CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity

[brightfame52]

Spurgeon was a Calvinist. What good is that? A Calvinist quoting another Calvinist is like taking a long trip without a map.

Tulip is the Gospel and you scoff and reject it

 

[Logikos]

Tulip is the Gospel and you scoff and reject it

There's not even any partial allusion to the resurrection of Christ! How could it possibly be the gospel?! Worse, there isn't any aspect of the TULIP that's even true at all! It's just about the furthest anyone can get from the gospel and still be associated with a group of people that call themselves Christians. It ought to be scoffed at and not only rejected but avoided like the plague!

This is the gospel!.......

• God exists and is the Creator of all things and He is perfect, holy, and just.
• We, having willfully done evil things and rebelled against God, who gave us life, deserve death.
• Because God loves us, He provided for Himself a propitiation (an atoning sacrifice) by becoming a man whom we call Jesus Christ.
• Jesus, being the Creator God Himself and therefore innocent of any sin, willingly bore the sins of the world and died on our behalf.
• Jesus rose from the dead.
• If you confess with you mouth, the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. openly acknowledge your need of a savior and that He is that Savior) and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.

 

[brightfame52]

There's not even any partial allusion to the resurrection of Christ! How could it possibly be the gospel?! Worse, there isn't any aspect of the TULIP that's even true at all! It's just about the furthest anyone can get from the gospel and still be associated with a group of people that call themselves Christians. It ought to be scoffed at and not only rejected but avoided like the plague!

This is the gospel!.......

• God exists and is the Creator of all things and He is perfect, holy, and just.
• We, having willfully done evil things and rebelled against God, who gave us life, deserve death.
• Because God loves us, He provided for Himself a propitiation (an atoning sacrifice) by becoming a man whom we call Jesus Christ.
• Jesus, being the Creator God Himself and therefore innocent of any sin, willingly bore the sins of the world and died on our behalf.
• Jesus rose from the dead.
• If you confess with you mouth, the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. openly acknowledge your need of a savior and that He is that Savior) and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.

Christ died for the elect and was risen for their Justification. Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Rightglory]

"The church" whatever that undefined entity is has been repeatedly wrong throughout history precisely because fools choose to believe whatever "it" says is the truth is so by virtue of the fact that "it" said it.

Your opinion. Where has it been wrong?

I couldn't care less, one way or the other about the Nicene or any other creed and I do not care at all about what this forum endorses. I care about scripture and sound reason. Appeals to creeds or churches or anything else have no effect in regards to convincing me of anything other than that whomever is citing them may well be practicing a religion other than biblical Christianity.

Of course, that is very rational of you. Man always has more authority over scripture than the Holy Spirit who gave it to the Apostles. There are thousands with the modern day genre of Christianity that have all developed their own personal religion. You are welcome to the club.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Right back at you.

Of course you do. Your very next sentence prove it!


That's so completely not true that even you must have known it was false when you wrote this!

What percentage of the those in positions of influence within the Orthodox church feel like Homosexuals should be ministered to with compassion and understanding rather than advocating for the biblical position that such perversion should be recriminalized and that those convicted of the crime should be executed.

none

Isn't it so that the Orthodox Church believes that the death penalty contradicts "the Church's" teachings on the sanctity of life? Yes, as we do war as well. But the Church is not the enity that does either, these are temporal state issues.

How can it be that "the Church" apposes as unjust, the very thing they say saves them from sin?

And what is that?

In short, don't even pretend to think that you're going to convince me that "the church" even knows right from wrong, never mind how to rightly interpret the bible!

I'm not trying to do it, Just give you the Gospel as it has been always believed from the beginning. The Gospel that has been preserved by the Holy Spirit within Christ's Body. I Tim 3:15.

Saying it doesn't make it so!

So you say.

Where is you evidence that there were two Jesuses?

Don't have any. None exists since there never was two Jesuses. As a Christian, why did you not know this. The Incarnation of Christ is one of the hallmarks of Christianity.

I'm pretty sure that there was only One that anyone cares anything about! There was for sure only One Jesus handing on that cross!

See above.

I don't understand why anyone would bother showing up on one of these forums if they were either incapable or unwilling to produce any more depth than this.

I was thinking the same thing. You show a complete ignorance of the very basics of historical Christianity. I see very little of what you have stated so far as having anything to do with scripture, except its quotes.

I'd be either embarrassed or bored to death!

Could not have stated it better.

 

[Logikos]

Christ died for the elect and was risen for their Justification. Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Your out of context proof-texting not withstanding, if your doctrine is true, God is unjust!

God is just!

Therefore, Calvinism is false.

 

[Logikos]

Could not have stated it better.

Welcome to my seemingly ever growing ignore list!

 

[brightfame52]

Your out of context proof-texting not withstanding, if your doctrine is true, God is unjust!

God is just!

Therefore, Calvinism is false.

They all say that when given scripture to support my view, and since its true, you are calling God unjust, not wise friend.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No one is born a sinner, not Jesus, not you, not me, not anyone else. The sinner is one who has sinned and has not been regenerated.

Well no one is born a sinner because that requi9res action. but one does not become a sinner when they sin. One is born with a lost nature and when they do sin it is because it is our very nature to sin.

 

[Logikos]

They all say that when given scripture to support my view, and since its true,

David Koresh used scripture to defend his cult doctrine just like you do - the very same way that you do!
Engaging you on that basis grants you rational ground that you have not earned and that I will not grant you for free because if your doctrine is true then God is unjust, by definition, and it doesn't matter what the bible says!

you are calling God unjust, not wise friend.

I am not your friend and it is YOUR doctrine that teaches that God is arbitrary, not mine!

God IS just!

Therefore, Calvinism is false!

 

[Logikos]

Well no one is born a sinner because that requi9res action. but one does not become a sinner when they sin. One is born with a lost nature and when they do sin it is because it is our very nature to sin.

People sin because they choose to do so. It is the sin that causes spiritual death, not the other way around.

Romans 7:9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.​

 

[brightfame52]

@JBO

No one is born a sinner

Do you have a scripture that says this exactly ?

 

[brightfame52]

David Koresh used scripture to defend his cult doctrine just like you do - the very same way that you do!
Engaging you on that basis grants you rational ground that you have not earned and that I will not grant you for free because if your doctrine is true then God is unjust, by definition, and it doesn't matter what the bible says!


I am not your friend and it is YOUR doctrine that teaches that God is arbitrary, not mine!

God IS just!

Therefore, Calvinism is false!

Not interested ! And God is Sovereign in Everything, having predetermined the fates of all men before they were a speck of dust.

 

[JBO]

@JBO



Do you have a scripture that says this exactly ?

No, but then you don't have a scripture that exactly says that we are born a sinner.

And I do have scriptures that certainly reject the very concept that we are born a sinner. I can post those if you like.

 

[brightfame52]

No, but then you don't have a scripture that exactly says that we are born a sinner.

And I do have scriptures that certainly reject the very concept that we are born a sinner. I can post those if you like.

Okay then, so its your opinion, not truth

 

[JBO]

Okay then, so its your opinion, not truth

Such an ugly copout. Shoot, I can say the same thing about your entire Calvinistic Theology. It originated with Augustine in the late fourth and early fifth centuries. And it certainly is not truth. It is the herectical Gnosticism of Manicheanism carried forward by Augustine and later picked up by Calvin.

 

[brightfame52]

Such an ugly copout. Shoot, I can say the same thing about your entire Calvinistic Theology. It originated with Augustine in the late fourth and early fifth centuries. And it certainly is not truth. It is the herectical Gnosticism of Manicheanism carried forward by Augustine and later picked up by Calvin.

You made a statement that isnt found in scripture !

 

[JBO]

You made a statement that isnt found in scripture !

Yes, you are right. Calvinism isn't found in scripture.

 

[Logikos]

Not interested ! And God is Sovereign in Everything, having predetermined the fates of all men before they were a speck of dust.

Then He has predestined me to believe in free will and to repeatedly (and typically almost instantly) argue dozens (perhaps hundreds) of Calvinists into silence by merely pointing to the fact that He is just.

How in the world do you sleep at night knowing that you believe in such a pathetically flimsy doctrine that can't get past the following three syllable sentence?

GOD IS JUST!

That god you worship is immoral, bf52! There is no such thing as an immoral god that actually exists.
Repent! Drop this pagan Greek god who is immutably arbitrary!
Worship the only true God, the God who is Truth, the God who is the very personification of righteousness and justice! The God who BECAME a man and died for your sin, not because He immpassibly and arbitrarily chose you for no reason at all but because He loves you along with every other man, woman and child and chose to die to pay the price that justice required that He might offer salvation as a free gift to those who would respond to Him in faith and simply accept it.

 

[Robert Pate]

Then He has predestined me to believe in free will and to repeatedly (and typically almost instantly) argue dozens (perhaps hundreds) of Calvinists into silence by merely pointing to the fact that He is just.

How in the world do you sleep at night knowing that you believe in such a pathetically flimsy doctrine that can't get past the following three syllable sentence?

GOD IS JUST!

That god you worship is immoral, bf52! There is no such thing as an immoral god that actually exists.
Repent! Drop this pagan Greek god who is immutably arbitrary!
Worship the only true God, the God who is Truth, the God who is the very personification of righteousness and justice! The God who BECAME a man and died for your sin, not because He immpassibly and arbitrarily chose you for no reason at all but because He loves you along with every other man, woman and child and chose to die to pay the price that justice required that He might offer salvation as a free gift to those who would respond to Him in faith and simply accept it.

Excellently refuted. Unfortunately, the poor blind fool is not able to believe it.

 

[Phil .]

To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is the height of spiritual depravity. You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born. To believe that God predestinates people to hell before they are born is to believe that God is an unjust, unrighteous, unmerciful, tyrant. The Bible plainly teaches that God's people are justified by faith. They are justified by faith in God and his righteousness.

Indeed, hell as a predestined afterlife place, is psychological & emotional manipulation, child abuse, based on ignore-ance, mistaken identity, and so to speak one’s own emotional denial & suppression, which manifests as disease.