week, (Sunday, right?) stated, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet gone to the Father.” If the thief had gone to heaven with Christ that day when they died, then Christ lied to Mary. In fact, the other scriptures, even the old testament scriptures, state that Christ went down into hell and was there for three days and three nights, but the Father did not let His soul see corruption. And then Christ led the captives free! He led them free. At which time He arose bodily from the grave, and saw Mary before He went to see the Father. What a powerful truth of the order of events! Astounding. But we don’t accept the truth of the word of God.

    example #5....
    We have all these bible stories that we have taught in Sunday school, and we have all these pictures in our children’s bibles. One of them is of when Joseph was in Egypt, and his brothers had come there for grain. You know the story. We all do. And we have these pictures of Benjamin as a small lad, or at the very least as a teenager, right? Show me just one single picture that has Benjamin as a full grown man. I’d bet my bottom dollar that you, too, have believed that Benjamin was but a young lad. But the scriptures state that Benjamin was a man with 10, yes count them, TEN sons when they moved to Egypt very shortly after this cup in the grain sack event! Again, we can’t even read the word of God, it seems, and accept the simple statements in it. But we tell everybody that we know God and His word, so listen right up while we tell you the truth. I beg to differ.

    example #6....
    We have so, so many believers that firmly believe that the Israelites spent 400 years in slavery. Novel concept. Paul, in Galatians, states unequivocally that God gave the commandments to Moses 430 years, yes, 430 years after He had given the promise to Abraham. But we have Isaac, Jacob, the 12 patriarchs, their offspring, and then finally the exodus, all within 430 years. And quite a few years of Abraham’s life after that promise was given. At least 50 of them. So by simple math, we see that 400 years of slavery is a mathematical impossibility. To take simple math a little further, and ignore the statement of Paul because it’s a “lie”, we have Levi, Amram, Kohath, and Moses. Count the years that those fellas lived. Let’s assume that they each impregnated their wife with their last breath. And that child was born a year later, not just 9 months later. Add it all up. And it still comes to under 400 years. So there are at least three different ways that we have the word of God state and prove that 400 years of slavery is a lie. And we even have Paul’s statement of 430 years after the promise to Abraham to the ten commandments, and yet much of Christendom still insists on believing in 400 years of slavery. And we tell everyone that we know God and His word. I beg to differ.

    example #7....
    We even have believers that state that Paul called Cretans liars, brutes, beasts. Novel.

    Shall I go on with a whole multitude of additional examples from the word of God that contradict the beliefs of many Christians? They are all such simple examples, too. Nothing wise or deep to them. Simple math. Simple dates. Simple counting to three. Simple words and statements. But they argue endlessly over prophecy, adultery, homosexuality, etc.. Words fail me.
    The church is far, far too wise and godly and righteous in their own eyes to perceive that they contradict the word of God in most of their lives and in most of what it says. The word of God says that it is false teachers, those who are spiritual fakes, who teach that which they don’t understand, leading others astray. The righteous sure don’t do such a wicked thing! Common sense. By their fruit we will accurately, openly know them. I believe the word of God. And it says that when one speaks on behalf of the Lord, but it isn’t true what he says, to not have anything to do with such a one. That we are not to look on their countenance and have pity. Even if it is a father. Or brother. Or friend. Or relative. But we can’t seem to even recognize when they speak lies against the word of God, let alone separate ourselves from them and be clean. “Do you not know that bad company corrupts good character?” I believe that one, too.
    And I believe this one, too, and therefore I live it: “And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”

    Enjoy the fall weather, y'all
     
  14. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Really, to sum it up, there seems to be such, well, how to say it without you thinking that I'm picking on you personally, there seems to be such hypocrisy and wickedness and spiritual/scriptur-al penury in the church, it grieves me so much and angers me so much, words fail me. Kind of like it says in the gospels of Christ, "and he, being grieved at their hardness of heart, burned with anger." I have the same response for much of the church, specifically it's leaders, but it overflows to the laity that takes authority upon themselves.

    And, yet Jesus loved us so much He died for our sins - even for the people you are so angry at.

    For the rest of the laity, I am filled with compassion, for they are much like sheep without a shepherd, and are led into all sorts of things damaging and unscriptural.

    What does your compassion look like?

    Just look at the proof of the pudding: basically the same (and some even put it higher) immorality rate, adultery rate, lying rate, homosexuality rate, etc.. Yet the church purports to have what the damned need!

    Umm....was the point of Jesus teachings, morality? Of course, being moral is good and important, but it was not the point of His ministry. The Good News was not to go out and preach morality. The Good News is that God loves us and now we are called to love.

    Preposterous in the extreme. And it seems that everyone states that their church isn't like that, but sample all the churches and the statistics basically don't fluctuate all that much. Very revealing indeed.

    The Church is full of sinners. The difference between the Church and the World is that we are called to love and forgive our neighbors, which IS what the World needs.

    "spots and blemishes while they feast with you." Yes, we feast with them, but either are totally ignorant of them (which is very telling of our own spiritual ineptitude),


    Ignorant of their morality? Not even on my radar - the fact is, people already know their own sin, intimately. I am called to love through service.

    or we kind of recognize them yet insist that we can fellowship with them and not have problems with it, because "God's OK with that --- He's big enough to handle it", or whatever other reason contrary to the word of God and sound doctrine that we can come up with. And I've heard some real doozies. It's just amazing.

    Well, hang on to your seat....here's another doozy - Jesus' example is to hang out with sinners. I never saw the part in the gospels were Jesus corrected all the sinners He was eating with. He simply offered them an example of acceptance and love.

    It seems as though no corner has been left pure in the church. Everywhere we turn, the doctrines of demons that are expressly contrary to the blunt word of God, are fully accepted by the sequacious masses of the church.


    Since when were people ever pure? The Church is full of forgiven sinners, who are called to love in a dieing world.

    You're probably wanting some sort of example for my "harsh" statements. Here's one: "you must love yourself before you can love others or God", and ones like unto it. Amazing perversion of the truth, and an outright contradiction of a number of scriptures. But that doesn't seem to make any difference for what we will swallow hook, line, and sinker, and immediately profess that we are wise in the Lord and mature.

    I can really tell that loving yourself is hard for you. As you know, Jesus calls us to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. We are able to love ourselves because God first loved us - but the fact is, it is a mandatory realization - we simply must realize God's love for us and love ourselves before we can truly love others. If we fail to do this....and carry around hatred for ourselves and loathing and contempt - it will certainly bleed out in our treatment of others.

    And at the same time, I hear such forked tongues from almost every believer: we have victory in Christ (actually, we are more than conquerors, they say!) but out of the same mouth I hear these very words, "we are sinners just like everybody else". Those are diametrically opposed statements. Both cannot be true of a person. So much scripture states this, it's incredible, but again, we read but read not, we see but see not, we hear, but hear not.

    Boy, I really feel the hostility and contempt in your post - as if people intentionally deceive and twist the truth. Having victory in Christ usually refers to feeling forgiven by God. Being forgiven by God does not mean that you will never sin again.

    Ask yourself this, and be completely honest before God: "When was the last time that you heard the voice of God talking to you?" And, "how often do you hear Him speak to you?" Test yourselves, and see whether you are actually in the faith.... "The doorkeeper opens to him, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. And when he puts forth his own sheep, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him. For they know his voice. And they will not follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." (John 10:3-5) If you don't pass this test, you are a full liar to say that you know God and are born of Him, unless you are just a newborn in Him. Know the difference!

    So is this based on a feeling? A thought? I am not sure how this test can be valid - everyone who is sincere is going to claim to hear the shepherd and everyone who isn't sincere is going to claim to hear the shepherd. By the way, I am secure in my relationship with God.

    So for some additional examples now....

    example #3....

    Not that I give a wink about this issue, but:

    Jesus; "celebrated Passover with his disciples probably according to the calendar of Qumran, that is to say, at least one day earlier -- he celebrated without a lamb, like the Qumran community who did not recognize the Temple of Herod and was waiting for a new temple."

    The definitive date of Jesus' crucifixion is settled by two undeniable astronomical events. The first extraordinary, recorded in the gospels, and confirmed by the written testimony of non-Biblical authors. The second quite ordinary and predictable, easily calculated and illustrated by the experts at NASA. Finally, we have the confirmation of the Jewish calendar, which confirms a Passover preparation on this very day Passover always falls on the Jewish date of Nisan 15, with preparation and seder always on Nisan 14), just as the gospels tell us. Jesus Christ was crucified at high noon, and died at 3 pm, on Friday, April 3rd, 33 AD.

    example #4....

    Matt. 27

    [sup]38[/sup]Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. [sup]39[/sup]Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads [sup]40[/sup]and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"

    Luke 23
    [sup]40[/sup]But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? [sup]41[/sup]We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

    [sup]42[/sup]Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[sup][f][/sup]"

    [sup]43[/sup]Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

    example #5....

    As far as I know, the pictures in children's Bibles are not inerrant.

    example #6....

    Wow, talk about splitting hairs! Unbelievable! Are you really serious? Is the difference between 400 and 430 years of slavery that big of an issue to you? Man, no wonder you are so bitter - sheesh. Walking around with that kind of a standard for Christians - do you really think God is going to give us all a test on Bible literacy at the last judgment and damn people for a 30 year discrepancy?

    example #7....

    Never heard of this one.

    Shall I go on with a whole multitude of additional examples from the word of God that contradict the beliefs of many Christians? They are all such simple examples, too. Nothing wise or deep to them. Simple math. Simple dates. Simple counting to three. Simple words and statements. But they argue endlessly over prophecy, adultery, homosexuality, etc.. Words fail me.

    Please don't.

    The church is far, far too wise and godly and righteous in their own eyes to perceive that they contradict the word of God in most of their lives and in most of what it says. The word of God says that it is false teachers, those who are spiritual fakes, who teach that which they don’t understand, leading others astray. The righteous sure don’t do such a wicked thing! Common sense. By their fruit we will accurately, openly know them. I believe the word of God. And it says that when one speaks on behalf of the Lord, but it isn’t true what he says, to not have anything to do with such a one. That we are not to look on their countenance and have pity. Even if it is a father. Or brother. Or friend. Or relative. But we can’t seem to even recognize when they speak lies against the word of God, let alone separate ourselves from them and be clean. “Do you not know that bad company corrupts good character?” I believe that one, too.

    You are just ranting now.......

    And I believe this one, too, and therefore I live it: “And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”

    Matt 22
    [sup]
    36[/sup]"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"[sup] 37[/sup]Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[sup]38[/sup]This is the first and greatest commandment.[sup]39[/sup]And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[sup]40[/sup]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

    Peace
     
  15. Surf Rider

    Surf Rider New Member

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    Christ was angry with them for their hypocrisy and hardness of heart. You condemn me for having the same mind as Christ, and consider yourself righteous for it and me to be spiritually deficient for it!

    How is it that you consider Christ to be wrong, and yourself right? Do you rebuke Him also?

    Just who do you think you are, Aspen?

    There is no further point in dialoging with such a one.

    I leave you to your sin.
     
  16. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Christ was angry with them for their hypocrisy and hardness of heart.

    Yes, it must have been frustrating for Jesus to talk to the Pharisees because they over identified with their doctrine and never considered His true message - love. The reason hypocrisy is even an issue is because the Pharisees were holding the people to impossible moral and liturgical and doctrinal standards, which they themselves couldn't even follow - it was their arrogant condemnation of the people that was the problem.

    You condemn me for having the same mind as Christ, and consider yourself righteous for it and me to be spiritually deficient for it!

    1. I have never condemned you.
    2. I think it is presumptious of you to claim to have the same mind as Christ.
    3. I have never commented on the state of your spiritual life.

    I think you need to check yourself. Your posts appear to have a hostile and dismissing tone.

    How is it that you consider Christ to be wrong, and yourself right? Do you rebuke Him also?

    I have not disagreed with Christ. I have pointed out that Christ cam to bring the Good News - love and forgiveness. It is true that we have a difference of opinion on the message of the gospel - I disagree with your harsh and hostile interpretation, which is much different than disagreeing with Christ.

    Just who do you think you are, Aspen?

    A child of God and a sinner who is being sanctified in a loving relationship with my Savior, Jesus Christ.

    There is no further point in dialoging with such a one.

    That is too bad, I thought we were getting somewhere!

    I leave you to your sin.

    At least you got the last word.

    Peace
     
  17. Surf Rider

    Surf Rider New Member

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    (1Co 2:14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    (1Co 2:15) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.

    (1Co 2:16) For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
     
  18. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I forgot; this thread is meant for atheists, not surf rider.........atheists, you enrich our threads and you are welcome......


    Peace
     
  19. Larry Conlley

    Larry Conlley New Member

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    "Your Opinion On Atheists"

    Cursed by God.
     
  20. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    I get bummed for the people I care about that are atheists... but I understand why they struggle... they look at the world around them and see so much pain and suffering and can't understand how a loving God could let it all happen... then they look at religions and they see war and people using the name of God for selfish gain, politics, and to manipulate people into serving their personal agendas... what that all pretty much means is the God of this world has blinded their eyes by making it look like God is responsible for the wickedness in the world... so to a lot of people they're left with believing that either there is no God or else God is evil... it's a lot less scary when faced with those two choices to go with the, "There's no God" view.

    That's why Jesus is the only way to the Father... He's the truth that sets us free... because in Christ alone we have the full revelation of the Father and when we clearly see the Father we also clearly see the ruler of this world... because of Jesus the ruler of this world is judged... all of a sudden we realize everything God gave us is good... He created the heavens and the earth and said they were good... there's nothing evil on this planet that came from God's will... everything evil in this world is caused by His creation using it's freewill to rebel against God... evil is the absence of the will of God... just like darkness is the absence of light... where God's will is perfected and all are willfully submitted to Him that's God's Kingdom... that's heaven... and when that happens on earth that's when the prayer Jesus told us to pray will be fulfilled, "Your Kingdom come... Your will be done... on earth as it is in heaven"

    Father deliver us from the evil one... and let everyone see how full of love you really are... we know it's your goodness that draws us to repentance... please protect atheists from self righteous religious hypocrites who cause offense to your name and surround them with people who love them with your Love...

    Robbie

    PS: I'm sure there might also be those that just flat out reject God... but there's no point in me talking about them... that's between them and God... I'm more concerned about the people I love that seem hurt and confused by the artist of confusion...
     
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